NCAA Football 2014 Thread

[gunnar hendershow]

And it shouldn't happen. Top 4 is as it should be, FSU has struggled against a lot of subparr opposition, Oregon has nearly everyone they've played, and Bama and Miss State have made it through murderer's row with only 1-loss each. Still plenty of time to go, but if 2 SEC West teams end the year with 1-loss there's no way either is missing out.

[Plubby]

And it shouldn't happen. Top 4 is as it should be, FSU has struggled against a lot of subparr opposition, Oregon has nearly everyone they've played, and Bama and Miss State have made it through murderer's row with only 1-loss each. Still plenty of time to go, but if 2 SEC West teams end the year with 1-loss there's no way either is missing out.

Which is why I talked about it purely in the context of everyone going X-2....

[Meacon Keaton]

X-gon' gibbit to ya

[The Buscher]

And it shouldn't happen. Top 4 is as it should be, FSU has struggled against a lot of subparr opposition, Oregon has nearly everyone they've played, and Bama and Miss State have made it through murderer's row with only 1-loss each. Still plenty of time to go, but if 2 SEC West teams end the year with 1-loss there's no way either is missing out.

But if everybody in the SEC West has 2 losses, there is a far better argument to be made to leave one of them out if the teams that do get in all have 1 loss. Still at this point I think Alabama is a virtual lock. Even if they lose the Iron Bowl I think they will still find their way in.

May as well enjoy the debates for now because I'd be willing to bet that within the next 5-6 years it'll be bumped up to an 8 team playoff. The contract for the playoff system runs for 12 seasons but it can always be amended. Splitting hairs over the #8 team vs. the #9 team won't be anywhere near as interesting.

[gunnar hendershow]

Well if you put it at 8 teams you have a pretty easy selection process for conference champs, as in they all get in barring some absurd upset one year. Then 3 wild card slots to the next best 3 in the country basically guarantees the 2-loss squads from the best conferences get in. It's the ideal system but, you're right, there's not a lot of intrigue in 8 vs 9. 4 vs 5 in a lot of years won't be as intriguing as it is this year since there usually aren't this many teams shaping up for a 1-loss year.

I just remember how awesome the first year of the BCS was up until Kansas State got absolutely screwed when Florida got selected to a BCS bowl ahead of them. That was also the year undefeated Tulane got shafted too. Wow we sure have some parallels if Marshall wins out.

[HailtotheYo]

If everyone in the SEC has two losses (especially if it is the either of Mizzou or UGA winning) there shouldn't be an SEC team in the 4 ...

IF Baylor and TCU both end with 1 loss - FSU remains undefeated - Oregon remains at 1 loss - OhSt remains at 1 loss YEAH, NO 2 loss SEC team should be in. Even take one of these schools away and I don't feel a 2 loss SEC team should be in.

[Meacon Keaton]

But there would be.

[Plubby]

Well if you put it at 8 teams you have a pretty easy selection process for conference champs, as in they all get in barring some absurd upset one year. Then 3 wild card slots to the next best 3 in the country basically guarantees the 2-loss squads from the best conferences get in. It's the ideal system but, you're right, there's not a lot of intrigue in 8 vs 9. 4 vs 5 in a lot of years won't be as intriguing as it is this year since there usually aren't this many teams shaping up for a 1-loss year.

I just remember how awesome the first year of the BCS was up until Kansas State got absolutely screwed when Florida got selected to a BCS bowl ahead of them. That was also the year undefeated Tulane got shafted too. Wow we sure have some parallels if Marshall wins out.

I don't agree. A mid-major team that wants to have a serious shot at BCS/Top 4 needs to go undefeated and have a relevant win. That K-State team was undoubtedly shafted (it was even in the B12) had three ranked opponents in it.

Even if you look at the 09 Fiesta Bowl that featured two mid-majors, both my Broncos (Oregon) and that TCU team (Virginia, kind of. Clemson) had wins against relevant schools in power conferences on their schedule. Marshall has set themselves up to cry foul - there's nobody on their schedule that matters. They made their bed by playing Miami (OH), Ohio and Rhode Island out-of-conference.

[gunnar hendershow]

Tulane was shafted from every major bowl and wound up going to the Liberty Bowl. Fortunately this time around Marshall, assuming they win out, is guaranteed a spot in the Cotton, Fiesta or Peach Bowl due to the Group of Five rules. They were sorely missing that in the BCS.

[Plubby]

Gee that doesn't provide an incentive for them to schedule tough out-of-conference opponents :\ dunno if I like that.

[gunnar hendershow]

It prevents them from suing the CFP and NCAA though with a blatantly easy anti-trust suit though.

