The 2011/12 Gary Speed Memorial Thread

[Summers]

Seven years? Liverpool finished second three/four seasons ago.

And getting into the latter stages of the Champions League in 2009.

Maybe Dan just isn't very good at counting?

CL winners in 2005, never hit that height again = downward.

Actually fuck it, I agree with rockbox, all hail rockbox and his wonderful knowledge of Liverpool.

Bloody armchair supporter.

Of course another champions league final and a second place finish with a big points total is nothing.

But it isn't winning something, is it?

[therockbox]

Rockbox, you're missing the point of what Matt says and now this argument is stupid.

The Man United job won't be available so it's irrelevant, isn't it?

[Jimmy]

Yes, I would. Genuinely I would.

[therockbox]

Seven years? Liverpool finished second three/four seasons ago.

And getting into the latter stages of the Champions League in 2009.

Maybe Dan just isn't very good at counting?

CL winners in 2005, never hit that height again = downward.

Actually fuck it, I agree with rockbox, all hail rockbox and his wonderful knowledge of Liverpool.

Bloody armchair supporter.

Of course another champions league final and a second place finish with a big points total is nothing.

But it isn't winning something, is it?

Would you accept the appointment of, say, Mick McCarthy or Allardyce because of Villa's recent season?

[Jimmy]

Rockbox, you're missing the point of what Matt says and now this argument is stupid.

The Man United job won't be available so it's irrelevant, isn't it?

Okay, forget relevance for a second. Matt said that, despite the history of the club and all the money, it's the 6th most attractive job in England right now. Just because it's the most attractive job right now doesn't mean every high level manager will want to take it because it's still only the 6th best job in England.

I think that's what he was getting at.

[MGW]

Seven years? Liverpool finished second three/four seasons ago.

And getting into the latter stages of the Champions League in 2009.

Maybe Dan just isn't very good at counting?

CL winners in 2005, never hit that height again = downward.

Actually fuck it, I agree with rockbox, all hail rockbox and his wonderful knowledge of Liverpool.

Bloody armchair supporter.

Of course another champions league final and a second place finish with a big points total is nothing.

But it isn't winning something, is it?

No but to say because we've been on the on ye downward slide since 2005 is a bit simplistic. It's not black and white like that, I'd say we massively improved for a few seasons after that but after we didn't win the league when we finished 2nd we've been going backwards

[Dan]

Porto haven't hit the heights of 8 years ago, no.

When Man Utd didn't win the league for a couple of years when Chelsea first rose up, it was seen as a downward spiral which Fergie stopped and brought them back from.

[Summers]

Seven years? Liverpool finished second three/four seasons ago.

And getting into the latter stages of the Champions League in 2009.

Maybe Dan just isn't very good at counting?

CL winners in 2005, never hit that height again = downward.

Actually fuck it, I agree with rockbox, all hail rockbox and his wonderful knowledge of Liverpool.

Bloody armchair supporter.

Of course another champions league final and a second place finish with a big points total is nothing.

But it isn't winning something, is it?

Would you accept the appointment of, say, Mick McCarthy or Allardyce because of Villa's recent season?

That has nothing to do with anything.

Getting to the final isn't as good as winning it, which is what I was responding to.

Did I say anything about Liverpool should be happy to get Martinez because of last season? I really don't remember typing that.

Because I didn't.

[therockbox]

Rockbox, you're missing the point of what Matt says and now this argument is stupid.

The Man United job won't be available so it's irrelevant, isn't it?

Okay, forget relevance for a second. Matt said that, despite the history of the club and all the money, it's the 6th most attractive job in England right now. Just because it's the most attractive job right now doesn't mean every high level manager will want to take it because it's still only the 6th best job in England.

I think that's what he was getting at.

In which case I'd say that I wouldn't really think someone like Villas Boas would be in with a chance of getting the Man City/Arsenal/Man Utd/Chelsea jobs.

I don't think that we'd attract a top level manager, like Mourinho/Guardiola etc. when a team like City would, I think the manager's I named are the sort of level we could realistically aim for and would be much, much better choices than an untried Martinez.

[Hobo]

I do not know what Matt's point was myself. Of the available jobs in the league now, Liverpool is the one that is the most attractive. If there is money and backing from the owners any available manager would want it. I cannot see why not.

I'm not saying Pep Gaurdiola would want it or Capello. I could see a Villas Boas or a Benitez wanting it. Maybe some others who are currently at clubs. But if someone wants a big EPL job then that is the biggest you can get right now. I would be wary of appointing Martinez because I fear another Roy Hodgson.

