The Scottish Football thread

[Matt]

Now for the SFL teams to reject them

[Matt]

St Johnstone also say no, that's 6/11.

[Sam]

I imagine Celtic would say no? Or do they fear losing the revenue from the derby? Not that it matters because apparently that is that? Confused by all of this to be honest, haven't really been following it.

Edited June 25, 2012 by Sam

[Marcos]

I imagine Celtic would say no? Or do they fear losing the revenue from the derby? Not that it matters because apparently that is that? Confused by all of this to be honest, haven't really been following it.

If it was a public vote then they would say no, can't be losing their support, if it was private I think they would vote yes. Due mainly to the revenue and the balance of power that the Old Firm have.

[Crybaby Bunting]

Steven Davis, Allan McGregor, Kyle Lafferty and Jamie Ness have all lodged complaints about their transfer.

I really feel sorry for the creditors, the one thing that Rangers had left of value to them was the players and now they're leaving on frees it's looking like they will never be paid.

I especially feel sorry for Rapid Vienna, who sold their star player for £4m and are still waiting on Rangers to pay them, even though they've already sold the player on to Everton :/

[Adam]

Looking forward to the day this is confirmed, if it is. Rangers deserve to be chucked out completely, simply. If they don't even get let into the Third Division it'll be unprecedented.

[Lineker]

John McGlynn is the new manager of Hearts.

John Fleck has become the ninth player to object to his contract being switched to a new Rangers as Kyle Hutton became the third to stay on.

Hutton joined Lee McCulloch and Lee Wallace in committing himself to the club despite their uncertain future.

But fellow Scotland Under-21 midfielder Fleck followed that by joining the others who say they are free to leave.

Hutton said: "For me, it is in my best interests to stay where I am and to try to establish myself in the side."

The 21-year-old is a product of the Ibrox youth system but has made only 14 appearances for Rangers, starting the season on loan to Partick Thistle and ending it with Dunfermline Athletic as they were relegated from the Scottish Premier League.

Now the new Rangers face the prospect of being refused entry to the SPL and playing the Pars in Division One - or even starting over again in the Third Division - should they be forced to apply to the Scottish Football League.

Jamie Ness, Rhys McCabe and Fleck, fellow midfielders who were team-mates of Hutton as they came through the youth ranks, are among the players who have decided tp develop their careers away from Ibrox.

Hutton ended the season on loan to Dunfermline as they were relegated from the SPL

But Hutton told Rangers' website: "I enjoyed it in the First Division with Partick last season.

"If that's where we were to end up playing, I'd know what to expect and it's a tough league.

"For the players who are remaining with Rangers, it's still a good level to play at and it'll be a bigger test for us than some might think should we go into that competition.

"Like everyone else in the first-team squad, I've had a good long, hard think about the situation.

"With the other players that are leaving, I look upon what has happened as something which presents me with a chance to play more games for the club.

"As sad as everything which has been going on is, this is still Rangers we are talking about and it's an extremely attractive team for people to play for."

Hutton urged other fringe players to consider staying with the club despite all the uncertainty.

"I'm still a young player who is learning his trade and hopefully I've got a long career ahead of me, so this is a great place for me to keep learning," he added.

"I'd say the same to other young players who have yet to make their decisions on their futures known.

"There are quite a few other boys coming through who can make an impact and hopefully they can look at things in the same light as I have."

The 20-year-old Fleck, who ended the season on loan with Blackpool after Sheffield United failed in a bid for he and Hutton, has decided against taking that advice.

Four more players - captain Steven Davis, Allan McGregor, Kyle Lafferty and Jamie Ness - have lodged objections to their transfer to a "newco" Rangers.

The consortium led by Charles Green believe the players' contracts should transfer from the old, soon-to-be liquidated Rangers.

Last week, Steven Naismith, Steven Whittaker, Sone Aluko and Rhys McCabe claimed to be free agents.

That action prompted chief executive Green to threaten legal action.

Green, whose consortium bought Rangers' assets after creditors rejected a plan to take the old company out of administration, says he will use the courts to block the players' departure and seek damages.

