MMA News and Discussion Thread

[Jayzon]

Let me quote Dana White himself to this point:

I'm not defending myself to people who don't know me and are all of a sudden all over me. I'm not homophobic and I'm not anti-gay. I used a word that I shouldn't have used and I hurt people.

It's extremely laughable that you'd come in here and jump over Dana for cussing. That's nearly as ignorant as what actually got Dana in "trouble". Quotations because it was blown out of proportion by people who don't watch or know Dana. And his apology was accepted by GLAAD as he had a conversation with them about it and is plainly stated in his interview with ESPN that I posted in here. Go read it.

I never claimed that I thought Dana White was being homophobic or misogynistic or whatever. People use words like "faggot" or "bitch" all the time without being hateful, just as people use the word "shit" without actually referring to feces. That's just fine by me.

My point is that with him being in an executive position in a somewhat big company, I find it unbelieveable that he would use such language in public. Call me old-fashioned, but the way I was raised, cursing and namecalling have no place in a civilized conversation. And civilized is, I believe, exactly what one should at least try to be when one is a president of a company. What Mr. White - or anybody else - says or does in their private lives, that's their business. But when you're an adult, and you unleash a barrage of profanities towards another person in public, you give a really lousy impression of yourself.

Okay, you might say that Mr. White doesn't give a damn about what impression other people have of him. But he SHOULD. He should at least realize, that whatever he, as the president of the company, does or says, immediately effects the image of UFC. And calling a reporter, no matter how misinformed or ignorant, a "fucking moron" or a "fucking dumb bitch" in public, sure does not help UFC in any way, shape or form. There would've been civilized ways of disagreeing and correcting the reporter's mistakes. "Whatevah, I can do what the fuck I want" is an extremely juvenile and immature attitude, one a person in his position should avoid at all costs. There's a difference between being a laid-back, "cool" boss, and being an offensive and immature brat. Sure, Mr. White apologized, but I'll bet he would have done nothing of the kind had he not been forced to.

This was not a personal attack against Dana White; I don't know the guy personally, why should I attack him? This was just merely my opinion on the situation, and how a person of certain stature should or should not speak in public. And I stand by it.

I have nothing else to add to this subject.

[ACCBiggz]

I never claimed that I thought Dana White was being homophobic or misogynistic or whatever. People use words like "faggot" or "bitch" all the time without being hateful, just as people use the word "shit" without actually referring to feces. That's just fine by me.

I never claimed that you did either. Although the use of the new "F" word should be erased from your vocab. In this day and age it is not an appropriate thing to say.

My point is that with him being in an executive position in a somewhat big company, I find it unbelieveable that he would use such language in public.

This is precisely why I said what I said. It's laughable, extremely laughable, that at this point you would come in here and be all upset at Dana White for cussing. It's just incredibly humorous and goes right to the point of Dana saying he isn't going to defend himself to people who don't know him. It's clear you've never seen Dana White speak at all and just randomly caught wind of this.

And calling a reporter, no matter how misinformed or ignorant, a "fucking moron" or a "fucking dumb bitch" in public, sure does not help UFC in any way, shape or form. There would've been civilized ways of disagreeing and correcting the reporter's mistakes. "Whatevah, I can do what the fuck I want" is an extremely juvenile and immature attitude, one a person in his position should avoid at all costs. There's a difference between being a laid-back, "cool" boss, and being an offensive and immature brat.

Actually, Dana White's bluntantness is what indeed endears him to the UFC fan base. He's an open-and-honest man who says what he says everywhere else. I absolutely love that quality in a person. I don't want someone putting up a front just because of his position, and you are lying to yourself if you think his bluntness has ever detracted from the success of the UFC. It has helped them to a great extent. The base of combat sports look at Dana and love his style of being hoenst and not being fake to them. He says what he wants when he wants and how he wants.

And the whole thing with the reporter, if it had been someone else it may have been different, but there is a long standing dislike with Sherdog from Dana White which only added fuel to the fire of his rant. And as I stated before, I have no problem with his rant outside of the use of the "f" word. It's something he should not have said.

Sure, Mr. White apologized, but I'll bet he would have done nothing of the kind had he not been forced to.