[therockbox]

Seven years? Liverpool finished second three/four seasons ago.

And getting into the latter stages of the Champions League in 2009.

Maybe Dan just isn't very good at counting?

CL winners in 2005, never hit that height again = downward.

Actually fuck it, I agree with rockbox, all hail rockbox and his wonderful knowledge of Liverpool.

Bloody armchair supporter.

Of course another champions league final and a second place finish with a big points total is nothing.

But it isn't winning something, is it?

Would you accept the appointment of, say, Mick McCarthy or Allardyce because of Villa's recent season?

That has nothing to do with anything.

Getting to the final isn't as good as winning it, which is what I was responding to.

Did I say anything about Liverpool should be happy to get Martinez because of last season? I really don't remember typing that.

Because I didn't.

You waded into a conversation that has basically been suggesting that.

The point about the league and CL final were brought up because Dan suggest we'd been on a downward spiral since 2005. That clearly wasn't the case, as we improved in the league right up until Benitez's penultimate season. The last few years have been poor, but I don't think sufficiently enough to get us to the point where we need to be taking managers from teams that have barely avoided relegation.

[Summers]

Seven years? Liverpool finished second three/four seasons ago.

And getting into the latter stages of the Champions League in 2009.

Maybe Dan just isn't very good at counting?

CL winners in 2005, never hit that height again = downward.

Actually fuck it, I agree with rockbox, all hail rockbox and his wonderful knowledge of Liverpool.

Bloody armchair supporter.

Of course another champions league final and a second place finish with a big points total is nothing.

But it isn't winning something, is it?

Would you accept the appointment of, say, Mick McCarthy or Allardyce because of Villa's recent season?

That has nothing to do with anything.

Getting to the final isn't as good as winning it, which is what I was responding to.

Did I say anything about Liverpool should be happy to get Martinez because of last season? I really don't remember typing that.

Because I didn't.

You waded into a conversation that has basically been suggesting that.

The point about the league and CL final were brought up because Dan suggest we'd been on a downward spiral since 2005. That clearly wasn't the case, as we improved in the league right up until Benitez's penultimate season. The last few years have been poor, but I don't think sufficiently enough to get us to the point where we need to be taking managers from teams that have barely avoided relegation.

I waded in to say getting to the final isn't the same achievement as winning it.

I also don't think you, or we, should be after Martinez. Whelan thinks he's Jesus, but he's hanging on in there every season and not impressing. His team isn't improving.

[Matt]

I do not know what Matt's point was myself. Of the available jobs in the league now, Liverpool is the one that is the most attractive. If there is money and backing from the owners any available manager would want it. I cannot see why not.

I'm not saying Pep Gaurdiola would want it or Capello. I could see a Villas Boas or a Benitez wanting it. Maybe some others who are currently at clubs. But if someone wants a big EPL job then that is the biggest you can get right now. I would be wary of appointing Martinez because I fear another Roy Hodgson.

My point was that it's the 6th best job in the Premier League, ideal for a young, promising manager. Martinez falls into that category and should be considered, not saying Martinez, himself, is definitely the best man for the job but that's the type of manager the 6th most attractive job should be going to.

Edit: And to clarify, this came from therockbox saying they should get someone who is proven at the top level, to which I responded A) Liverpool aren't really at the top level any more and B) how can someone get experience at the top level unless someone gives them the chance.

[therockbox]

Seven years? Liverpool finished second three/four seasons ago.

And getting into the latter stages of the Champions League in 2009.

Maybe Dan just isn't very good at counting?

CL winners in 2005, never hit that height again = downward.

Actually fuck it, I agree with rockbox, all hail rockbox and his wonderful knowledge of Liverpool.

Bloody armchair supporter.

Of course another champions league final and a second place finish with a big points total is nothing.

But it isn't winning something, is it?

Would you accept the appointment of, say, Mick McCarthy or Allardyce because of Villa's recent season?

That has nothing to do with anything.

Getting to the final isn't as good as winning it, which is what I was responding to.

Did I say anything about Liverpool should be happy to get Martinez because of last season? I really don't remember typing that.

Because I didn't.

You waded into a conversation that has basically been suggesting that.

The point about the league and CL final were brought up because Dan suggest we'd been on a downward spiral since 2005. That clearly wasn't the case, as we improved in the league right up until Benitez's penultimate season. The last few years have been poor, but I don't think sufficiently enough to get us to the point where we need to be taking managers from teams that have barely avoided relegation.

I waded in to say getting to the final isn't the same achievement as winning it.

I also don't think you, or we, should be after Martinez. Whelan thinks he's Jesus, but he's hanging on in there every season and not impressing. His team isn't improving.

