The official World Cup Quali Week thread

[lazy_arse]

Like Visionary said, anyone could've been the best player if the formation was to suit their needs.

He doesn't HAVE to be a great tackler,

A holding midfielder should have the ability to tackle.

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[therockbox]

But I don't think Beckham has the ability to do that. When I think of a holding player, I think of Hamann or Makelele. Beckham doesn't have their ability in that position, and him playing there leaves Gerrard and Lampard as bystanders, as well as allowing us to only play one of Owen, Defoe or Rooney.

[Guest Pirate Chasin' Booty]

The same people who rant about Beckham never getting praise, are the same people that'll fellate him even if he scored 13 own goals and raped their grandmas.

[The Kraig]

The same people who rant about Beckham never getting praise, are the same people that'll fellate him even if he scored 13 own goals and raped their grandmas.

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[Asuka's Gonna Kill You]

The same people who rant about Beckham never getting praise, are the same people that'll fellate him even if he scored 13 own goals and raped their grandmas.

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Edited September 8, 2005 by JohnnyPerfect

[Liam]

The same people who rant about Beckham never getting praise, are the same people that'll fellate him even if he scored 13 own goals and raped their grandmas.

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So we are not allowed to throw our support behind a player who gets shit whatever he does, even when he plays well?

And, at the end of the day, TRB, if you really think that the 4-5-1 was made JUST for Beckham (which I still doubt, but meh).....is it Beckhams fault? No...it's the manager who decided that he was important enough to base his formation around him.

A holding player, as many have said before, doesn't need to be able to tackle...and saying Beckham can't tackle is beyond me....fair enough, he doesn't do loads and loads, but he makes challenges, and is an outlet for the defence...which is exactly what a holding player should be.

And whatever you say, Gerrard and Lampard can't play good together, as they play too similar a game. You need Beckham and one of them, just to offer up some variation.

EDIT: And after re-reading some posts, sticking Carrick in ahead of any of the three (Lampard, Gerrard, Beckham) is laughable, personally. Carrick is good, but not that good.

SECOND EDIT: And for those who say Beckham should be stripped of captaincy, who do you replace him with as captain? He isn't the greatest captain, but there is no-one else that I believe can do it either.....you'd be able to tell if anyone could by how they act irrelevant of captaincy, yet no-one seems capable of doing it from what I see. Rooney is the only one who has the passion you need to be captain, it seems, but he's too young and ill tempered.

Edited September 8, 2005 by rvdwannabe

[Darloboy]

Scott Parker should be given a run in the England team, he's been playing well in a holding midfield role for Newcastle. Of course, Sven will never pick him cos it means leaving either Beckham, Lampard or Gerrard out, and that won't happen.

England's midfield for the World Cup, IMO, should be:

Wright-Phillips---Lampard---Parker---Joe Cole

Or possibly Ashley Cole instead of Joe Cole, with Wayne Bridge at left-back.

[Kanegetshighbysmellinhisarmpits]

And for those who say Beckham should be stripped of captaincy, who do you replace him with as captain?

[Visionary]

The same people who rant about Beckham never getting praise, are the same people that'll fellate him even if he scored 13 own goals and raped their grandmas.

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So we are not allowed to throw our support behind a player who gets shit whatever he does, even when he plays well?

And, at the end of the day, TRB, if you really think that the 4-5-1 was made JUST for Beckham (which I still doubt, but meh).....is it Beckhams fault? No...it's the manager who decided that he was important enough to base his formation around him.

A holding player, as many have said before, doesn't need to be able to tackle...and saying Beckham can't tackle is beyond me....fair enough, he doesn't do loads and loads, but he makes challenges, and is an outlet for the defence...which is exactly what a holding player should be.

And whatever you say, Gerrard and Lampard can't play good together, as they play too similar a game. You need Beckham and one of them, just to offer up some variation.

EDIT: And after re-reading some posts, sticking Carrick in ahead of any of the three (Lampard, Gerrard, Beckham) is laughable, personally. Carrick is good, but not that good.

SECOND EDIT: And for those who say Beckham should be stripped of captaincy, who do you replace him with as captain? He isn't the greatest captain, but there is no-one else that I believe can do it either.....you'd be able to tell if anyone could by how they act irrelevant of captaincy, yet no-one seems capable of doing it from what I see. Rooney is the only one who has the passion you need to be captain, it seems, but he's too young and ill tempered.

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[Liam]

I wasn't saying you don't have to be able to tackle, but you can get by without having GREAT tackling ability.

Yeah, John Terry is a possibility, for definite, but I assume they'd believe he's not yet experienced enough at International level (unless he's had a lot more caps than I've realised....)

[therockbox]

And, at the end of the day, TRB, if you really think that the 4-5-1 was made JUST for Beckham (which I still doubt, but meh).....is it Beckhams fault? No...it's the manager who decided that he was important enough to base his formation around him.

