College Football 2009 Season thread~!

[Blaze09]

There has been an overreaction to the Buckeyes game. Navy isn't terrible and the system they play causes certain problems, as do their offensive lineman too. Not to mention Tressel let the back-up play a good deal to get in some reps and he was downright brutal. And all of this goes along with how Tressel plays against most teams.

This is what I was going to say. It's just a overreaction, the USC game should be good.

And nothing is better than watching your brother play on TV, nothing.

[ACCBiggz]

Cincinnati played better than I expected even though I figured they'd take care of business against Rutgers. The game @ Oregon State should be a ton of fun.

'Canes @ 'Noles! Always intense, but I don't like it as season opener... put it back in October like the good ol' times.

[ACCBiggz]

Florida State has at least 4 more losses coming this season, including BYU and Florida dropping 50+ on that absolute pathetic secondary defense. The better team won tonight, and FSU had chances if they had changed defense at anytime. Miami picked up those blitz packages easily, they started from too far out giving Harris even more time, and the scheme gave them way too many good match-ups of LB's on playmakers.

I hated the formation on the final two plays, should have went spread w/ option to run if hole presented itself. Being bunched like that hurt them imo. After watching the secondary I don't see how BYU doesn't drop 50 on them at home, and I think we all know Florida is going to kill them in Tebow's final home game.

Moreover, I'll signal this as the biggest blow to FSU's return to the top ten annually. Losing to Miami in this game is a HUGE blow to recruiting and will only put Miami over the top and send them back to national prominence while FSU struggles to regain a foothold and sees them fail time and time again. Randy Shannon should have a title contender in 2-3 years; possibly even next year depending on recruiting class and schedule. The start to this season is too brutal for both Miami and FSU, especially The U. Next season could see a more mature team exploit others and run through a mundane ACC to claim a title bid.

[HailtotheYo]

I share the frustration. Even with a 7th grade performance from the secondary, FSU had SEVERAL chances to put their foot on Miami's throat and they didn't do it.

However, I see this Defense as a very close incarnation to the 2006 team though. VERY YOUNG, but actually a bit faster if that's possible. The difference here though, is that the offense is shit-tastic. Ponder is a very good QB, and the O-Line is actually a plus for the first time in 5 years. That '06 defense grew very nicely and very quickly that year. Now some of those guys are the hold overs that are the vets to a whole new group of outstanding talent (like they were in '06). Add that to an offense that has finally shed the Chris Rix syndrome and I'm not quite ready to flag a 5/6 loss season just yet. GT/UF are the only games that "scream" loos right now. BYU, potentially ugly (provo is not a good place to be for a struggling team), but in all honesty I don't know that they'll handle the athleticism/scheme all that well. They've historically done poorly against drastic differences from their opposition.

It was very telling, but FSU was just as close to being very good in that game as they were bad. Two blown coverages produced 14pts for Miami. Those kinds of things are easily fixed.

moving on =

Ohio St - the reason I laugh and point at that, is becase that is the exact thing that has bitten Tressel (and the Buckeyes) in the ass before. When you're playing a decent side, you don't give them an inch, ever. Overreaction ? I don't really think so. Ohio St didn't adjust anything until it was damn near too late. People, you do realize that Navy was going for 2 to tie the game with a minute left right ? They aren't good enough to do have the attitude that they do. Pryor is great, but he's still only a sophomore and he's going to hurt you a couple times in a big way (see Juice Williams for example/reference). If that wasn't a wake up call, they could be looking at 3 losses down the road.

BYU - While always a fantastic "football team" the fact, is that they're not there skill wise yet. If they want to be legit title contendors/hopefuls, they've got a few years of recruiting left to do in order to continually battle the OK's/etc of the world. That's what it's going to take to get the job done. That said, I don't think it's their biggest problem. TCU/Utah are. It sucks horridly that these three schools are essentially playing for one shot and one shot only. Combined with Boise St, these three schools are their own worst enemies. Only one can possibly go undefeated and that has to happen for any of them to "get there." However, if the trend keeps up and the only losses these guys have are too each other .... shit's going to change. Anybody else for Boise joining the MWC and them getting a BCS bid ? I'd love it.

