The Clash/Sex Pistols. Punk or not?

[Guest Mr McFarlane]

Did you block her?

←

[Summers]

I wondered why you was never on MSN anymore.

[Guest Mr McFarlane]

I wondered why you was never on MSN anymore.

←

[Herr Matzat]

Why you have to go and make things so complicated?

[fineintent]

Definitely your opinion, because I'd say The Clash and The Sex Pistols are the ones shitting on Death by Stereo.

←

[Hobo]

To be honest, my opinion is that Punk music that is made today isn't really punk music. The likes of The Sex Pistols, The Clash and others were what at least in my mind are what punk music is and always will be. I really don't think punk music today exists. Say what you will but I will always think that Punk music died in the early '80s and what's being produced today just isn't punk it's regular rock music wearing in punk clothes. Just my opinion.

[YI]

To be honest, my opinion is that Punk music that is made today isn't really punk music. The likes of The Sex Pistols, The Clash and others were what at least in my mind are what punk music is and always will be. I really don't think punk music today exists. Say what you will but I will always think that Punk music died in the early '80s and what's being produced today just isn't punk it's regular rock music wearing in punk clothes. Just my opinion.

←

Edited July 14, 2005 by Funk Odyssey

[K]

I'm serious, people who spend hours organising bands into categories and genres need to step back and just start enjoying the music again.

No-one gives a shit about words like emo, screamo, grindcore, doom, viking metal, stoner rock, australian war metal, and all those other shitty words invented by pretentious elitist twats.

Just listen to the music you like.

[Hobo]

To be honest, my opinion is that Punk music that is made today isn't really punk music. The likes of The Sex Pistols, The Clash and others were what at least in my mind are what punk music is and always will be. I really don't think punk music today exists. Say what you will but I will always think that Punk music died in the early '80s and what's being produced today just isn't punk it's regular rock music wearing in punk clothes. Just my opinion.

←

Yes but what is 'punk'. Why aren't these bands 'punk'. Can a genre cannot develop and change itself, re-invent itself. What was called 'rock' 20 years ago isn't what isn't the same 'rock' as there is today. Does it stop any of them being 'rock'?

←

I've always felt that Punk in it's truest form no longer exists, when it was new when it was something different....now it's just another form of music. I just look at what is called punk now and just see a homogenised(sp) version. When I think Punk I think of The Sex Pistols, I think of The Boomtown Rats (to some extent), The Clash...I think the late '70's early '80's. Punks hay-day. I don't think of Green Day.

I'm sorry iwc, genres will always exist or else people would go crazy and not know what was what.

[FunkAsPuck]

Ask her why she thinks Anti-Flag are stupid? That's bugged me since I read it.

[Toe]

I'm serious, people who spend hours organising bands into categories and genres need to step back and just start enjoying the music again.

No-one gives a shit about words like emo, screamo, grindcore, doom, viking metal, stoner rock, australian war metal, and all those other shitty words invented by pretentious elitist twats.

Just listen to the music you like.

←

[MDK]

I am totally with IWC on this one, I fucking hate all these made up pretentious genres. Its getting silly now with all this noisecore post hardcore new wave NY softpornska rock. Damn you genres, damn you.

[Skummy]

Well....I get back from London looking for a topic to vent in and look what I stumble on to?

The Sex Pistols are pretty much synonymous with the word "punk", moreso than any other band in history, although some would argue that they are not in fact a punk band themselves, for reasons I will expand on later, not for the seemingly non-existent reasons of our misinformed young MSN girl.

I can understand how someone could assume that The Clash aren't a punk band. Especially in the later days, The Clash sounded nothing like the "punk" music around today, or the original "punk" music they once played, due primarily to their large reggae influence, they had effectively drifted into an entirely different genre, and could only truly be classed as punk because of their roots. If they relased "Rock The Casbah" before "White Riot", I doubt they would be labelled a punk band quite so readily.

Now The Sex Pistols I believe are punk in many ways, but in some ways not so. I'm not going to say I entirely agree with this argument, because I don't, but there are elements to it that I do agree with. A lot of older "punks" I know discredit the Sex Pistols influence, due to them being very much directed to make such an influence.

They weren't like The Stooges, The New York Dolls or The Ramones; they weren't out there making entirely new music, they were essentially cobbled together to cash in on the "punk" scene, and quite expertly so.

But then we get back to the great genre debate. Where does "punk" end and "punk-rock" begin? Punk is an attitude, a do-it-yourself, raw, powerful energy, whereas "punk-rock" is more about musicianship.

Ultimately, both the Clash and the Pistols are punk, but that's my opinion (and, presumably, the opinion of many more people too), but arguing over who is and isn't punk is fairly futile, everyone seems to have their own terms on which to define the word.

[Summers]

It's futile yes. But I just don't see how anyone can firmly say neither band are punk. Punk is.. maybe moreso was.. an attitude too, as are most genres of music, and both bands indeed had the attitude. As well as, IMO, the music.

[Skummy]

True. As I said, the only reason I can think for disputing the "punk-ness" of The Clash is through limited exposure, and only hearing there more reggae-tinged material and assuming that that's all they are.

The only reason I can think for disputing the "punk-ness" of the Sex Pistols is by going down the "manufactured band" route, but I doubt the MSN girl in question is aware of that. Sounds to me like you're dealing with a moron.

[Summers]

As already mentioned, she is from the same town as Kou.

[RPS]

Punk to me is a very much a combination of things not limited to fashion, attitude, and sound. Of course, there is a huge difference between bands like the Clash and the Ramones in terms of sound and to a lesser degree message. But it was their DIY attitude to music, this rebellion against a lot of different things that were prevalent in the music industry.

At the end of the day to sum up punk in a sentence: A bunch of misfits who got frustrated up with the state of the music industry and created a culture around this frustration.

[VerbalPuke]

After returning home from a Charged G.B.H show tonight, I can now tell you all what punk is.

I'm somewhat half joking, but I saw a great show. People of all ages (anywhere from 14-50+), dancing and crowd surfing together. It wasn't a huge audience, maybe 100-200 people, but everybody having a good time together. No bullshit, no age discrepancy (just jokes about the old folks having been there and done that in the 80s, as opposed to the rest us of youngins), just lot's of fun. A large variety of people, some with mohawks, some in addidas tennis shows and cargo shorts, but all having fun together. It was gratifying to see this music unifying so many people.

Also to add to what Pete said, alot of the early punk was pretty much stripped down rock and roll. Or in some cases, rock and roll sped up. It is/was fun music that people gravitate toward because of it's energy and raw nature. It should also be noted, that alot of people think of punk as nasty, blaring music. It is actually a fairly eclectic genre, and has produced some incredible musicians (as opposed to the idea that they are all terrible musicians).

[Dan]

No-one gives a shit about words like emo, screamo, grindcore, doom, viking metal, stoner rock, australian war metal.

←

I laughed so much it hurts.

[Farmer Reil]

Every time I think of The Clash, I think of Rock The Casbah. Then try and apply the word "Punk" to it, and burst into a fit of laughter.

I need to listen to more Clash