The 2010 NFL Thread

[Evil Chase K]

One cop has already resigned because of his involvement in this debacle. Another is being investigated. If you really, truly believe nothing happened than why are "innocent" men losing their jobs over it?

The cop from Georgia had to resign because he said something in his report about the girls being drunk. He also apparently yelled at the accuser because she wasn't talking. He said that her friends were the one reporting the rape, not the girl. And it pissed him off.

As for the Pittsburgh cop, he hasn't lost his job. He's being investigated.

But seriously, who are we going to believe...a bunch of drunk girls, or completely sober police officers?

I sincerely hope you aren't saying it's OK for a dude to force himself on a woman because she was horny when she left her house, or may have made out with him before changing her mind. If you are, then you're basically OKing date rape and saying that the only time a woman can actually be raped is if some hooded guy clubs her over the head and drags her into an alley.

I never said that, and I never meant that.

What I was saying was that there's evidence that she was indeed consenting to what was going on and that she in fact was seeking out some kind of sexual contact.

If she changed her mind and Ben still forced himself on her then he is a scumbag who should not be playing in the NFL. But there is no evidence to suggest that that is what happened here.

I don't think you'd be this vehement in your support of someone who can't keep his dick in his pants when he's drunk if he QB'd for the Ravens or any other team. Just to prove that I'm objective and willing to throw anyone under the bus for moronic behavior, when Plaxico shot himself in the leg I wanted him off the team because he's a moron. They should have tossed Pierce too, and both of those guys got off lightly considering Plax should be doing 3 1/2 years in prison and Pierce should have been charged with carrying a loaded gun across state lines. Let's keep in mind Plax caught the game winning pass in the SB, the Giants were 11-1 and the favorites to repeat as champs AND he was our only red zone option when he chose to ruin the franchise and I still wanted him gone. Sometimes it's OK to not try to defend the indefensible simply because the guy wears the jersey you root for.

I don't think Plax should've gotten the time he did. I feel like he was used as an example.

Conversely, I remember people here defending Donte Stallworth. I feel like he should not be playing in the NFL.

I would be lying if I said I wasn't defending Ben so vehemently because he's a Steeler. If it was someone else I likely would not care enough to defend him.

But I think it's clear from reading the police report that the media is only reporting one side of the story and as a result making Ben look worse than he should.

[sahyder1]

Of course the media is going to report the Big Ben angle. He's the public figure...not her. Again, it doesn't matter what she did or did not want. As a 28 year old starting Quarterback in the NFL and being a public figure you just can't be that stupid. If he thinks he's unfair he should pack his bags, give back his signing bonus and go live in some obscure town somewhere. You can't have it both ways. I don't know who it was that was defending Stallworth but it certainly wasn't me and I have hard time believing that Naiwf would say something like that as well.

Edited April 17, 2010 by sahyder1

[Evil Chase K]

No Big Ben has not led them to 2 Super Bowls. He did just about everything he could to lose in that first one.

Yawn. Do we really wanna go there again? The Steelers got to the Super Bowl that year because they rode Ben's arm offensively. Without Ben, their offensive strategy of run, run, run, punt that failed them all those years prior under Cowher would have failed them again.

Why shouldn't the NFL take a stand? They have a $6 billion business to protect especially going into a year where they could potentially be a lockout. If I was betting on it I would say that Big Ben will not be on the Steelers roster when the season starts. If the Steelers had no intention of trying to deal him they would've kept their mouths shut and just said that they would let the commish handle the situation.

I would take you up on that bet so bad.

The Rooneys might be mad, but they are not stupid. Getting rid of Ben is the dumbest fucking thing I've ever heard.

And no, they wouldn't keep their mouth shut because the only reason they even had that press conference was because of the rumors that they were trading Ben.

They said nothing at the press conference to indicate they were going to get rid of Ben. In fact Rooney's quote that was something to the effect of "We are going to give Ben every opportunity to win back his teammates, our staff, and this city," is a pretty strong indicator that they're not going to get rid of him.

Edit: Adding to what Naiwf said, The Mara (and for that matter the Tisch) family does business the same old school way that the Rooneys do. That Plaxico move got a lot of respect in this market and this is NYC.