Scotland defender Lee Wallace has announced he intends to remain with Rangers for the remainder of his five-year contract.

But midfielder Davis, Northern Ireland team-mate Lafferty, Scotland goalkeeper McGregor and Under-21 international midfielder Ness have joined those eyeing an exit.

A statement from lawyer Margaret Gribbon of Bridge Litigation read: "Allan McGregor, Steven Davis, Jamie Ness and Kyle Lafferty have instructed PFA lawyers Bridge Litigation UK to object to their transfer to the Rangers' newco."

Green's newco Rangers has submitted an application to be granted entry into the Scottish Premier League and will face a vote by all 12 top-flight clubs on 4 July.

However, enough clubs have already stated they will be voting against Rangers' application to leave the new club facing the prospect of having to apply for entry to the Scottish Football League.

Raith Rovers and Falkirk have gone public with their opposition to a new Rangers being admitted to Division One instead of starting life two rungs below.

"This has been an extremely difficult period for all the players and, in the end, their decisions were influenced largely by footballing considerations," added Ms Gribbon.

"SPL football appears highly unlikely and even First Division football cannot be guaranteed in light of comments made today by two First Division clubs.

"The players' commitment and loyalty to oldco Rangers cannot be questioned; they voluntarily took significant wage cuts in a genuine act of solidarity, which ensured that none of the playing squad or club staff would lose their jobs.

"But for their contribution, it's likely that the club would not have survived until the end of the season.

"As professional footballers, the players' careers are relatively short-lived and they are entitled to exercise basic employment rights the law affords to all employees in this country under the TUPE Regulations.

"I now expect the SFA and Fifa to interpret their Rules and Regulations in accordance with the TUPE legislation so that the players' registrations can be released without delay."

Rangers are due to start pre-season training on Thursday, the same day as staff who have agreed to transfer their contracts are due to receive their first pay packets from the Sevco consortium.

But they are already facing one change to their plans ahead of the new season. Southampton have announced that Anderlecht will replace Rangers in this year's Markus Liebherr Memorial Cup, which will also feature Arsenal, because of question marks about the strength of the Glasgow club's squad.

Meanwhile, the Scottish Football Association is awaiting information from Green to support his newco club's application for membership of the governing body.

Green submitted a letter of application on Friday, but the SFA needs formal documents relating to his consortium, requirements for fit and proper officials, and plans for his newco Rangers.

It was agreed that Green, whose group purchased the business and assets of Rangers for £5.5m, would provide details before this weekend.

The transfer of the SFA membership from soon-to-be-liquidated Rangers to Green's newco could take place at the same time as a decision is made over which league the club will play in.

The club were forced into administration in February over an unpaid tax bill and failure to secure a company voluntary arrangement in order to exit the process consigned the club to liquidation.

Rangers legend Sandy Jardine has accused of "greed" the nine players refusing to have their contracts switched to a new company.

Jardine claims they have reneged on an agreement to do so made before the takeover by Charles Green's consortium.

"There was an agreement reached over wage cuts and they got a great deal because they could leave for rock-bottom prices," he said.

"And now they have seen an opportunity. In many ways, it's greed."

John Fleck has become the latest player to lodge an objection to switch of his contract to a "newco" Rangers, less than 24 hours after a similar announcement on behalf of captain Steven Davis, Allan McGregor, Kyle Lafferty and Jamie Ness .

Steven Naismith, Steven Whittaker, Sone Aluko and Rhys McCabe last week claimed to be free agents as a result of the old club heading for liquidation.

They had cited the likelihood of Rangers being demoted from the Scottish Premier League as the reason for their decision.

But Jardine believes their motives are purely financial and that their actions will deny Rangers vital funds as they seek to rebuild.

"I am dismayed and disappointed by the actions of the eight players," the club ambassador told Rangers' website.

"What they have done is seen an opportunity - whether it is them or their agents - to maximise their income.

"The players took a salary sacrifice. But, for that, they got clauses in their contracts which would allow them to leave on rock bottom prices if clubs came in for them.

"I have to be honest and say I think the players have used our predicament to their gain."

