House of the Dragon (Game of Thrones) Thread

[SeanDMan]

Just now, The Chiksrara Special said:

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I feel like they could have easily gotten across how awful Ramsay was without doing what they did.

 

Maybe, but how do you show someone is truly evil but to have them do evil things?

There's an argument to be had about the way it was presented. How much you needed to see to know what was happening. A lot of times with horrible things, less is more.

But you and Josh both made the point that rape is one of those things that crossed a line. A line that says "okay, this guy was an asshole before, but now he's an absolutely reprehensible scumbag". You try and make a character like Ramsay as unlikable as possible sometimes even to the point where he makes people uncomfortable with the idea that when he dies, there is a cathartic release, a satisfaction that he got what he deserved. And I think there is a place for that in fiction because people like Ramsay exist in reality and, unfortunately, they don't always get what they deserve. So to have someone on screen get their just deserts can be a release for some people who have never had anything but stress about people like him.

Obviously this is stuff that is highly subjective and different people will feel differently. I accept that my view isn't going to be the same as someone with different experiences and I don't think I am more or less right. Since watching the first season of Oz, where a character is raped, assaulted, basically tortured, and then gets his revenge, I have felt like if you do it in a way that serves the story, nothing should be offlimits. You run a risk when you decide to go down certain roads that some people won't follow and I think that's why MPAA warnings are important. Let someone know if this episode is going to be something they don't want to watch. While it might be easier just not to include that content I think if it's part of the story you want to tell...

Tldr; to establish evil characters we have to see them do evil, and it doesn't get much more evil than abusing your wife.

[Your Mom]

43 minutes ago, SeanDMan said:

 

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Maybe, but how do you show someone is truly evil but to have them do evil things?

There's an argument to be had about the way it was presented. How much you needed to see to know what was happening. A lot of times with horrible things, less is more.

But you and Josh both made the point that rape is one of those things that crossed a line. A line that says "okay, this guy was an asshole before, but now he's an absolutely reprehensible scumbag". You try and make a character like Ramsay as unlikable as possible sometimes even to the point where he makes people uncomfortable with the idea that when he dies, there is a cathartic release, a satisfaction that he got what he deserved. And I think there is a place for that in fiction because people like Ramsay exist in reality and, unfortunately, they don't always get what they deserve. So to have someone on screen get their just deserts can be a release for some people who have never had anything but stress about people like him.

Obviously this is stuff that is highly subjective and different people will feel differently. I accept that my view isn't going to be the same as someone with different experiences and I don't think I am more or less right. Since watching the first season of Oz, where a character is raped, assaulted, basically tortured, and then gets his revenge, I have felt like if you do it in a way that serves the story, nothing should be offlimits. You run a risk when you decide to go down certain roads that some people won't follow and I think that's why MPAA warnings are important. Let someone know if this episode is going to be something they don't want to watch. While it might be easier just not to include that content I think if it's part of the story you want to tell...

Tldr; to establish evil characters we have to see them do evil, and it doesn't get much more evil than abusing your wife.

 

Spoiler

Look man I don't know. I agree with the sentiment I guess. But I feel like using that as a story device needs to be handled with a bit more subtlety and tact than this show has ever shown itself capable of. Like Mick's idea of cutting the Ramsay scene at that point I could have maybe dealt with. It's still horrible and lazy as a plot point but this show is just always so fucking crass with the subject.

 

[SeanDMan]

1 minute ago, The Chiksrara Special said:

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Look man I don't know. I agree with the sentiment I guess. But I feel like using that as a story device needs to be handled with a bit more subtlety and tact than this show has ever shown itself capable of. Like Mick's idea of cutting the Ramsay scene at that point I could have maybe dealt with. It's still horrible and lazy as a plot point but this show is just always so fucking crass with the subject.

 

I think Mick, myself, and you all agree that whether you want to include such stuff in your plots at all, this production team has left a LOT to be desired in terms of how they film it and present it. There's been some stuff on the show that made me somewhat uncomfortable and I am pretty easy going for the most part, so someone with more sensetivity to that sort of stuff... Yeah, absolutely, the showrunners should probably make different choices about what they show and how they show it.

[TCO]

6 hours ago, The Chiksrara Special said:

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See this is my point and why I hesitated to bring this up. What would these characters have to do to not deserve the chance at redemption? And you didn't bring it up but I am sick to fucking death of the "oh it's medieval times it was different" fuck off with that noise. Has any rape in this show forwarded the plot at all?

 

Spoiler

 

I literally didn't say that though. I didn't mention medieval times at all and said it was absent from the books and a strange choice by the show. Ramsay scene is also not in the book.

It's a show with some incomprehensible cruelty and rape is part of that. I get that this particular part of the violence is sensitive to you and you don't enjoy watching it but show is full of horrible stuff. It's never tried to hide that.

And rape by it's nature is heinous and doesn't make sense, so it's never going to make sense or advance the plot. The same with a lot of the senseless violence in the show. Like Ramsay literally flays people alive and castrated Theon, I don't understand how rape is the line in the show.

 

 

[Lint]

[MDK]

Spoiler

Why does Aidan Gillen almost always play someone scummy in anything I've seen him in?

 

[Skummy]

12 hours ago, The Chiksrara Special said:

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See this is my point and why I hesitated to bring this up. What would these characters have to do to not deserve the chance at redemption? And you didn't bring it up but I am sick to fucking death of the "oh it's medieval times it was different" fuck off with that noise. Has any rape in this show forwarded the plot at all?

