The Scottish Football thread

[Colly]

Real and Barca do and thats why the Spanish League has been a two horse race since Benitez went to Liverpool. I don't think this is a case of that though, Sky always show the teams that get more viewers more, compare the number of Man Utd games over a season to Wigan games. Not sure how the money works out, but I don't think its too detrimental to those shown less often by comparison to La Liga.

[Matt]

Real and Barca do and thats why the Spanish League has been a two horse race since Benitez went to Liverpool. I don't think this is a case of that though, Sky always show the teams that get more viewers more, compare the number of Man Utd games over a season to Wigan games. Not sure how the money works out, but I don't think its too detrimental to those shown less often by comparison to La Liga.

TV money from the league is shared through the league based on final position. I know why Sky have done this, but they've effectively negotiated a deal for Rangers here. How long before they decide they want to try and negotiate a deal for Man Utd or Liverpool, so they don't have to bugger around with showing less appealling matches such as Stoke vs Wigan?

[METALMAN]

I was at the Motherwell game btw. I normally play football with a bunch of folk from Bellshill on Tues nights but they were all at Motherwell game so I thought I'd tag along. it was nice. I'd never been to a Champions League game before.

Was bored off my face though.

[Colly]

Real and Barca do and thats why the Spanish League has been a two horse race since Benitez went to Liverpool. I don't think this is a case of that though, Sky always show the teams that get more viewers more, compare the number of Man Utd games over a season to Wigan games. Not sure how the money works out, but I don't think its too detrimental to those shown less often by comparison to La Liga.

TV money from the league is shared through the league based on final position. I know why Sky have done this, but they've effectively negotiated a deal for Rangers here. How long before they decide they want to try and negotiate a deal for Man Utd or Liverpool, so they don't have to bugger around with showing less appealling matches such as Stoke vs Wigan?

Doesn't the contract require them to show a minimum of however many games for the smaller clubs? Either way the chairmen have consistently voted against individual tv negotiation, so can't really see it happening for a long time.

[Matt]

Real and Barca do and thats why the Spanish League has been a two horse race since Benitez went to Liverpool. I don't think this is a case of that though, Sky always show the teams that get more viewers more, compare the number of Man Utd games over a season to Wigan games. Not sure how the money works out, but I don't think its too detrimental to those shown less often by comparison to La Liga.

TV money from the league is shared through the league based on final position. I know why Sky have done this, but they've effectively negotiated a deal for Rangers here. How long before they decide they want to try and negotiate a deal for Man Utd or Liverpool, so they don't have to bugger around with showing less appealling matches such as Stoke vs Wigan?

Doesn't the contract require them to show a minimum of however many games for the smaller clubs? Either way the chairmen have consistently voted against individual tv negotiation, so can't really see it happening for a long time.

Yeah it does, I don't see how I've disputed that. And ultimately what the chairmen say will mean fuck all, Sky have more power than anyone when it comes to the Premier League.

[METALMAN]

hi matt

[Matt]

hi andy

[METALMAN]

btw you should change your name to mat because colly is WALKING ALL OVER YOU in that argument

[Matt]

What argument? Sky will pay £750m per season (roughly) from 2013-2014 through 2015-16, what's to say at the end of that deal they couldn't turn around and say, nah actually we're not interested in buying the rights to Fulham vs. Sunderland, we'll offer Man Utd £150m for all their games, Liverpool £120m, etc:

[Colly]

Yeah, I wasn't arguing either. But what stops that is the collective bargaining agreement (I think that's what its called...) between the 20 Premier League clubs. Much as Sky have a lot of power they need the league as much as it needs them, especially given the presence of the likes of ESPN who would step into that gap if Sky decide to get silly. Or indeed the clubs themselves via their own channels.

Edit: I did like the 'mat/walking over you' gag though. Kudos Andy.

Edited August 1, 2012 by Colly

[Matt]

ESPN, ITV, BBC, BT Vision and whoever else all thrown together have nowhere near enough money to throw around to replace Sky's coverage. If Sky wanted to play hardball, they could. At this point what Sky want in regards to Premier League football, they're generally going to get it.