[HailtotheYo]

Well if you put it at 8 teams you have a pretty easy selection process for conference champs, as in they all get in barring some absurd upset one year. Then 3 wild card slots to the next best 3 in the country basically guarantees the 2-loss squads from the best conferences get in. It's the ideal system but, you're right, there's not a lot of intrigue in 8 vs 9. 4 vs 5 in a lot of years won't be as intriguing as it is this year since there usually aren't this many teams shaping up for a 1-loss year.

I just remember how awesome the first year of the BCS was up until Kansas State got absolutely screwed when Florida got selected to a BCS bowl ahead of them. That was also the year undefeated Tulane got shafted too. Wow we sure have some parallels if Marshall wins out.

I don't agree. A mid-major team that wants to have a serious shot at BCS/Top 4 needs to go undefeated and have a relevant win. That K-State team was undoubtedly shafted (it was even in the B12) had three ranked opponents in it.

Even if you look at the 09 Fiesta Bowl that featured two mid-majors, both my Broncos (Oregon) and that TCU team (Virginia, kind of. Clemson) had wins against relevant schools in power conferences on their schedule. Marshall has set themselves up to cry foul - there's nobody on their schedule that matters. They made their bed by playing Miami (OH), Ohio and Rhode Island out-of-conference.

I have always had an issue with this line of thinking. Are they a D1 school ? Do they count more than Western Carolina or the Citadel if a "major" conference team plays them ? In a year like this if they were 9-1 and it was a BCS/Playoff hopeful West Virginia that beat them would it not be a feather in their cap in the argument ?

Yes is the answer to all of those questions ... YET, Marshall would get zero real respect (and isn't) for any of it. You can only play who is on your schedule. Schedules are made years in advance. There's a separate discussion about the "power 5" and the "group of 5" conference debate and the distance between them. The FACT remains though, is that Marshall (and Tulane originally, then Boise, etc) are all D1 schools playing D1 schedules as determined and recognized by every single writer/coach/expert/whatever there is out there. If these schools don't get a serious thought/chance to play for the national title in the division they are in, then they shouldn't count for those that are deemed worthy by virtue of "just fucking because."

I get that there's a line in the sand and that some schools truly are behind the curve and always will be for D1 football (same can be said for all levels and all sports). However, as long as they are recognized as D1 and play D1 schools at the same rate as anyone else they have every right to have a real chance at the national title. Unless the NCAA steps in (LOL I KNOW RIGHT) and actually designates them differently, OR whatever method of deciding a championship doesn't give "worthy" schools credit for beating them as they do now ... they have ever right and deserve a chance just like anyone else.

And who they put on their schedule isn't entirely up to them either ... just ask Boise, right ? Marshall has tried, just like they did ... and going forward only NCST, Pitt, Purdue have agreed from P5 conferences. I wonder why that is ?

*this is speaking to an undefeated "not worthy" school regardless of who they've played (and I see a LOT of their opponents on SEC schedules this season ... case in point)

[DMN in the House]

Not all teams are created equal, nor are all schedules. Going undefeated in college football is not the end all, be all, because of the disparity in schedules.

[Maxx]

Yeah, but you can't have a D-1 school have the best possible record they can have and still have no chance for playing for a national championship, it's just not fair when they only have so much control over who they play out of conference.

[DMN in the House]

There are plenty of Power 5 schools that would play them. Yeah, West Virginia avoids Marshall like the plague whenever they're good, but most of the PAC-12, ACC, or Big 10 would play them.

Just because you can't play who you want doesn't mean you get a free pass to not play anyone.

[gunnar hendershow]

The issue of schedules being made years in advance is something that this current system will have trouble addressing. I completely agree with the sentiment that in large ways you have to go by how good their opposition is this year. But that shouldn't be as high a consideration as whether or not they beat everyone in their way. When you get into separating teams that lost a game, the tiebreakers absolutely should be "who did they lose to?" and "who did they beat?". But when someone's undefeated you don't have to ask that question, and unless there wind up being 5 undefeateds at season's end it makes all the sense in the world that an undefeated should be in the final four.

But the "group of 5" took a deal that basically admitted their inferiority and the NCAA and CFP were ecstatic about it since it means more money for them and no lawsuit from the "group of 5".

[Meacon Keaton]

I avoided the...umm "bigger" games this week, because I want to make some money damn it.

I have Northwestern beating Purdue by more than 3.

Illinois losing to Penn State by less than 7. Or winning outright of course.

Cincy beating UConn by more than 11.

And Vandy losing to Mississippi State by less than 28.

That's my longshot for the weekend.

[HailtotheYo]

Not all teams are created equal, nor are all schedules. Going undefeated in college football is not the end all, be all, because of the disparity in schedules.

Correct, but you also can't burn them at both ends of the candle. You can't crucify the Boise's of the world for not playing anyone if nobody will play them.

Hell, Boise DID manage to schedule some finally and they didn't even give them the chance .... they tossed them in the bowl against the other team just like them in TCU. (and before that they did it, even beating 10-3 Org State in the process but didn't get the shot).