Plaxico isn't a franchise QB. The Steelers got rid of their problem WR. Ben is a different story. It took them almost 30 years to replace Terry Bradshaw. They won't forsake their future for one incident.

They're not stupid.

Of course the media is going to report the Big Ben angle. He's the public figure...not her. Again, it doesn't matter what she did or did not want. As a 28 year old starting Quarterback in the NFL and being a public figure you just can't be that stupid. If he thinks he's unfair he should pack his bags, give back his signing bonus and go live in some obscure town somewhere. You can't have it both ways. I don't know who it was that was defending Stallworth but it certainly wasn't me and I have hard time believing that Naiwf would say something like that as well.

So because he's a public figure it's okay to report one side of the story as if it's a fact?

And I never said you or naiwf were defending Stallworth. But I clearly remember people defending his punishment because "the victim's family was okay with it." It might not have been on EWB, but I definitely saw that sentiment.

Edited April 17, 2010 by Evil Chase K

[sahyder1]

No Big Ben has not led them to 2 Super Bowls. He did just about everything he could to lose in that first one.

Yawn. Do we really wanna go there again? The Steelers got to the Super Bowl that year because they rode Ben's arm offensively. Without Ben, their offensive strategy of run, run, run, punt that failed them all those years prior under Cowher would have failed them again.

Why shouldn't the NFL take a stand? They have a $6 billion business to protect especially going into a year where they could potentially be a lockout. If I was betting on it I would say that Big Ben will not be on the Steelers roster when the season starts. If the Steelers had no intention of trying to deal him they would've kept their mouths shut and just said that they would let the commish handle the situation.

I would take you up on that bet so bad.

The Rooneys might be mad, but they are not stupid. Getting rid of Ben is the dumbest fucking thing I've ever heard.

And no, they wouldn't keep their mouth shut because the only reason they even had that press conference was because of the rumors that they were trading Ben.

They said nothing at the press conference to indicate they were going to get rid of Ben. In fact Rooney's quote that was something to the effect of "We are going to give Ben every opportunity to win back his teammates, our staff, and this city," is a pretty strong indicator that they're not going to get rid of him.

Edit: Adding to what Naiwf said, The Mara (and for that matter the Tisch) family does business the same old school way that the Rooneys do. That Plaxico move got a lot of respect in this market and this is NYC.

Plaxico isn't a franchise QB. The Steelers got rid of their problem WR. Ben is a different story. It took them almost 30 years to replace Terry Bradshaw. They won't forsake their future for one incident.

They're not stupid.

The Giants would have been one of the favorites to win the Super Bowl with Plaxico on the roster....instead they chose to go into the season with Hixon, Nix, Smith.

Look at the language they've used. That speaks volumes to me. Look at the paragraph I quoted earlier. That's a suspension at the very least and a trade is not out of the question. Plus who said anything about starting a rookie this year? They'd draft a QB but of course they'd bring in a veteran

Don't even go to the "they wouldn't have made it to the Super Bowl without Big Ben" B.S when just a few posts ago you were talking about Cowher not winning the big one (when he had been to the Super Bowl and was a consistent winner).

Edit: Once again. A 28 year old NFL QB being in the same bathroom/bathroom stall as a 20 year old girl is going to get him bad headlines....and deservedly so.

Edit2: I would like to see that Rooney quote you are referring to. I haven't seen it.

Edited April 17, 2010 by sahyder1

[Evil Chase K]

The Giants would have been one of the favorites to win the Super Bowl with Plaxico on the roster....instead they chose to go into the season with Hixon, Nix, Smith.

You can win a Super Bowl with WRs like that. Can the Steelers win a Super Bowl with Dennis freakin' Dixon or Charlie Batch? I think not.

Look at the language they've used. That speaks volumes to me. Look at the paragraph I quoted earlier. That's a suspension at the very least and a trade is not out of the question. Plus who said anything about starting a rookie this year? They'd draft a QB but of course they'd bring in a veteran

There is no one available who is better than Ben. He's not going to be traded. The fact that anyone actually even thinks this is a possibility is mind boggling. The Steelers aren't stupid.