Random Thoughts:

Really, scheduling against FCS (1-AA) schools shouldn't be allowed. Don't give me the "money/exposure/opportunity" crap as a rebuttle. It's a joke. I played small college ball and I know what it's like to sit in at halftime, and then after the game when you've played in one of those games. Do you really think that any of the players/coaches give a flying fuck about a paycheck ? Sure, the athletic department wigs back at the University love it but they're the last people that have any involvement in the game. It's embarrasing, and honestly more so for the Florida's of the world. There is however, a flip side to that debate. Just ask Michigan, or Virginia. App St and William/Mary are two very good football schools in 1-AA. There is some viability to the LACK of a gap between the playoff caliber 1-AA schools and the lower end of 1-A teams. I can tell you that there is no gap, and that there are upwards of 20 1-AA schools that could regularly compete and be successful in more than one 1-A conference. There are also upwards of 20 1-A schools that would be simply average in 1-AA. So there is at least a measure of respect for the Virginia's and Michigan's that at least scheduled a quality opponent. However, in the scoreline and ever critical public eye ... you'd rather see a loss to Midd Ten St or UL-Monroe .... especially when said loss will never be on the road.

Edited September 8, 2009 by HailtotheKing

[ACCBiggz]

If they want to be legit title contendors/hopefuls, they've got a few years of recruiting left to do in order to continually battle the OK's/etc of the world.

BYU's title hopes took a hit last night. But I disagree, because much like their last Nat'l Title run... they just need peices to fall into place. Ranked in the top 20, beat a top team, then have a couple big games yet to play. They could have faced a top 15 team in FSU. Then you have other peices - OSU/USC knocking one off, OSU/PSU potentially, UT/OkSU, UF/Bama, USC/Cal. Just by those losses alone that would move them into the top five. Again, for BYU to get a shot like they did back then, same thing has to happen - a perfect puzzle, which is not all that hard to see happening from recent memory - and from their remaining schedule of FSU/TCU/Utah they could have had 3 ranked team wins. I think from your post you are bringing a consistency argument, which I think for programs like BYU just aren't there. Utah and Boise might say otherwise to my argument, but I think programs like those won't be able to stay up there consistently, maybe one or two years, then drop off, then come back for another small run.

If FSU had won last night, I think BYU actually had a good outside shot of making the title game this season because their biggest threat they just took out. (Then of course you would probably see them tore apart in the title game, but they'd be there )

Anybody else for Boise joining the MWC and them getting a BCS bid ?

Not in the near future, but at some point I see every major conference going to 12 teams for the extra millions of conference championships. Which would see the "Pac-12" basically have their pick of two west coast programs to come in (I would think one would be reserved for Fresno State). But in theory I think they - MWC w/ BSU - could be just as strong as the Big East (although they are starting to perform a lot better w/ even more teams coming along like UConn).

Really, scheduling against FCS (1-AA) schools shouldn't be allowed. Don't give me the "money/exposure/opportunity" crap as a rebuttle.

It's not really a rebuttle as much as just explaining why they take/make the games. The D-1A school gets an extra home game with millions in revenue, while the D-1AA school gets a sizeable check to help expand their program and doesn't hurt them in their respective division.

Do you really think that any of the players/coaches give a flying fuck about a paycheck ?

100% the coaches do. And I have known some of the players and they love it, because they get a chance to play on those big time fields against top level talent and challenge themself against the best. So they aren't against the games either. I would venture to say 95% of the "stories" I've heard from them have been postitive about the experience of stepping on the field(s) of those programs and experiencing what it was like. But yeah, the coaches (at least a majority) do give a "flying fuck" about that large paycheck.

