SPOILERS The Dark Knight SPOILERS

Protoman Version 2.5 · July 19, 2008

It was amazing, I was in simple awe and still am over a day later after seeing it. Some people have coined it and I think it truly fits when people call it the "Empire Strikes Back" of our generation.

As far as baddies...

Spoiler: Click here to view

To all the people talking about Black Mask as a potential bad guy, I don't know. Nolan at one point said that if he were to revive the Riddler, he'd make him a cyber terrorist. Which could be interesting to take the third installment in a completely different direction like each of them have gone in so far. Though he's since retracked the statement about ever using the Riddler in the movies, or in the near future at least. I'll get back to the whole Riddler thing in a moment though...

The reason why I don't think Black Mask would honestly work in the third installment is the subtle under tone of the movie. A theme that drives itself STRAIGHT from the pages of the Long Halloween & the Dark Victory, and it was done so friggin' well...most never even realized it. This movie beyond every thing else was showing the fall of the mafia, mobs and gangs that poluted Gotham City and the RISE of the freaks like the Joker & Two-Face & Scarecrow. I think from here on out to have any of it become a main threat again would be taking a step back in the franchise that they steadily took forward in the first two.

So, where does that leave us? Ra's, no body shown but his story was told and why bother revisiting it. Crane, unless he comes up with some thing drastic he's a few steps above a common thug and can't carry a entire movie...as shown by the fact he was used by both Ra's & Joker. The Joker, it would be a extremely risky move to recast though some one mentioned Johnny Depp and I could actually see that working. If nothing else as a temp voice for asylum scenes with Quinzel in the third to potentially carry on what they had in mind (which I immediately thought of and I think Zero mentioned, Joker being in a Hannibal role). Harvey Dent, no, the body wasn't shown but truthfully Dent's story has been told and to revisit it I think would taint the tragic tale told in this. I feel even more strongly about that than I do the Joker recasting oddly enough, despite me probably preferring Joker to Two-Face in the movie.

However, AMH was rumored to be playing Edward Nygma for some time in the flick and it turned out he was a news reporter but I don't believe they ever gave his name. Regardless as I was watching the movie I realized he didn't really have much of Nygma's look to him at this time. I did note that the Joker took him hostage and the thought had popped into my head that Joker might have decided to experiment after Dent. To try to convert more towards "his side", to make the freaks bigger in numbers and to test out what would happen with others. As its hard to believe the chaos Joker wanted for Gotham in that night could be done solely by him, the boats were meant to be a intro to it, not the main course. Any ways, what he DID look like to me...was an ideal Mad Hatter.

You take the cyber terrorist and blend it possibly with toxic gases like Crane's, and you could have yourself a more realistic version of the Hatter. Though I wouldn't expect him to solely be the man meant to co-carry the film with Batman, Crane could be revived once more & Hatter could be a minor role as well. Maybe throw in a few more inspired or converted by the Joker along the way, bringing in a few lesser known of the rogue gallery like the Talley Man & Deathstrike. With them playing back drop to Batman versus the police, making it so the entire city is against him while Joker uses Quinzel as a informant after some smooth talking to keep updated on what's happening on the outside. Using him in such a way that you wouldn't have to show him much, making it ideal to ease the viewers into a recast or stall to give them time to figure some thing out.

In the midst of Batman trying to take care of the Hatters & Cranes of the world and the emotional struggle between Gordon & him as Gordon is forced to hunt him, enter the third main & top baddie. Some one that is realistic enough to be played off and some one that quite frankly, needs redemption in this friggin' franchise. After all these fights, after all the toll Batman's put through, you bring Bane into the picture more fully and he explains how he's been watching Bat (possibly using key flash backs to certain scenes where a shadowy figure was watching, ect) & waiting. Waiting till it all caught up to him and in a mixture of the Dark Knight Returns & the storyline that made Bane famous, they do battle. Quite possibly leading to the truth of sorts being exposed, and Gotham coming to terms with what Batman is, maybe by saving those caught in the cross fire between the carnage of police vs. freaks vs. Batman.