The new Rangers face the prospect of losing a vote among the 12 SPL clubs and face another battle for admission to Division One or the Third Division next season.

"Of course, we as a club don't expect international players to go down a division or a few divisions," said former Rangers defender Jardine.

"We would be reluctant to see them go, but we would understand. They would move on with our best wishes and we would get a fee - albeit a rock bottom price in comparison to their market value.

"What we don't have an answer for is why the players simply did not adhere to the original deal and allow the club to make money from these reduced fees.

"What we have to do in our situation is to get everything sorted out, know what league we are in, know what players are staying and then start to build from there.

"If we don't have money from fees for players leaving - which we are completely entitled to - then what are we supposed to build on, fresh air?"

[Crybaby Bunting]

I do like the argument how most of them are traitors for being childhood Rangers fans leaving. Wasn't the point they were trying to make to stiff creditors basically "This isn't Rangers in any form, it's a totally new club/company"

[Matt]

I do like the argument how most of them are traitors for being childhood Rangers fans leaving. Wasn't the point they were trying to make to stiff creditors basically "This isn't Rangers in any form, it's a totally new club/company"

Well to be fair, it's not a case of a point they were trying to make, it's what is legally true. But yeah, absolutely stupid that they believe they have the right to transfer these players' contracts.

[Crybaby Bunting]

Rangers get paid their wages today (Thursday) it shall be VERY interesting to see what happens if there's a delay in wages.

[METALMAN]

I really feel sorry for the creditors, the one thing that Rangers had left of value to them was the players

tbf Rangers have got a really beautiful ground (you don't know how difficult it is for me to admit this) and a state of the art training complex. those are worth far more than their shitty players.

[Crybaby Bunting]

If the rumors are true, part of the reason why the American guy suddenly pulled out of the deal was because he had access to some unpublished files after becoming the preferential bidder which basically said that Ibrox is riddled with Asbestos and it'd cost more than the valuation of the ground to remove it.

It's basically worthless for property development if this is true.

[METALMAN]

really? brilliant!

[Matt]

I thought they didn't own their training complex (any more), I could be just completely making that up thoughn

[Lineker]

More than 1,000 Rangers fans have staged a protest outside Ibrox Stadium over the situation at the club.

Some supporters are angry with the Charles Green consortium, which bought the club's assets after it could not be saved from liquidation.

Former player John Brown aims to lead a bid for the club on behalf of fans and urged them not to buy season tickets under the current regime.

Brown appeared at the protest and spoke to the crowd.

Earlier on Wednesday he said: "We don't want to buy in with Charles Green. The Rangers fans are going to buy out Charles Green's consortium."

The protest was organised by supporters' group the Union Bears, which said: "We demand answers from Mr Green immediately. The situation is critical and we as fans must act now."

Banners tied to railings across the road from Ibrox said: "Rangers fans demand answers" and "Murray, Whyte, Green. Same face different name".

Rangers players are due back at training on Thursday morning for the first time since the formation of the newco and the imminent liquidation of the old company.

Several players have already made it clear they will not be part of the newco.

Just looking at the Rangers squad... they will be left with Goian, Broadfoot, Edu, Wallace, Healy, Ortiz (who said he still wants to leave despite accepting a newco contract), Bocanegra, Bedoya, Alexander, Kerkar, Perry, Little, Hutton, Mitchell, plus other various youngsters.

My point is this - any of those take your fancy?

[Lineker]

BBC Scotland has learned of plans being put in place that would allow Rangers to move directly into Scottish Division One in the coming season.

Rangers FC plc is soon to be liquidated and Charles Green's consortium are reforming the club.

But Green's Rangers newco has not gained support to replace the old club in the Scottish Premier League.

And senior Scottish football figures are proposing that Rangers start season 2012-13 in the second tier.

There are also plans for the SPL and Scottish Football League bodies to be merged into a new organisation called 'The Scottish Professional Football League' in 12 months' time.

The main points of proposal documentation viewed by BBC Scotland are:

• Rangers are to be relegated with immediate effect and replaced in the SPL by Dundee.
  