Edited September 8, 2009 by ACCBiggz

[Vendetta]

This just in..Earlier today President Obama declared Tallahassee a state of Emergency after a hurricane wiped out the Seminole Nation late Monday Night.

[HailtotheYo]

BYU's title hopes took a hit last night. But I disagree, because much like their last Nat'l Title run... they just need peices to fall into place. Ranked in the top 20, beat a top team, then have a couple big games yet to play. They could have faced a top 15 team in FSU. Then you have other peices - OSU/USC knocking one off, OSU/PSU potentially, UT/OkSU, UF/Bama, USC/Cal. Just by those losses alone that would move them into the top five. Again, for BYU to get a shot like they did back then, same thing has to happen - a perfect puzzle, which is not all that hard to see happening from recent memory - and from their remaining schedule of FSU/TCU/Utah they could have had 3 ranked team wins. I think from your post you are bringing a consistency argument, which I think for programs like BYU just aren't there. Utah and Boise might say otherwise to my argument, but I think programs like those won't be able to stay up there consistently, maybe one or two years, then drop off, then come back for another small run.

I completely undertsand what you're saying, and don't completely disagree with you. However, it is impossible to compare the National Title team from BYU to this BYU team (or any of the Boise St/TCU's of the world today) because of one thing. The BCS. It completely removes any comparison because the qualification for the National Title are on opposite poles now. BYU has to qualify for the game, which as we've seen, is virtually impossible for said schools. Before, you just had to be in the top 5/6 going into your Bowl game, and THEN have things fall into place. I mean, they beat 6-5 Michigan in the Holiday Bowl (by a mere 7 points) to "clinch" the title. They were also the only "major" undefeated team going into the Bowls, #2 Oklahoma lost, and #3 Florida wasn't in a bowl game due to NCAA probation stemming from 107 violations (and were ineligible for the national title anyway).

I agree though with your basic assesment. The problem with it, is that the remaining "big games" they have to play are mostly against the other schools just like them. FSU losing does take a chunk out of their outside chance. The fact still remains though, that TCU/Utah are the same exact team as them. I bring up the consistency partly because that's exactly what it is going to take as long as there are 3-5 "good" schools outside of the BCS conferences. Although, TCU has been good since 2000. 6 Top 25's (high of #7), and that's final not pre-season ranking. Utah has been good since '03 and has 3 top 25 final rankings with a high of #2 (also a 4th). BYU themselves has been a quality program for decades. Boise St ... well they've only been raping people since '02 but they're well documented. What these four teams have in common though, is that the "bulk" of their "big wins" are against each other. The MWC triangle kills itself, and Boise St gets in the mix in the bowl games against TCU. It's one thing for LSU to go 9-3, win the SEC Title and get in the Sugar Bowl. No one thinks twice about it because the Georgia, Florida, and Auburn teams they lost to are "good." I'm not saying the MWC is comparable to the SEC, but I'm merely making the point that a 10-2 (and as we've seen recently 12-0) one of the schools I'm talking about, isn't even regarded as highly as that 9-3 SEC Champion LSU squad. The point about bringing in Boise St into the MWC, is that it can help to get rid of the argument. You'd have 4 quality schools and no way to discount their seasons anymore. At the very least they'd be playing 3 big names each season. The fact, is that these four schools HAVE consistently won but are still on the outside looking in. All four have also been in a game with a "big time" team and won.

Not in the near future, but at some point I see every major conference going to 12 teams for the extra millions of conference championships. Which would see the "Pac-12" basically have their pick of two west coast programs to come in (I would think one would be reserved for Fresno State). But in theory I think they - MWC w/ BSU - could be just as strong as the Big East (although they are starting to perform a lot better w/ even more teams coming along like UConn).