Ummm, Mr. White only apologized for using the "f" word. He never apologized for his rant. As I said to go back and read his interview he blatantly says that he meant every word he said directed towards Loretta Hunt and is only apologizing to those (the gay community) who he did not mean to attack. Just one more point that you have no idea what you are talking about and have no real clue as to Dana White.

This was not a personal attack against Dana White; I don't know the guy personally, why should I attack him? This was just merely my opinion on the situation, and how a person of certain stature should or should not speak in public. And I stand by it.

That's fine you stand by your point. But most of what you have said is false or misinformed to the character of the person you are talking about. As I stated in my first reply, you complaining about Dana "Fucking" White is extremely laughable.

[Thrilla]

And lets face it, he was cussing someone from Sherdog, he should be commended for it, really. >_>

Edited April 15, 2009 by NBT

[IAceI]

If I see Dana White and he isn't swearing, I feel let down to be honest.

[Adam Ryland]

But most of what you have said is false or misinformed to the character of the person you are talking about. As I stated in my first reply, you complaining about Dana "Fucking" White is extremely laughable.

It seems to me that you misinterpreted a lot of what Jayzon actually said. The entire thrust of his argument seemed to be that anyone who acts as a spokesperson for a company should behave in a certain way regarding what language they use - which is a valid point. You can disagree or find it old fashioned to say that somebody who fronts a large company should not swear, but it's certainly not "laughable" to suggest it. Attacking him because "that's not who Dana is" seems to miss the point - maybe I'm totally misreading it, but I thought he was pretty clear that the entire point was that it would apply to anybody in that position; whether he knows everything or absolutely nothing about Dana White is totally irrelevant to the point he was making. The fact White is known for his bad language doesn't mean it still can't be seen as inappropriate - at worst it's laughable to think he's likely to change, but not to believe that someone in his position should.

Again, maybe I misread it, but it just seemed that you were ripping into the guy for stuff he wasn't actually saying.

[Gabriel]

I think what's "laughable" in this situation, is the idea that someone with a certain title needs to act a certain way. He's a President of a company, so he has to dress nicely, keep his language PG and smile when someone says something untrue that makes him look like a dick?

Jayzon seems to have preconceived notions of what a President should be... but we live in an era where more and more people are realizing that those boundaries are man-made, and that they really don't need to be there. For every person out there who's saying that Dana White doesn't make a good company head, there's at least as many out there who applaud the fact that he's in your face, doesn't take any shit, and is a genuinely likeable and relatable man.

It's like in wrestling, where Triple H is the prototype of what a Champion used to be. Using the same logic, guys like CM Punk, John Cena and even, gasp, Hulk Hogan, should never have held the belt.

Times change, and you've gotta break down the walls and move with them, otherwise you end up with a bad hip, complaining to everybody about how things used to be "back in the day".

[ACCBiggz]

Perhaps I did misinterpret what he said, and I see his point about someone being the head of a company not swearing --- however, when he comes and singles out Dana White you have to take out generalizations. In general a head of a company would be told not to speak as such, but this isn't a generalised argument. He is/was speaking directly about the video blog and Dana White.

As such as this not being a general blanket statement that heads of companies shouldn't curse:

You can disagree or find it old fashioned to say that somebody who fronts a large company should not swear, but it's certainly not "laughable" to suggest it.

It is indeed laughable to come in and talk about Dana White in such a manner. As I pointed out one reason he got where he is, is indeed because of how he acts. I am stating that I find it laughable he is coming into a MMA thread and is complaining about Dana White cussing. That's... him. Anyone who has watched the UFC knows that's Dana. To watch, what I can tell from his complaint over this one vlog, one video and then complain that he curses --- is indeed laughable, it is... because I laughed when I read it.

He is comparing Dana to other heads of companies, which to me does not apply. And I'll have to disagree with your point about knowing everything or nothing about Dana White doesn't apply. Because by coming in and talking about a specific person in such a way, again to me personally, means you should know what you are talking about. I'll admit I am guilty of such a thing, as I'm sure we all are at times... but when he complains about Dana White cursing just because he's the head of UFC, you have to take more into account. If his only point is that presidents shouldn't curse, well, it's a valid point open for discussion. But I take issue with singling out Dana and saying he shouldn't curse when that is one of the endearing factors of Dana, and has essentially helped him and the UFC overall. But the notion of me using "laughable" is me finding it funny he is complaining about Dana White cussing, of which Chuck Liddell recently posted a Video Blog where he laughs over the same factor (although he is oblivious to what people were actually upset about as he never watched it).