Well yeah, that's obvious >_>

I agree. I don't get the infatuation with Martinez. He comes across as a nice guy but... that's it. I'd rather go for Rodgers and I don't really want Rodgers.

[Crybaby Bunting]

The real reason why nobody huge would want to take on Liverpool at this moment in time is because they're kinda average at this moment in time and the owners don't want to take on the responsibility of spunking another £50m.

Scarily enough, this is very very similar to when Mike Ashley gave Sam Allerdyce £50m only for him to buy such a shit squad filled with average players that he never trusted any manager again.

IF you get the correct manager then everything could be saved, but if your owners honestly don't know anything about football then we could see a whole host of mediocrity over the next few seasons. Maybe even relegation.

[Summers]

Well yeah, that's obvious >_>

I agree. I don't get the infatuation with Martinez. He comes across as a nice guy but... that's it. I'd rather go for Rodgers and I don't really want Rodgers.

Last season I would have took him over Eck, obviously. But this season we saw Wigan get spanked. A lot. Even the worst teams in the league (us, Wolves, etc) managed to beat them. They got some good results in a short run and saved themselves. Lambert or Rodgers would be MUCH better appointments than him. He wouldn't be on my shortlist even if it was of 10-15 realistic options.

[therockbox]

I do not know what Matt's point was myself. Of the available jobs in the league now, Liverpool is the one that is the most attractive. If there is money and backing from the owners any available manager would want it. I cannot see why not.

I'm not saying Pep Gaurdiola would want it or Capello. I could see a Villas Boas or a Benitez wanting it. Maybe some others who are currently at clubs. But if someone wants a big EPL job then that is the biggest you can get right now. I would be wary of appointing Martinez because I fear another Roy Hodgson.

My point was that it's the 6th best job in the Premier League, ideal for a young, promising manager. Martinez falls into that category and should be considered, not saying Martinez, himself, is definitely the best man for the job but that's the type of manager the 6th most attractive job should be going to.

Edit: And to clarify, this came from therockbox saying they should get someone who is proven at the top level, to which I responded A) Liverpool aren't really at the top level any more and B) how can someone get experience at the top level unless someone gives them the chance.

But the problem is the '6th most attractive job' isn't normally a club like Liverpool. In terms of the pressure and scrutiny placed on us, there's not many situations like it in football outside the giants across Europe. Roy, a much more experienced manager than Martinez, couldn't hack it.

A club with that level of pressure isn't the place for a young manager to prove himself.

[MGW]

Seven years? Liverpool finished second three/four seasons ago.

And getting into the latter stages of the Champions League in 2009.

Maybe Dan just isn't very good at counting?

CL winners in 2005, never hit that height again = downward.

Actually fuck it, I agree with rockbox, all hail rockbox and his wonderful knowledge of Liverpool.

Bloody armchair supporter.

Of course another champions league final and a second place finish with a big points total is nothing.

But it isn't winning something, is it?

Would you accept the appointment of, say, Mick McCarthy or Allardyce because of Villa's recent season?

That has nothing to do with anything.

Getting to the final isn't as good as winning it, which is what I was responding to.

Did I say anything about Liverpool should be happy to get Martinez because of last season? I really don't remember typing that.

Because I didn't.

You waded into a conversation that has basically been suggesting that.

The point about the league and CL final were brought up because Dan suggest we'd been on a downward spiral since 2005. That clearly wasn't the case, as we improved in the league right up until Benitez's penultimate season. The last few years have been poor, but I don't think sufficiently enough to get us to the point where we need to be taking managers from teams that have barely avoided relegation.

I waded in to say getting to the final isn't the same achievement as winning it.

I also don't think you, or we, should be after Martinez. Whelan thinks he's Jesus, but he's hanging on in there every season and not impressing. His team isn't improving.

Well yeah, that's obvious >_>

I agree. I don't get the infatuation with Martinez. He comes across as a nice guy but... that's it. I'd rather go for Rodgers and I don't really want Rodgers.

I agree that I'd rather have Rodgers over Martinez. I'm

Not sure who I'd want that we could realistically get. I said to mates yesterday when we sacked Kenny that we'd get Martinez, but as everyone has said he's not done a great deal at Wigan other than keep them up. There's no-one that's been mentioned that I think "ye I really want him".

[Summers]

My number one choice at Villa is Lambert, by a distance. I have a feeling it wont happen though.

[9 to 5]

The thing you have to remember about a team like Wigan is they don't have much money and tend to see their best players get taken off them for fuck all money. Not an easy job.