Drafting a QB is not a sure thing. Ben Roethlisberger is a sure thing.

Don't even go to the "they wouldn't have made it to the Super Bowl without Big Ben" B.S when just a few posts ago you were talking about Cowher not winning the big one (when he had been to the Super Bowl and was a consistent winner).

Are you serious? Do you read what you type or is it just stream of consciousness.

How many SUPER BOWLS did Cowher win before Ben? Zero. Why? Because his run, run, run, punt strategy never worked come playoff time. Worked well in the regular season. Sucked in the playoffs.

In the 2005 playoffs everyone was shocked at the Steelers pass-first gameplan. No one was expecting it. Ben came out against Indy and was absolutely fantastic. He carved them apart and lead them to two quick scores. If not for a Jerome Bettis fumble the score isn't even close.

The following week Ben did the exact same thing to the Broncos. It can't be a coincidence that the first year the Steelers decide to join the 21st century and actually have a pass-first gameplan in the playoffs they get to the Super Bowl and win it.

You acting like Bill Cowher, a coach who is notorious for losing so many AFC Championship games, won a lot of championships is stupid.

Oh, and for the record...the year the Steelers lost to the Cowboys in the Super Bowl, they employed a pass-first offense too. Cowher's insistence on running the ball in the playoffs was his downfall. Ask anyone who knows football, and any Steelers fan and they'll tell you the same thing.

[Evil Chase K]

Edit2: I would like to see that Rooney quote you are referring to. I haven't seen it.

"After imposing an appropriate level of discipline," Rooney said during a press conference this afternoon, "and outlining the steps we feel will be necessary to be successful as a player and a person, we intend to allow Ben the opportunity to prove to us he is the teammate and citizen we all believe he is capable of being.

"And we hope the entire Steelers community will allow Ben the opportunity to prove to them that he deserves their trust and their respect."

"I have made it clear to Ben that his conduct in this incident did not live up to our standards," Rooney said. "We have made it very clear to Ben that there will be consequences for his actions, and Ben has indicated to us that he is willing to accept those consequences."

Read more: http://www.post-gaze...m#ixzz0lKXwb07e

They traded Santonio because they weren't convinced he was willing to change and that he was sincere about accepting the consequences.

Art clearly doesn't feel the same way about Ben.

Edited April 17, 2010 by Evil Chase K

[sahyder1]

The Giants would have been one of the favorites to win the Super Bowl with Plaxico on the roster....instead they chose to go into the season with Hixon, Nix, Smith.

You can win a Super Bowl with WRs like that. Can the Steelers win a Super Bowl with Dennis freakin' Dixon or Charlie Batch? I think not.

Look at the language they've used. That speaks volumes to me. Look at the paragraph I quoted earlier. That's a suspension at the very least and a trade is not out of the question. Plus who said anything about starting a rookie this year? They'd draft a QB but of course they'd bring in a veteran

There is no one available who is better than Ben. He's not going to be traded. The fact that anyone actually even thinks this is a possibility is mind boggling. The Steelers aren't stupid.

Drafting a QB is not a sure thing. Ben Roethlisberger is a sure thing.

Don't even go to the "they wouldn't have made it to the Super Bowl without Big Ben" B.S when just a few posts ago you were talking about Cowher not winning the big one (when he had been to the Super Bowl and was a consistent winner).

Are you serious? Do you read what you type or is it just stream of consciousness.

How many SUPER BOWLS did Cowher win before Ben? Zero. Why? Because his run, run, run, punt strategy never worked come playoff time. Worked well in the regular season. Sucked in the playoffs.

In the 2005 playoffs everyone was shocked at the Steelers pass-first gameplan. No one was expecting it. Ben came out against Indy and was absolutely fantastic. He carved them apart and lead them to two quick scores. If not for a Jerome Bettis fumble the score isn't even close.

The following week Ben did the exact same thing to the Broncos. It can't be a coincidence that the first year the Steelers decide to join the 21st century and actually have a pass-first gameplan in the playoffs they get to the Super Bowl and win it.