 

Spoiler

Not to mention that it isn't "medieval times", it's a completely fictional fantasy setting, that the writers have made an active decision to fill with rape and incest.

 

[Benji]

Spoiler

 

How is that stuff hasn't even happened this season and we're still having this argument?

Move on, it never goes anywhere good and makes everyone feel shit about it. Just enjoy the fucking dragons and shit.

 

 

[Your Mom]

1 hour ago, Benji said:

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How is that stuff hasn't even happened this season and we're still having this argument?

Move on, it never goes anywhere good and makes everyone feel shit about it. Just enjoy the fucking dragons and shit.

 

 

Spoiler

Don't be a dick. It was all behind tags and I said if you weren't interested in talking about it then it was easy enough to skip over

 

[Benji]

Spoiler

Sorry, didn't mean to be a dick, it's just something we've gone over a lot of times and I saw it bothered you in the hate thread so I was trying to bring it to a halt so it didn't keep bothering you. I was actually trying to be considerate of you and phrased it badly >_>

 

[MDK]

I thought he was referring to me and Ser Pounce >:( 

[Benji]

It was more "those are Srar's feelings on the show and it's not your job to police how she feels about certain characters any more than it is her job to police ours" to be honest. But yeah, I phrased it badly and entirely see how it was misread. My bad.

[Bobfoc]

Moving to another topic, something in the finale brought up memories from previous episodes.

Spoiler

I'm referring specifically to the official confirmation that Jon/Aegon is the legitimate son of Rhaegar, and thus a true Targaryen. I've thought of some scenes and interactions during his Night's Watch days that are more interesting with this hindsight.

First, and most obvious, are Jon's conversations with Maester Aemon, particularly when he's considering deserting the Night's Watch to fight alongside Robb, and Aemon talks about how his own vows were tested when several of his family members were killed during the Sack of King's Landing. The discussion of such sensitive family matters with someone who was actually his own great-great nephew has an extra edge to it when you watch it back.

Perhaps a lesser considered dynamic is that between Jon and Alliser Thorne. Ser Alliser was a Targaryen loyalist during Robert's Rebellion and was sent to the Night's Watch for siding with the Crown. The fact that he proceeded to call the son of his own Prince "Traitor's Bastard" and then try to murder him would presumably lead to some tense conversations in the Westerosi afterlife.

 

[Lint]

A Neural Network Wrote the Next 'Game of Thrones' Book Because George R.R. Martin Hasn't

Apparently it came up with some crazy stuff...Sansa is now a Baratheon, Arya's new weapon on choice is a boot, and it created a new character named Greenbeard

[MDK]

4 hours ago, Lint said:

A Neural Network Wrote the Next 'Game of Thrones' Book Because George R.R. Martin Hasn't

Apparently it came up with some crazy stuff...Sansa is now a Baratheon, Arya's new weapon on choice is a boot, and it created a new character named Greenbeard

No, that is just @Mick playing the GoT mod on CKII.

[Mick]

20 hours ago, MDK said:

No, that is just @Mick playing the GoT mod on CKII.

 

You're not wrong. 

 

This made me lol:

 

 

 

[SeanDMan]

So this one is for you @The Chiksrara Special.

On the subject of people getting very excited about what happened to Baelish:

[Mick]

Read the season 8 spoilers. Could be real, could be fake. They're really more Schrodinger's Spoilers. 

What I'm going to do is only post the ending scene. This may or may not be true. 

 

You are warned and you have forfeited all right to complain about these. You may complain about the content  . 

 

 

Spoiler

 

Three years after the Great War: 

Yara rules Pyke. 

I have no clue what happened to Arya. Or Davos. 

Samwell Tarly is Lord of the Reach and Warden of the South. He is married to Lady Gilly, pregnant with their first child. Sam promises that Little Sam will one day be Lord of the Reach. 

Sansa Stark rules as Lady of the North and Lady of the Vale, Warden of the North and East from...Winterfell, presumably (or what's left of it). With her is Edmure Tully, Lord of the Trident and his wife, Roslin Frey. Everyone seems happy. Sansa in turn is married to: 

Gendry Baratheon, Lord Paramount of the Stormlands and Lord of Storm's End. He was given full recognition by the Regent, who in turn, also gave Dorne, to:
 

Ser Bronn of the Blackwater, married to one of Oberyn Martell's daughters. Maybe one of Ellaria's kids to remove any doubt of an heir. The Regent is: 
Tyrion Lannister, Hand of the Queen, Lord of the Westerlands and Lord of Casterly Rock, Warden of the West. He is either in a relationship/married to Missandei. Together they're raising the daughter of Aegon and Daeneyrs Targaraen: 

Queen Lyanna, First of her name, of the House Targaryen. Queen of the Andals and the Firstmen, Lady of the Seven Kingdoms and Protector of the Realm. 

 

AND IN THE LAND OF ALWAYS WINTER: 
 

Spoiler

A body is placed an an altar. It's Bran Stark. A ritual is performed and he opens his eyes. They're blue. A brick of solid ice forms around him. 

 

 

Everyone else from the main titles is dead. 

 

 

 

 

[Tigerstyle]

Definitely not. Sounds horrible like HIMYM

[Roster Depth Sicko No. 2]

Not a chance half of that is true.