• Television rights for Rangers matches in Scottish Football League Division One are to be bought by the SPL for £1m.
  
• The SPL and SFL will merge into one body at the start of season 2013-14.
  
• Play-offs between the top two divisions will be introduced in time for the coming season with one team from the top flight and three from the second tier competing for a place in the following season's SPL.
  
• There will be an increase in the parachute payments made to clubs relegated from the SPL.
  
• Changes will be made to the distribution model for clubs in the top two tiers with teams in the lower leagues earning a similar amount to the current set-up.
  
• A new pyramid system will become effective from season 2014-15 that will allow a potential place in the new league format for a team from either the Highland league or newly-created 'Lowland League'.
  
• Rangers newco's acceptance into the Scottish FA would only be approved if they accept responsibility for the football debts and fines incurred by the pervious club along with their waiving of rights to a legal challenge.

It is understood Rangers chief executive Green has been "briefed" by Hibernian chairman Rod Petrie on the plans to gain their approval.

All changes have to be approved by SPL and SFL clubs over the next few days. The plans require the support of eight SPL clubs and a majority of SFL clubs to be passed.

Should the proposals not gain support, it remains possible that Rangers could begin next season in Scottish Division Three, the lowest league in the senior set-up.

Division One clubs Falkirk, Raith Rovers and latterly Morton have voiced their opposition to any plans to place the Rangers newco in the second tier.

With no Rangers currently in the SPL, 'Club 12' is listed on the league's fixtures for season 2012-13 and Dunfermline, who were relegated from the top flight last season, expect to be reinstated.

Dundee, who finished second to promoted Division One champions Ross County last season, have not gone public with their view on who should take the place of Club 12.

Ten first-team players have attended for fitness tests at Rangers.

With the club being relaunched, several players have objected to transferring their contracts to the new set-up.

But Neil Alexander, Kirk Broadfoot, Lee McCulloch, Ross Perry and Lee Wallace attended Murray Park with assistant manager Kenny McDowall on Wednesday.

Darren Cole, Kane Hemmings, Kyle Hutton , Kal Naismith and Andrew Mitchell were also there but manager Ally McCoist was absent.

However, McCoist is expected to attend training on Monday.

[Cadj]

I hate Scottish football.

[METALMAN]

I love it!

[Noah]

Stay in the Scottish Premier League, be relegated to Division 1, or end up all the way back down in Division 3.

Poor Division 2 is getting no love.

[Crybaby Bunting]

That proposal will never be agreed on because it implies that Rangers exist in their current format.

At the moment there is a new company that is technically the new Rangers, it currently has no SFL license (and will never get one), has about 7 players on its books (if they are legally owned by this new company or not) and needs to be considered a different club (no history etc.) if they don't want to take on their previous financial commitments.

It's a new club. If I decided to splash out millions on a football team like Gretna 2: Gretna Harder, I would have to start up at the very bottom of the league system and work my way up. It doesn't mater if I've built a 70,000 seater stadium or have Cristiano fucking Ronaldo on my books, I'd have to start at the very bottom.

Friday is the deadline for them to apply for a place in the league, to get said place in the league system they need three years worth of accounts. How can a new company (which we don't even know the name of for christ sake) provide three years worth of accounts unless they use the accounts of the old Rangers, which would make them liable to pay their debts.

There is a huge difference between this and any other club that has came before it. Leeds got into a shit load of debt and fucked over their creditors by paying pennies to a pound with a CVA, but the CVA WAS agreed by the creditors as a way of getting that or nothing. Rangers haven't even arranged a CVA so are trying to walk away from £130m worth of potential debt and end up with a club in the SPL or Division one with their players and stadium intact.

Basically, Rangers want rules to be changed that will benefit them and only them under the disguise that it's great for the benefit of Scottish football. No it isn't! Scottish football can survive without Rangers, it can survive without Celtic or Dunfirmline, Hearts or Aberdeen. Part of history involves change and if the SPL truly want a competitive league then they can't allow a club to come back into the system with a slap on the wrist for simply walking away from debt.