You acting like Bill Cowher, a coach who is notorious for losing so many AFC Championship games, won a lot of championships is stupid.

Oh, and for the record...the year the Steelers lost to the Cowboys in the Super Bowl, they employed a pass-first offense too. Cowher's insistence on running the ball in the playoffs was his downfall. Ask anyone who knows football, and any Steelers fan and they'll tell you the same thing.

You can't win a Super Bowl with WRs like that when they none of them was even a starter the previous year. Where did I say Dixon or Batch would be the starter? Where did anyone say that? They are going to trade for a veteran.

Your comments about Cowher are idiotic. In a league of parity....year after year he was in the Conference Championship game losing to the best teams (Patriots/Broncos). You make it sound like the Conference Championship is something to be ashamed of in the NFL I honestly don't know what NFL you have been watching.

I found the supposed Rooney quote you were referring to. Rooney didn't say....Big Ben said he wanted to try to do it.

[naiwf]

The Plax issue killed the team on the field for TWO seasons. They were 11-1 and defending SB champs when he shot himself. Then they finished the year going 1-4 with the lone win coming against Carolina and they almost blew that one late.

The following season they let him go when conventional wisdom stated they'd be ruining their playoff chances without a legit #1 WR. Predictably they went 5-0 against the soft part of the schedule and didn't even make the playoffs. With Plax on the team, they win at least 10 last year and could make a run since Eli put up his best numbers ever with a bunch of rookies and Boss.

The Giants could have won their second straight SB if Plax was healthy, even if they went into the playoffs without Eli. That's how important he was to the team. He demanded double coverage which opened up the #2 and slot receivers and made it so that teams couldn't stuff 8 men into the box when it was short yardage and/or goal line. The Giants knew all of that and still let him go without a proven WR on the team to replace him. If the Rooneys are more concerned with fielding a winner than integrity, character and everything else they preach about then they need to admit that winning is all that matters and never again try to take the moral high ground on anything.

[Evil Chase K]

You can't win a Super Bowl with WRs like that when they none of them was even a starter the previous year. Where did I say Dixon or Batch would be the starter? Where did anyone say that? They are going to trade for a veteran.

- How do you know you can't? Look at Tom Brady's receivers when he won the Super Bowl. Wide Receiver is a lot easier to contribute early on in a career than QB.

- Who would they trade to acquire this veteran, oh football expert. Seriously. Who is out there that they could trade for that would be better than Ben that wouldn't get his ass destroyed behind our O-Line?

Your comments about Cowher are idiotic. In a league of parity....year after year he was in the Conference Championship game losing to the best teams (Patriots/Broncos). You make it sound like the Conference Championship is something to be ashamed of in the NFL I honestly don't know what NFL you have been watching.

I didn't realize the goal of every NFL team was to get to the Conference Championship. The goal is to win the Super Bowl, and when you don't do that...you've failed.

And what is so hard to understand about what I said? Cowher never won a Super Bowl until Ben. Why? Because he had a QB good enough to win games with his arm, and Cowher rode Ben's arm to the Super Bowl. It's a fact.

I found the supposed Rooney quote you were referring to. Rooney didn't say....Big Ben said he wanted to try to do it.

Um...I posted the quote. From Rooney. From the press conference.

Edited April 17, 2010 by Evil Chase K

[sahyder1]

Lets not even forget that a large chunk of the Steelers fan base and media have turned against him already. You just can't go into the season and have your starting QB be booed.

Stop trying to be a smartass. You're making it sound like Cowher was going 5-11 every year. Going to as many championship games as Cowher did in the 90s and 00s is a big deal.

Edited April 17, 2010 by sahyder1

[Evil Chase K]

The Plax issue killed the team on the field for TWO seasons. They were 11-1 and defending SB champs when he shot himself. Then they finished the year going 1-4 with the lone win coming against Carolina and they almost blew that one late.

The following season they let him go when conventional wisdom stated they'd be ruining their playoff chances without a legit #1 WR. Predictably they went 5-0 against the soft part of the schedule and didn't even make the playoffs. With Plax on the team, they win at least 10 last year and could make a run since Eli put up his best numbers ever with a bunch of rookies and Boss.