[Adam Ryland]

but this isn't a generalised argument. He is/was speaking directly about the video blog and Dana White.

OK, I think we'll have to agree to disagree there - my reading of his post is the exact opposite of that, I think he went out of his way to make it clear that he was making a general point and Dana's situation just happened to be the trigger \ illustration behind it, which is why I thought it was unfair that he was getting ripped into about something that was fairly incidental to what he was actually saying; which is a shame, as I thought his central point was actually interesting, in that it does seem to be the case (as evidenced by Gabrial's post above) that anybody who actually disagrees with White's constant bad language seems to get instantly labeled as being old fashioned or out of touch.

[ACCBiggz]

as I thought his central point was actually interesting, in that it does seem to be the case (as evidenced by Gabrial's post above) that anybody who actually disagrees with White's constant bad language seems to get instantly labeled as being old fashioned or out of touch.

I think in general someone in a high position should be very politically correct and be of a historically professional tone. However, each position and situation is unique - which is where Dana White becomes the exception. I disagree with Gabriel with the "out of touch" line, as I don't think this is a new day and age where you just blurt out everything in public, and so on. Which is sort of hypocritical when talking about Dana White, but as I said, each situation is unique.

If more presidents acted like Dana White, I would enjoy it. Dana White is a figure who says what he wants, means it, and is an open and honest person. I prefer that to politically correct statue of a person. However, the reason above I say that someone in that position should be careful is strictly from a public relations point of view, and not from a personal one.

[Gabriel]

To break down my argument in it's most basic format... Political Correctness is destroying society.

Dana White has always been this way, and he made his ascension within the world of MMA, to become the president of the UFC, and hasn't changed a bit.

I don't understand why so many people are so quick to want to stifle personality and something unique, just because it doesn't fit with the status quo. I'm not meaning to say that anyone who disagrees is out of touch, or old fashioned... I'm just saying, I believe they're wrong to want to put restraints on these types of issues. That's what I believe, not necessarily what is cut and dry right or wrong.

[Jayzon]

But most of what you have said is false or misinformed to the character of the person you are talking about. As I stated in my first reply, you complaining about Dana "Fucking" White is extremely laughable.

It seems to me that you misinterpreted a lot of what Jayzon actually said. The entire thrust of his argument seemed to be that anyone who acts as a spokesperson for a company should behave in a certain way regarding what language they use - which is a valid point. You can disagree or find it old fashioned to say that somebody who fronts a large company should not swear, but it's certainly not "laughable" to suggest it. Attacking him because "that's not who Dana is" seems to miss the point - maybe I'm totally misreading it, but I thought he was pretty clear that the entire point was that it would apply to anybody in that position; whether he knows everything or absolutely nothing about Dana White is totally irrelevant to the point he was making. The fact White is known for his bad language doesn't mean it still can't be seen as inappropriate - at worst it's laughable to think he's likely to change, but not to believe that someone in his position should.

Again, maybe I misread it, but it just seemed that you were ripping into the guy for stuff he wasn't actually saying.

Yep, you got my point. I meant to present a generalized point, and using this recent case with Dana White as an example. And I bolded the part that I thought was the best in your post. Maybe the core UFC fanbase thinks it's good to have a cursing boss. I don't, I think a public figure for a company should be politically correct, at least to some extent. Definitely not cursing in public. Maybe that makes me a prude, I don't know. But, as always, to each his own.

Now for something completely different: I was watching reruns of the third season of The Ultimate Fighter the other night, and found out that Michael Bisping is all kinds of awesome. I watched all his matches I could find, and started liking him all the more. Now there's even more reason for me to be excited about UFC 100. If/when Bisping beats Henderson at UFC 100, he should definitely get a title shot. Michael Bisping vs. Anderson Silva, that's a money match right there.

Also, I was very surprised to learn that Matt Hamill is deaf. Wonder how he deals with it, is there an interpreter with him at all times?

[Gabriel]

Was that the first time you'd seen Matt Hamill? Because any time he fights, they mention it... and when he talks to Joe after, or in his pre-tapes, it's pretty obvious.