[Liam]

And, at the end of the day, TRB, if you really think that the 4-5-1 was made JUST for Beckham (which I still doubt, but meh).....is it Beckhams fault? No...it's the manager who decided that he was important enough to base his formation around him.

Which is why Sven should go, unless he grows a set and drops players when they don't perform (and Beckham hasn't performed on a consistent level for a long time).

Beckham and Gerrard/Lampard wouldn't work in the middle either, because none of them are holding players. In fact, out of the three, Beckham is probably the one who'd be worse at holding (and Gerrard and Lampard are both better going forward than him, so it's not worth sacrificing one of them).

A holding player, as many have said before, doesn't need to be able to tackle...and saying Beckham can't tackle is beyond me....fair enough, he doesn't do loads and loads, but he makes challenges, and is an outlet for the defence...which is exactly what a holding player should be.

Against teams like Brazil, France, Argentina etc., Beckham wouldn't offer the defence any protection. He's not good enough in that position.

EDIT: And after re-reading some posts, sticking Carrick in ahead of any of the three (Lampard, Gerrard, Beckham) is laughable, personally. Carrick is good, but not that good.

Except he's the only option (along with Parker). Gerrard and Lampard are wasted just holding, and Beckham can't do it (well enough. It's fine against 'small' team like N.I. and Wales, but when it comes to top teams he won't cut it).

And for those who say Beckham should be stripped of captaincy, who do you replace him with as captain?

Gerrard, Terry, Lampard. Beckham seems incapable of motiviting the team, whilst the first two have done it at club level. Even Beckham himself has said he's not a natural leader.

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I said sack Eriksson....I think that that was the final nail in the coffin...but why blame it on Beckham? He got stuck where his manager put him, and was far and away the best player we had, yet he still gets stick....beffudled.

Gerrard and Lampard are pretty much play exactly the same. With Beckham and one of the others in the middle, Beckham can then sit back and hold, and then leave the other two to rove (admittedly, Lampard does it more than Gerrard). Neither Lampard or Gerrard has the distribution skills the Beckham has, so by dropping Beckham you lose a big part of the game, the ability to turn defense to attack quickly, and to feed the forwards (as he does both better than Lampard and Gerrard).

Carrick just isn't good enough. Parker might be, and I like him, but he was stupid to move to Chelsea, and that ruined his chances.

And I miss how Beckham isn't good as a holding player? He gets the ball (either from the defence or by tackling) and then distributes the ball....that's really all they have to do. His tackling isn't great, yet it's not as if he is incapable of tackling, and at least he puts them in, and without being reckless like some players.

Terry, Lampard, maybe....as I said, Terry probably needs some more caps first...Gerrard...I dunno....I wouldn't pick him as captain over Terry or Lampard personally.

EDIT: Actually, if you think I am, I'm not saying Beckham should play a holding role, I'm just arguing for Beckham's inclusion (and his ability to play the holding role if required). Personally, I'd play a 4-4-2 with Beckham deep in the middle, and Lampard allowed to push forward (thus negating the need for a holding player...although Beckham sitting deep could be construed as such, I guess)

Edited September 8, 2005 by rvdwannabe

[Asuka's Gonna Kill You]

Scott Parker should be given a run in the England team, he's been playing well in a holding midfield role for Newcastle. Of course, Sven will never pick him cos it means leaving either Beckham, Lampard or Gerrard out, and that won't happen.

England's midfield for the World Cup, IMO, should be:

Wright-Phillips---Lampard---Parker---Joe Cole

Or possibly Ashley Cole instead of Joe Cole, with Wayne Bridge at left-back.

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[therockbox]

I said sack Eriksson....I think that that was the final nail in the coffin...but why blame it on Beckham? He got stuck where his manager put him, and was far and away the best player we had, yet he still gets stick....beffudled.

[MDK]

Beckham can't tackle. And Gerrard's distribution is sometimes on par with Beckham (as shown by the way he used to link up with Owen at Liverpool). We're at our best when we're playing quick, fluid football - and when Beckham hoofs it upfield we lose that. I'd much rather have Rooney, Owen, SWP and Gerrard/Lampard bombing it up the pitch on the break than Beckham hitting it fifty yards to Owen, only for him to be isolated and lose the ball.

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Fanboy much? Did you not see some of the balls Becks was playing?

[Liam]

Beckham can't tackle. And Gerrard's distribution is sometimes on par with Beckham (as shown by the way he used to link up with Owen at Liverpool). We're at our best when we're playing quick, fluid football - and when Beckham hoofs it upfield we lose that. I'd much rather have Rooney, Owen, SWP and Gerrard/Lampard bombing it up the pitch on the break than Beckham hitting it fifty yards to Owen, only for him to be isolated and lose the ball.

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Fanboy much? Do you not see the balls Beckham plays, as compared to Gerrards?

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Fixed slightly....as Beckham's distribution game to game has ALWAYS been better than Gerrard.