Maybe so, but it's still a lot different than trading a franchise QB. Especially a franchise QB with two rings.

It's a lot easier to find a replacement at WR.

Lets not even forget that a large chunk of the Steelers fan base and media have turned against him already. You just can't go into the season and have your starting QB be booed.

I can speak from first-hand knowledge when I say that it's mostly yinzers, old people, bandwagon fans, and "SMASHMOUTH FOOTBALL!" fans that have turned on Ben.

The majority of the serious fans that post on message boards, own season tickets, attend Steelers Fantasy Camp, etc. don't want Ben gone.

And those same fans who hate Ben now will be sniffing his jock when he leads the team into the playoffs.

Stop trying to be a smartass. You're making it sound like Cowher was going 5-11 every year. Going to as many championship games as Cowher did in the 90s and 00s is a big deal.

I'm not saying it's not a big deal. I'm just saying that Ben's presence is directly responsible for Cowher finally getting the "I can't win when it really matters" monkey off his back.

Edited April 17, 2010 by Evil Chase K

[sahyder1]

I actually just went back and checked and the two most run oriented Steelers teams in the Cowher era were 2004 and 2005(Super Bowl year) and yes...both were with Big Ben years. In '04 they ran the ball 63% of their plays. In '05 they rushed it 59%. In the two years prior to Big Ben's arrival they had passed the ball more than they rushed it.

[Evil Chase K]

This is my last post for the night because I gotta be up early for a work meeting.

I just want to point out two things. The year after the Steelers won the Super Bowl. James Harrison and Cedrick Wilson both got into domestic violence situations around the same time. Harrison reportedly hit his girlfriend because she wouldn't let them take their child to get baptized. Dan Rooney defended Harrison, he wasn't charged, he wasn't arrested, he wasn't reprimanded.

Cedrick Wilson got into an argument with his girlfriend/wife. She flipped her wig and refused to come talk to police, and the result was an hours-long standoff. Cedrick wasn't charged, he wasn't arrested, but the Steelers cut him anyway.

Why? Because he wasn't nearly as important to the Steelers as Harrison was.

------

Also, Steelers fans didn't suddenly turn on Ben. They were always against him? Why? Because the people in this town are fucked.

I mean, I love this place, but the average Pittsburgher (or yinzer) is unbearable.

You see, Pittsburghers have this strange sense of entitlement when it comes to football players. They feel like the Steelers are they own personal puppets. When they approach a player while he's eating and rudely ask for an autograph, the player is the asshole when he doesn't respond.

Since Ben's second season in the league I cannot tell you how many times I've heard "Ben's a real dick." I've honestly lost count. Now with the exception of ONE occurrence that I've been told by a friend who has no reason to lie, when I ask these people why they say that, they always regale me with stories told to them by someone else about how Ben was rude to them.

These are not limited to, the time Ben came in to a pizza parlor and refused to sign autographs (something Ben has done since the beginning of his career is only sign autographs for kids, not for adults who will likely sell the autograph); or Ben acting aloof when approached out in public while he's simply trying to have a good time with friends/family or when he's trying to eat dinner.

These entitled fans were not up-in-arms when Jerome Bettis was accused of sexual assault and offering autographed footballs for oral sex. Yet because of this whole "Ben is a dick" stigma, they jumped all over him.

And it's not the first time a Pittsburgh athlete has come under fire with rumors. Kordell Stewart was almost ran out of town over tasteless rumors that he would peruse Schenley Park bathrooms looking for gay sex. Bill Cowher had to call a press conference to dispel rumors that he was having an affair with his African-American secretary (that lead to some awkwardly racist jokes).

The fans have had it out for Roethlisberger from the get-go and when this story first broke there were a lot of people crucifying Ben immediately. These fuckheads were looking for an excuse to hate the guy and now they have one.

Don't let the media fool you into believing that these so-called noble Steelers fans have had enough. Because no matter how big of an asshole they claim their friend told them Ben is, they'll be wearing his jersey and chanting his name at Steelers games when he takes them to the playoffs again.