EDIT: I'm not sure Bisping is mentally ready for Silva yet. Would it draw? Yes... but I don't know how he would handle it if, like the majority of Anderson's opponents, he got picked apart and just dominated. I personally haven't seen anything out of Bisping that tells me he can handle that at this point in time.

Plus, he's gotta get by Hendo first, and truth is, I'll be picking Henderson for that fight.

Edited April 15, 2009 by Gabriel

[Jayzon]

Was that the first time you'd seen Matt Hamill? Because any time he fights, they mention it... and when he talks to Joe after, or in his pre-tapes, it's pretty obvious.

EDIT: I'm not sure Bisping is mentally ready for Silva yet. Would it draw? Yes... but I don't know how he would handle it if, like the majority of Anderson's opponents, he got picked apart and just dominated. I personally haven't seen anything out of Bisping that tells me he can handle that at this point in time.

Plus, he's gotta get by Hendo first, and truth is, I'll be picking Henderson for that fight.

Yeah, it was the first time I'd seen Hamill - or even heard of him. I have just recently started getting into UFC, and MMA in general. Actually the first whole show I watched was Lesnar-Couture, and before that it was random matches here and there. I've watched all of Lesnar's matches, though, as he was the guy that got me interested in UFC in the first place. But now I'm finding more and more things I like basically every day.

About Bisping mentally - he seems pretty strong, determined and self-confident. He has had matches that have ended in the first round, but he has gone the distance, too. And yeah, Anderson Silva would definitely be the favorite in that fight, but I think Bisping at least deserves a chance. He has a great record, and he has been dominant in many of his matches. And you know, anything can happen in the UFC. Noguiera-Mir was considered a piece of cake for Minotauro, but look who won. Sure, Bisping isn't the same as Frank Mir, but still, there's always the chance of a suprise.

Edited April 15, 2009 by Jayzon

[ACCBiggz]

I have just recently started getting into UFC, and MMA in general.

No offense, but that was blatently obvious by your post about Dana White. And as I said, in general I'd agree to the point about being politically correct as a head of a company, but when you single out a single person to make your point you get down to specifics and Dana isn't someone to use for that argument as he is the exception to the rule as his brashness and language is one of the reasons the UFC is where its at today.

And you know, anything can happen in the UFC. Noguiera-Mir was considered a piece of cake for Minotauro, but look who won.

I wouldn't go as far as "peice of cake". I picked Nogueira because I think on the ground he is better and I thought that is where the fight would end up, and Mir picked him apart. Nogueira's speed was nowhere to be found and I think his battles have caught up with him.

As for Henderson vs. Bisping. I'll likely take Henderson, but that fight SHOULD be 50/50 on betting lines because Bisping is quality. However, Henderson should be able to neutralize him with his wrestling and grab another decision.

But now I'm finding more and more things I like basically every day.

Time permitting I'd suggest these in order of viewing:

UFC 1

UFC 2

UFC 5

UFC 6

UFC 8

UFC 10

UFC 12 (This is where I would have suggested Ultimate Ultimate 1996, but thanks to injuries Ken and Kimo couldn't continue to fight Tank and Frye respectively)

UFC 13

UFC 14

UFC 15

UFC Japan

UFC 17

UFC 19

UFC 22

UFC 25

UFC 28

UFC 30 (First Zuffa Show)

UFC 31

UFC 34

UFC 35

UFC 36

UFC 39

UFC 40

UFC 43

UFC 44

UFC 47

UFC 49

UFC 51

TUF 1 Finale

UFC 52

TUF 2 Finale

UFC 60

TUF 3 Finale

Ultimate Fight Night 5

UFC 64

TUF 4 Finale

UFC 65

UFC 68

UFC 69

UFC 70

UFC 71

TUF 5 Finale

UFC 74

UFC 75 (Hammil vs. Bisping in the greatest robbery this side of John Dillinger)

UFC 79

UFC 81

UFC 82

UFC 84

UFC 86

UFC 88

UFC 91

UFC 92

PRIDE Documentary (forget the actual title)