The MWC w/Boise would be better (at least at the top) than the Big East. Rutgers was everybody's sweetheart to start this year and they shit the bed. Granted, Cincy is a very good team but are they really any better than the four teams I've mentioned ? I personally think they'd fit right in that bunch. However, they just got there in the last two years. Who else in the Big East is really all that good ? Louisville is suffering the "few year" yo-yo that you talked about earlier. Pitt is dangerous but still hasn't put it together. WV ? They always look good but always blow up too. They're one of the best teams to not really do anything in the last 10 years. South Florida is on the rise but has shown that they're not ready yet.

Boise St to the MWC was just a statement to show what I was talking about. In reality I think the final solution will be more towards what you described. There's a need for and something will be done about the BCS, AND conference title games. Not even all the BCS conferences have one. Ask Penn St how fair that is. At least for the conferences with an automatic slot, there has to be a complete leveling of the "chances" to help or hinder your team. Considering the conferences with the title games won't be sacrificing that revenue for the life of their university, I can't help but see title games for all of the automatic conferences (which undoubtedly will mean expansion). This would also give the MWC a chance to convert itself to a BCS conference. Poach Boise St and Fresno St. Screw it. That'd be great. Whatever the make up, I don't see these BYU/TCU/Utah/Boise St's being out of the picture too much longer (relatively speaking of course).

It's not really a rebuttle as much as just explaining why they take/make the games. The D-1A school gets an extra home game with millions in revenue, while the D-1AA school gets a sizeable check to help expand their program and doesn't hurt them in their respective division.

I know exactly what it does. I also think it's a flat out joke that a school like UF is allowed take in revenue for playing a school such as Charleston Southern. There is absolutely no way you can justify to me (from the UF perspective) that they should be awarded the revenue they get for playing a school like that. In the case of Florida it only presents opportunities for high caliber players to get hurt for literally nothing. What does that game do for the team ? Their season ? Nothing. While not nearly enough, they are penalized for it in the BCS. So how do they gain anything at all from it ? The revenue they got for the Charleston Southern game is BARELY a drop in the bucket to the Gator football team. It wasn't even on National Television.

Charleston Southern didn't even get on National Television. Sure, some quick highlights of the WORST parts of their performance, but that's it. Yeah they got a nice check, lovely. The players and coaches don't get anything out of a game like that. By the end of the season they'll have wasted at minimum three weeks simply for the paychecks. They'll also be playing Miami and South Florida. In total they'll get 1.3 million dollars. That's absolutely fantastic .... in 5 to 10 years from now. The money these kids and coaches generated by agreeing to be ass raped with no lube will undoubtedly help the entire athletic program in due time. Lovely, the people that took the beating don't even get all the money. That in itself is crap. Moreover though, Charleston Southern has wasted three dates on its schedule for this. There is a point where competition becomes so far out of reach that it isn't beneficial. This is exactly what that is. When the players/coaches you're up against are that much better than you, you can't even take anything from the game. You don't improve. So Charleston Southern will have a minimum 3 week handicap for this season. Sorry, but sitting in the locker room after that and the feeling you get as an athlete ... having a coach talk to you about how the weight room will be improved thanks to the sacrifice you made just doesn't seem to smooth it over, I know. Not because I've talked to some players but because I've been there. The guys on this team will feel great about what they did, in 5-10 years. Right now though they're embarrased as all hell and feel like dogshit. It's going to happen 2 more times this year. It'll happen next year too. But hey, put a smile on your face because the volleyball team will look hot in their shorts on the new elliptical machines.

I understand certain things have to happen for schools to grow, evolve, and move up. But just take a look at Troy. They were the first in the recent era to do this. They played these games, took the ass whippings, and the paychecks. Now they're a 1-A school that has a couple of "big upsets" to their name. Overall ... are they REALLY any better off than when they were a consistent Top 10/National Championship 1-AA school ? Arguably their talent isn't much, if any better. How much more coverage do they really get outside of the 1-2 early season games ? Is going to the New Orleans Bowl really any better than playing for the 1-AA National Title ? Expense wise at least, it isn't. Troy lost money taking their team to New Orleans. Of course, it's all relative and up to your own personal opinion. I see things a bit differently because I've been the guys from Charleston Southern. Simply stating that the players/coaches don't give a flying fuck was more dramatic effect than actual statement. In the long run, sure they love what they were able to do for the school. It hurts just as much though, to take the beating and then know that you won't be anywhere near 90% of what that money pays for in order to enjoy the fruits of that unecessary labor.