[Evil Chase K]

I actually just went back and checked and the two most run oriented Steelers teams in the Cowher era were 2004 and 2005(Super Bowl year) and yes...both were with Big Ben years. In '04 they ran the ball 63% of their plays. In '05 they rushed it 59%. In the two years prior to Big Ben's arrival they had passed the ball more than they rushed it.

That's correct. But I said they rode Ben's arm in the playoffs. No one expected it, so it was the perfect gameplan.

2003 -- Tommy Maddox set Steelers passing records but he fucking sucks so the Steelers were awful. That lead to them picking 11th and drafting Ben.

2004 -- Maddox gets hurt in the second game, Ben comes in and the Steelers use the running game mixed with Ben making insane pulled-out-of-his-ass plays to go 14-0 for the rest of the season. In the playoffs Cowher takes the ball out of Ben's hands and it nearly fails. So he goes back to the pass for the AFC Championship game and it sorta works until Plaxico drops a sure TD that hit him right in the hands and then Ben throws a pick-six.

2005 -- Again the plan was to protect Ben. They would throw early, use Ben's abilities to get out to a lead then sit on the ball and run teams into submission in the 2nd half. It worked. Then Ben got hurt, they got away from their gameplan and lost 4 games in a row. They would win out to get into the playoffs.

2005 playoffs -- Ben comes out and carves the Colts and Broncos defenses up. They get out to early leads and then let their defense and running game take over.

Like I said...Cowher needed Ben to get a ring.

[sahyder1]

The Steelers won that year becuse of the defense(and great luck with Palmer getting hurt and that crazy play in Colts game) and not Big Ben. Had they drafted Eli or Rivers there chances would have been just as good if not better. He wasn't in there to win games....just manage them. Plenty of other guys would have done the job that year.

Harrison and Wilson cases were different. Harrison's incident happened at home with his then GF who dropped the charges. Of course his actions were stupid and had the current system been in place he would have faced punishment from the league. Wilson could have been cut anyways. He was horrible. What a waste of a draft pick he was for my 49ers. That's why he's offensive coordinator in H.S football and nowhere near NFL now. With Wilson it was him going after an ex at a restaurant. He had also had an incident involving the same woman earlier that year.

[SeanDMan]

I thoroughly believe that if Ben had gotten high on PCP, burned down an apartment building, killed two cops, and kidnapped four teenage girls to handcuff them in his cellar and sexually abuse for the next year, Chase would still argue for a two game suspension. Four if the NFL wanted to send a message.

[Powerhart]

I thoroughly believe that if Ben had gotten high on PCP, burned down an apartment building, killed two cops, and kidnapped four teenage girls to handcuff them in his cellar and sexually abuse for the next year, Chase would still argue for a two game suspension. Four if the NFL wanted to send a message.

Hahahaha. He totally would. Chase, stop defending Ben, man. It's not the first time he is acused of something like this, don't act like he's all innocent and shit just becuase your a Pittsburgh fan.

[DMN in the House]

You're fucking ridiculous, Chase. Just give it up, and go wave your Terrible Towel, ya fuckin' homer.

[GhostMachine]

Roethlisberger is an unfortunate combination of immature and stupid.

Do I think the Steelers will get rid of him? It depends. I don't know if they'd be willing to release him outright if they can't find a team willing to make a trade.

Do I want the Steelers to release him? NO! Because he might end up with a team I actually like! But I do think he should be punished somehow, and it doesn't matter whether its by the Commissioner or by the team.

I think suspending him anywhere from half a season to a full season - without pay - would be a good idea, not just because of the situation right now but because of past behavior. Roethlisberger needs to get a clue and stop behaving like an idiot during the offseason. Dude needs to grow up!

[NobBe Nobbs]

Chase.

Also, the use of underage is inaccurate in a sense because she was legal. She was underage when it comes to consuming alcohol, but the police report suggests that she had already been drinking when she had gone out wearing a nametag that read "DTF" which means "Down To Fuck."

Yeah, she's a real angel.

That sounds dangerously close to you defending Roethlisberger by using the argument "it can't have been rape, she totally wanted it". You really have to learn to step back and shut the fuck up about Steeler-related issues.