There are plenty of Power 5 schools that would play them. Yeah, West Virginia avoids Marshall like the plague whenever they're good, but most of the PAC-12, ACC, or Big 10 would play them.

Just because you can't play who you want doesn't mean you get a free pass to not play anyone.

Yet, they aren't .... if there's that many out there willing to do so, then why aren't they getting the games ? And please, let's not pretend like a win over the Tx Tech, Wazzu, and Kentucky's of the world are going to do anything for them.

So who exactly are they supposed to play ?

But the "group of 5" took a deal that basically admitted their inferiority and the NCAA and CFP were ecstatic about it since it means more money for them and no lawsuit from the "group of 5".

Honestly there was no choice.

And this only points to exactly what I'm talking about. There IS a clear division BUT the Power 5 (and media and fans) want to call both heads and tails on the coin flip. FAU and Southern Miss are good enough to work for Alabama but NOT for Marshall. That's right, two common opponents and the results are pretty damn similar ... Bama won those two games (both at home) 93-12, while Marshal won them 98-33 (one on the road). This week Marshall plays the UAB team that played MissST to a 47-34 game in week two in Starskville. What if they demolish them like they have everyone else ? Marshall isn't just beating their schedule they're beating it like top teams do. They're beating schools in a much more impressive fashion than the "plenty of Power 5 schools that would play them" that DMN was talking about.

BUT, they get no credit for it .... because CUSA. Even though CUSA is good enough to be a "D1 program" and count equally into those 9/10 win 0/1 loss "power" schools.

Either they're on equal footing or they aren't. Either they count or they don't.

[DMN in the House]

More than just Wazzu out of the PAC-12 would play them. Unfortunately for them, the majority of the PAC-12 South (the best division in football) would defeat them.

You claim that no one is willing to play them, but how true is that? I don't really know, because I'm not their AD, but I suspect that it's a case of them not getting the games against Power 5 teams that they want, not that they're unable to get any game at all.

I will admit it's worse for Marshall than Boise, due to conference (the Mountain West is superior to C-USA) and location, as teams in the west seem more open to playing anyone.

EDIT: And they clearly aren't on even footing, and never have been, so I don't see why this is a thing now when you weren't complaining about it pre-BCS. Before that, teams like Marshall had no shot at even playing in a top tier bowl game, which they do now. The closest thing to it was BYU in, '85?, and they were an independent.

[HailtotheYo]

More than just Wazzu out of the PAC-12 would play them. Unfortunately for them, the majority of the PAC-12 South (the best division in football) would defeat them.

You claim that no one is willing to play them, but how true is that? I don't really know, because I'm not their AD, but I suspect that it's a case of them not getting the games against Power 5 teams that they want, not that they're unable to get any game at all.

I will admit it's worse for Marshall than Boise, due to conference (the Mountain West is superior to C-USA) and location, as teams in the west seem more open to playing anyone.

EDIT: And they clearly aren't on even footing, and never have been, so I don't see why this is a thing now when you weren't complaining about it pre-BCS. Before that, teams like Marshall had no shot at even playing in a top tier bowl game, which they do now. The closest thing to it was BYU in, '85?, and they were an independent.

1 - Pre BCS they had a much better shot, AND there was no EWB discussion pre-BCS. It started in 1998 and the Bowl Coalition/Alliance was before that ... However, I have ALWAYS been a proponent of everyone having a shot, always. I cried foul at the BCS bullshit from day one .... didn't have to before the Coalition/Alliance because it was actually possible for a WAC or Big West or Independent to be in the picture (of course the wealth of "good" teams was also much more evenly spread up to the early 90's as well).

Marshall is quite a bit better than UTSA .... a team that should have beaten Arizona (I was at that game). It's easy to sit here and armchair this into next week but looking at who they've played and how they've won I can easily stat the case that the Pac12 South is nothing more than the ACC in any given year (a bunch of good teams with no real top end team save for FSU if they're on). That's beside the point anyway.

No, the teams that would matter AREN'T going to play them because they don't want to give up the 1m$+ home dates early in the season. That's been an issue for a decade now. The only way Boise got games was to play at "neutral" sites in Baltimore and Georgia. Forget a home and home (or even a 2 for 1 that both Boise and Utah pitched at one point to both Nebraska and I believe UGA). Wazzu and those types aren't going to schedule them because they can't afford to get caught on one of what might be 3 to 5 possibilities for a win each season. Looking forward at the future schedules and the bigger Power 5 schools are starting to use their one true flex date on either another big Power 5 or a Wazzu type from a Power 5 (and even the AAC) in order to make themselves look better. The divide is only getting bigger. Hell Mark Richt just came out a few days ago saying how important the FCS games are to the FCS schools (which he's partly right) and how he thinks ALL of the FBS schools should have at least 1 on the schedule every year (eliminating a possible Group of 5 chance at "a good team" on the schedule).