Edited September 9, 2009 by HailtotheKing

[DMN in the House]

The Pac 10 will never add a Boise or Fresno because their not good enough, academic wise.

[HailtotheYo]

I don't see how they can talk (in terms of football academics). The Pac10 has put four teams in the bottom ten of BCS schools in terms of APR (academic progress rate). The last release ended with the 07'08 season and is a four year compilation.

ncaa APR report

click the link and then hit 2009 data in the middle of the page and you can look up any school.

[DMN in the House]

I'm talking overall, not just athletic team wise. All the Pac 10 schools are either large state schools or private schools, a majority are research schools, and at least three are traditionally considered among the top non-Ivys. Just from knowing how Cali works, Fresno would never get in, its a second tier state school, a CS, not a UC.

[HailtotheYo]

I have to admit a bit of a 'wow' on this one. I knew the Cal schools were quite good, but not THAT good. I checked into the US/News & World report for 09/10 and holy crap. Kudos for the rankings there. Had no idea they were that high up the list.

That brings up an interesting discussion though. With the schools' of the Pac-10 being that highly rated, yet the academics as broken down by football are on the other end of the scale (at least for BCS schools) ... hhhhhmmm. I know that other conferences are probably like this too so I'm not just pointing to the P10. We just happent to be talking about them.

With the money involved (and potential revenue gained) due to football, would the Pac10 really shut out a Boise St or Fresno St based on "low academic standard" ? I mean, when they can throw that argument back at them in terms of the football scores ? That's a rather interesting. I could see them doing what other conferences have done and have everything go through, but have the new members be probationary and have a timeline to meet a certain criteria, or show a certain amount of improvement in that area. As much as they do, they don't have a leg to stand on with that. It's weird. I wonder how the NCAA would handle that kind of situation. Very interesting.

[ACCBiggz]

With the money involved (and potential revenue gained) due to football, would the Pac10 really shut out a Boise St or Fresno St based on "low academic standard" ?

25 years ago I would say yes, but in today's world (considering Pac-10 is merely a athletic affliation) I would say they will not shut out such teams. I think they'll weigh in proxemity (which is why Fresno has always been mentioned) as well as what they bring to the table (FS also brings baseball to the table). Again, they might not take them but take a couple others. After class I'll take a look at the landscape and put together a shortlist of teams that could be thought about.

The millions and millions of dollars they stand to gain in the future is what changes opinions of the board members. And as I said, I personally believe it'll happen within 10 years.

I have to admit a bit of a 'wow' on this one. I knew the Cal schools were quite good, but not THAT good.

Yeah, yes they are.

[HailtotheYo]

(considering Pac-10 is merely a athletic affliation) I would say they will not shut out such teams.

Exactly. That's how I don't see the academic standard even being a point in the debate. How can you exclude when (in the context of the affiliation) you're no better ? Hell, to me it would seem like the perfect opportunity for adding revenue, adding to the conference, and getting yet another leg up on the recruits (using the academic advantage of the schools).

[ACCBiggz]

The Pac-12 Shortlist - This is strictly for a geographical point of view.