PRIDE 1

PRIDE 4

PRIDE GP 2000 Opening Round

PRIDE GP 2000 Finals

PRIDE 10

PRIDE 12

PRIDE 13

PRIDE 16

PRIDE 17

PRIDE 21

PRIDE 23

PRIDE 25

PRIDE 26

PRIDE Total Elimination 2003

PRIDE Final Conflict 2003

PRIDE Critical Countdown 2004

PRIDE Final Conflict 2004

PRIDE 28

PRIDE Shockwave 2004

PRIDE Total Elimination 2005

PRIDE Critical Countdown 2005

PRIDE Final Conflict 2005

PRIDE Shockwave 2005

PRIDE 31

PRIDE Final Conflict Absolute

PRIDE 33

EliteXC: Destiny

EliteXC: Street Certified

EliteXC: Primetime

EliteXC: Heat

Strikeforce: Melendez vs. Thomson

Strikeforce: Shamrock vs. Diaz

DREAM 1

DREAM 3

DREAM 4

DREAM 5

DREAM 6

DREAM 7

DREAM 8

Just skip WVR and pick it up at the next card. Outside of that, this should be a comprehensive list for you to get caught up and in the mix.

[-A-]

I miss the likes of UFC 1 & 2 in particular. Why can't we have weird looking guys trying to use kung fu any more?

[ACCBiggz]

See: Sean Salmon.

[-A-]

I don't know who that is. Is he an actual salmon?

[Thrilla]

Look at Biggz and his Sherdog-esque posting >_>

Yeah, I'm gonna use that a lot now

[Jayzon]

Time permitting I'd suggest these in order of viewing:

UFC 1

UFC 2

UFC 5

UFC 6

UFC 8

UFC 10

UFC 12 (This is where I would have suggested Ultimate Ultimate 1996, but thanks to injuries Ken and Kimo couldn't continue to fight Tank and Frye respectively)

UFC 13

UFC 14

UFC 15

UFC Japan

UFC 17

UFC 19

UFC 22

UFC 25

UFC 28

UFC 30 (First Zuffa Show)

UFC 31

UFC 34

UFC 35

UFC 36

UFC 39

UFC 40

UFC 43

UFC 44

UFC 47

UFC 49

UFC 51

TUF 1 Finale

UFC 52

TUF 2 Finale

UFC 60

TUF 3 Finale

Ultimate Fight Night 5

UFC 64

TUF 4 Finale

UFC 65

UFC 68

UFC 69

UFC 70

UFC 71

TUF 5 Finale

UFC 74

UFC 75 (Hammil vs. Bisping in the greatest robbery this side of John Dillinger)

UFC 79

UFC 81

UFC 82

UFC 84

UFC 86

UFC 88

UFC 91

UFC 92

PRIDE Documentary (forget the actual title)

PRIDE 1

PRIDE 4

PRIDE GP 2000 Opening Round

PRIDE GP 2000 Finals

PRIDE 10

PRIDE 12

PRIDE 13

PRIDE 16

PRIDE 17

PRIDE 21

PRIDE 23

PRIDE 25

PRIDE 26

PRIDE Total Elimination 2003

PRIDE Final Conflict 2003

PRIDE Critical Countdown 2004

PRIDE Final Conflict 2004

PRIDE 28

PRIDE Shockwave 2004

PRIDE Total Elimination 2005

PRIDE Critical Countdown 2005

PRIDE Final Conflict 2005

PRIDE Shockwave 2005

PRIDE 31

PRIDE Final Conflict Absolute

PRIDE 33

EliteXC: Destiny

EliteXC: Street Certified

EliteXC: Primetime

EliteXC: Heat

Strikeforce: Melendez vs. Thomson

Strikeforce: Shamrock vs. Diaz

DREAM 1

DREAM 3

DREAM 4

DREAM 5

DREAM 6

DREAM 7

DREAM 8

Just skip WVR and pick it up at the next card. Outside of that, this should be a comprehensive list for you to get caught up and in the mix.

Heh, I don't have the time nor the interest to get THAT much involved in MMA. I'm not going to watch whole old shows for the sake of catching up. I've seen several matches from the early UFC shows, and some from PRIDE and EliteXC. I'll watch an old match here and there, but definitely not whole shows. That's quite enough for me. But thanks anyway!

Oh, and by the way, the very first MMA match I saw was Tony Halme vs. Randy Couture from UFC 13. Glorious.

[ZJ Penn]

PRIDE 10

This. Required viewing for anyone ever. Top to bottom awesome.