[Colly]

But is the amount that they'll throw at the bottom half clubs worth it to take the offer? I did say early doors that I couldn't see it happening for a while, not ever, was it Liverpool who suggested it recently when all the talk was 'foreign owners will accept it' and even the Glazers rejected it?

[Matt]

If they truly play hardball, then you're looking at the TV money being slashed by 2/3rds or something ridiculous, I reckon the smallest clubs could probably get £15-20m for all their TV rights, which would still be more than a third of what they're getting now.

I'm not saying that that's something that'll necessarily happen in the next negotiations but given they've just negotiated it with Rangers, there's no reason they wouldn't also ask for the rights to all Man Utd games before eventually moving on to that kind of deal.

[METALMAN]

What argument?

Yeah, I wasn't arguing either.

tbf I didn't actually read what you were saying

[Crybaby Bunting]

I think the bigger question here is why did Sky hold the SPL to ransom over the TV rights, and why have they managed to reduce their already tiny TV deal because Rangers is no longer there, given that it had over a year left?

Surely there was no need to renegotiate the deal unless the deal specifically said that X amount of Old Firm games had to be broadcast on Sky. The SPL should have just stuck to their side of the contract and waited for Sky to pay up, but why didn't they? Clearly the old contract was written around the Old Firm which meant that neither Celtic or Rangers could technically be relegated without breaking the deal.

So this explains why the SPL were shitting themselves over the past few months and why Rangers were fast tracked into everywhere. They couldn't risk breaking the deal and leaving every SPL team without a TV income a few weeks before the start of the season.

But this isn't the fault of the SPL clubs themselves, this is the fault of the SPL being absolute idiots when it came to negotiating the deal. Doncaster and co might spin it back to "If you'd voted them back in then there'd have been no problem", but that doesn't excuse them from negotiating a deal that kills off all competition in the league.

Basically. Scottish football is completely fucked and I see a lot of people walking away thanks to this mess. Rangers have broken so many footballing rules (and Scots law itself) and somehow managed to snake their way out of any severe trouble, whilst innocent SPL teams end up with a much lower TV deal for choosing to support league integrity (which Doncaster and co clearly didn't want).

Innocent clubs are being punished by guilty people. It's not right at all!

[Colly]

Sorry to dig this non Scotland related topic back up, but does anyone know how the 'sell your own rights' in La Liga actually works? I mean, do you only sell your home games or what? The whole thing is confusesome.

[Lineker]

ESPN has followed Sky by announcing it has agreed a deal to show live Scottish Premier League games this season - and Rangers games in Division Three.

Under the deal, 30 SPL games will be shown on ESPN over the season, as well as 10 involving Rangers.

Three of the games of the club now playing in the bottom tier after liquidation will come from Ibrox.

It represents 10 more live Scottish football games on the station than in previous seasons.

Earlier this week, Sky Sports announced a deal for 30 SPL fixtures, plus five involving Rangers.

SPL clubs had feared that the absence of Rangers from the SPL would result in a major loss of income after renegotiation of television contracts.

No figures have yet been released for the Sky deal or the one announced by ESPN.

SPL coverage on ESPN starts on Sunday, when Dundee United host Hibernian.

ESPN announced: "The Clydesdale Bank Premier League, Irn Bru Scottish Football League and ESPN have reached a multi-year deal for rights to Scottish football from next season through 2017.

"The agreement means ESPN's channels in the UK and Ireland will next season screen 40 live and exclusive matches from both leagues - more than ever before and 10 more than in previous seasons on ESPN.

"Under the deal, 30 Clydesdale Bank Premier League games will be shown on ESPN over the season alongside 10 Rangers games from the Irn Bru Scottish Football League, including three home Rangers fixtures."

[Colly]

So the SPL started, and not a toss was given...

[Lineker]

Dundee Utd have the early lead!

[Lineker]

Newcastle owner Mike Ashley will "hopefully" be one of three billionaire investors in newco Rangers, the Scottish club's chief executive Charles Green has told Sky Sports News.