Boise State

BYU

Fresno State

Hawaiʻi

Idaho

Nevada

New Mexico

New Mexico State

San Diego State

San Jose State

UNLV

Utah

Utah State

Now let's narrow it down by... semi-respectable football programs:

Boise State

BYU

Fresno State

Hawaiʻi

Nevada

New Mexico

Utah

Let's narrow them down via HttK's US New University rankings (Including Pac-10):

Boise State (57)

BYU (71)

Fresno State (38)

Hawai'i (NA)

Nevada (NA)

New Mexico (NA)

Utah (126)

Arizona State (121)

Arizona (102)

Washington (42)

Washington State (106)

Cal (21)

USC (26)

Oregon State (NA)

Oregon (115)

Stanford (4)

UCLA (24)

Final Shortlist (Shocking ):

Boise State

BYU

Fresno State

Exactly. That's how I don't see the academic standard even being a point in the debate.

As I said, 25 years ago I would probably side with DMN on this discussion. But the landscape of sports, in general, has changed drastically. That's why I feel strongly that they'll go to 12 teams in the next 10 years, much like the Big Ten will. And in my opinion the Big Ten has always been waiting on NBC to not renew their deal with Notre Dame (2015 now). However, if by chance they get pushed to expand before that then they have been rumored to have been looking at Pitt as their #2. Both make sense, although Notre Dame makes 1000% more sense from all angles, and the Big East will get the left overs which is fine with them.

[DMN in the House]

I'm not saying it would be a bad thing to add them, not at all. I'm just throwing the traditional PAC 10 reasons on the table.

[HailtotheYo]

Final Shortlist (Shocking ):

Boise State

BYU

Fresno State

Exactly. That's how I don't see the academic standard even being a point in the debate.

As I said, 25 years ago I would probably side with DMN on this discussion. But the landscape of sports, in general, has changed drastically. That's why I feel strongly that they'll go to 12 teams in the next 10 years, much like the Big Ten will. And in my opinion the Big Ten has always been waiting on NBC to not renew their deal with Notre Dame (2015 now). However, if by chance they get pushed to expand before that then they have been rumored to have been looking at Pitt as their #2. Both make sense, although Notre Dame makes 1000% more sense from all angles, and the Big East will get the left overs which is fine with them.

Ha, well look at that. Good breakdown. Shocking results LOL.

I know all the talk about ND and the Big 10(1) ... but really they make more sense in the Big East to me simply on the standpoint that all of their other sports are members of the Big Easy. Rivalry wise it's Big 10 but certainly there'd be some heavy crap coming down the mountain if ND wants to jump ship to the Big 10 and shaft the Big East in every other sport they compete in. That would be rather fun to watch unfold. Sadly, I don't know that NBC will stop renewing. I mean, the perfect time to dump them was a couple of years ago. Now (while I'm not saying it'll happen) the pieces are in place for ND to warrant its status as "ND" ... and keep NBC wanting them solo. Honestly I think ND should be forced to head to either the Big 10 or East regardless of the NBC deal. How is it that the NCAA allows them to leach the Big East in all sports but then bends over backwards for concessions for them for football. Horseshit. If Army goes undefeated (or gets a top #8 ranking) they don't have any BCS promises or ties. I know I know, I'm just making a baseline point.

Personally I'd love to see them take Iowa St the fuck out of the Big 12 so we can add TCU but I know that's a pipedream.

I feel the next 10-15 years is going to have some major shifting going on. I'm glad I'm going to be around to see it.

[HailtotheYo]

LOL Ok St .... bwahahahahahaha

[Mr Evil Guy]

exciting notre dame/michigan game

it was pretty rad(assuming it's like over now aha)

[Meacon Keaton]

Fucking hell, Charlie. We have the lead. We need to KILL THE CLOCK! Why, in fuck's sake would you throw the ball on two consecutive plays? Horrible playcalling by the "Offensive Genius". Pathetic holding calls brought back one touchdown and a handful of big plays. All-in-all, the Notre Dame Fucking Irish may very well kill me this year.

[JStarr]

LOL Ok St .... bwahahahahahaha

Case Keenum's a fucking stud, but still...yeah. What he said.

And every Notre Dump loss is music to my eyes, especially a freshman making himself an instant folk hero with 11 seconds left. Beautiful.