[therockbox]

Beckham can't tackle. And Gerrard's distribution is sometimes on par with Beckham (as shown by the way he used to link up with Owen at Liverpool). We're at our best when we're playing quick, fluid football - and when Beckham hoofs it upfield we lose that. I'd much rather have Rooney, Owen, SWP and Gerrard/Lampard bombing it up the pitch on the break than Beckham hitting it fifty yards to Owen, only for him to be isolated and lose the ball.

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Fanboy much? Did you not see some of the balls Becks was playing?

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[Liam]

Beckham can't tackle. And Gerrard's distribution is sometimes on par with Beckham (as shown by the way he used to link up with Owen at Liverpool). We're at our best when we're playing quick, fluid football - and when Beckham hoofs it upfield we lose that. I'd much rather have Rooney, Owen, SWP and Gerrard/Lampard bombing it up the pitch on the break than Beckham hitting it fifty yards to Owen, only for him to be isolated and lose the ball.

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Fanboy much? Did you not see some of the balls Becks was playing?

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He was able to play those balls at the expense of Lampard and Gerrard. Not to mention the fact that he wouldn't get that much time against top teams.

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Yeah, in that game, maybe it was at thier expense, but the simple fact is that Gerrard's distribution in general is nowhere near as good as Beckham's. Also, the fact that Lampard plays a better game in the middle of the park than Gerrard means to me, that if you'd play a 4-4-2, you'd stick Beckham to sit in the middle of the park, and allow Lampard a bit of free reign. Gerrard shouldn't ever be picked ahead of Lampard in the middle of the park either (which many seem to realise on the board, apart from you.....Lampard is a keeper, irrelevant of whether you dump Beckham, Gerrard, or anyone else)

[Visionary]

Beckham can't tackle. And Gerrard's distribution is sometimes on par with Beckham (as shown by the way he used to link up with Owen at Liverpool). We're at our best when we're playing quick, fluid football - and when Beckham hoofs it upfield we lose that. I'd much rather have Rooney, Owen, SWP and Gerrard/Lampard bombing it up the pitch on the break than Beckham hitting it fifty yards to Owen, only for him to be isolated and lose the ball.

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Fanboy much? Did you not see some of the balls Becks was playing?

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He was able to play those balls at the expense of Lampard and Gerrard. Not to mention the fact that he wouldn't get that much time against top teams.

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[Liam]

Beckham can't tackle. And Gerrard's distribution is sometimes on par with Beckham (as shown by the way he used to link up with Owen at Liverpool). We're at our best when we're playing quick, fluid football - and when Beckham hoofs it upfield we lose that. I'd much rather have Rooney, Owen, SWP and Gerrard/Lampard bombing it up the pitch on the break than Beckham hitting it fifty yards to Owen, only for him to be isolated and lose the ball.

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Fanboy much? Did you not see some of the balls Becks was playing?

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He was able to play those balls at the expense of Lampard and Gerrard. Not to mention the fact that he wouldn't get that much time against top teams.

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Yeah, in that game, maybe it was at thier expense, but the simple fact is that Gerrard's distribution in general is nowhere near as good as Beckham's. Also, the fact that Lampard plays a better game in the middle of the park than Gerrard means to me, that if you'd play a 4-4-2, you'd stick Beckham to sit in the middle of the park, and allow Lampard a bit of free reign. Gerrard shouldn't ever be picked ahead of Lampard in the middle of the park either (which many seem to realise on the board, apart from you.....Lampard is a keeper, irrelevant of whether you dump Beckham, Gerrard, or anyone else)

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That is an opinion and if you played Gerrard to his strengths as I have suggested with a proper holding midfield player then Gerrard would pull out top class performances. In my opinion Gerrard is more talented then Lampard, I mean lets face it the Chelsea team is a hell of a lot better then the Liverpool side which Gerrard often grabs by the scruff of the neck to pull out results. Have you seen a Liverpool side with Gerrard? They pretty much suck.

On another not Lampard has had one good season and has been pretty crap so far this season, so lets see if he can pick up his performances before we guarantee him a place in the England side.

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Lampard has played better for England than Gerrard has, as Gerrard has struggled to do much of note regularly, irrelevant of how they play for thier club (and arguably, I'd say Lampard played better for Chelsea than Gerrard did for Liverpool last season....but thats arguably). Fair enough Lampard has had one great season, but he's been good enough to play 150+ appearances in a row in a side of top class players. And similar to Beckham when he used to take England by the scruff of the neck and do things, now he doesn't have to due to the amount of players about him that can do it.....and thats the same with Lampard...we'll never know if Lampard can do it for Chelsea, as he doesn't have to grab the team by the scruff of the neck, but he still is the standout player (along with Terry) in a team of £20 million+ players. There is a reason he's on the verge of breaking the appearances in a row record playing for one of the best teams in Europe, because he is class.

Edited September 9, 2005 by rvdwannabe