While leaving the door open for a part 4 if they wanted to do one, with the Joker still lurking in the asylum and the seed planted of Quinzel being attached to him & lending herself to his break out.

Course, I also really liked the idea of some thing similar to the Holiday murders or just using Calendar Man. Sure he's far from the greatest bad guy but if used correctly, he wouldn't need to be. As well as it could take the Batman franchise in a different direction than its honestly been in before & show more of Bruce's detective chops. A murder flick of Batman trying to stop these holiday themed murders as the police try to catch both men would be interesting.

Least to me.

Heh, figures my first post back on here after my comp issues would be about this flick...

TGC · July 19, 2008

The domestic box office went into overdrive on Friday as Warner Bros.' Batman sequel "The Dark Night" stood ready to deliver the best opening day gross ever, taking in an estimated $60 million to $63 million in ticket sales from a record 4,366 theaters.Universal's film adaptation of musical "Mamma Mia" was no wallflower, either. The Meryl Streep-Amanda Seyfried starrer -- the ideal counter-programming -- looked headed to gross an estimated $9 million to $10 million from 2,976 theaters on Friday.

"Dark Knight," toplining Christian Bale and directed by Christopher Nolan, could nab the highest opening ever for a non-holiday weekend if business stays as strong as expected on Saturday and Sunday. Previous record-holdover for both opening day and best opening for a non-holiday weekend is "Spider-Man 3."

"Spider-Man 3" made $59.8 million on its opening Friday, and $151.1 million for the weekend.

The critically acclaimed "Dark Knight" is Nolan's follow-up to "Batman Begins," which grossed $15 million on its opening day in June 2006, and $48.7 million for the weekend.
"Dark Knight's" transformation into the event film of the summer confirms that Warners and Nolan have successfully relaunched a franchise that has seen several stops-and-starts. "Dark Knight's" appeal is due at least in part to the late Heath Ledger's performance as the Joker. Aaron Eckhart, Maggie Gyllenhaal, Morgan Freeman and Michael Caine also star.

In terms of its weekend opening, "Mamma Mia" should open in the neighborhood of "Hairpsray," which debuted to $27 million on the same weekend a year ago. One mitigating factor could be the oxygen being taken up by "Dark Night."

If Friday's surge in theater traffic continues through the weekend, the frame could bring the best box office gross overall for a non-holiday weekend.

"Dark Knight's" Friday haul includes an estimated $18.5 million in midnight shows, beating the previous midnight record set by Fox's "Star Wars, Episode III: The Revenge of the Sith" which grossed $16.9 million from 3,663 venues.

So at this point, not counting Saturday and Sunday obviously, TDK has made roughly $78 million, and hasn't even opened up worldwide yet. Wow and damn. I think it is conceivable to think that by Sunday Night the movie could have made just shy of or just over $200 million domestic only. With a budget of $180 million not counting promotion, the fucking thing will be in the black by Monday and hasn't opened in the UK yet, amongst other places.

Momo · July 19, 2008

Wow. It's really that good. I have never gone to see a movie twice in the cinemas, but for this I did, and I am so glad. The second time around, I noticed all the little things, the foreshadowing, the little bits of dialogue that you don't really take in the first time because you're concentrating instead on what's actually occurring, all of it.

A little thing I've noticed in this thread is that people have really only been commenting on performance and story. The costumes, I think deserve a huge amount of praise.

Spoiler: Click here to view

In the scene where the Joker is sitting in his cell, and he doesn't have his purple coat on (which in itself was awesome) and you can really fully see the rest of his get up, it just looked amazing and complete. The make-up was perfect, added a lot to his performance. Really well done. No matter where it is, the costume worked really well, even in the scene with the Joker hanging upside down. Also, the nurses outfit + the way he was trudging around in it = awesome.

And now Harvey Dent. After he has become Two Face, and half of his suit mirrors the burns he has on his face. It could have been really cheesy, but they managed to pull it off perfectly, and it all came together to display the shattered man that he had become.

Batman, most specifically the scene in Hong Kong where he jumps off the building, visually stunning. Fantastic work. My one gripe with the regular Batman costume however is the yellow buckle in the centre of the belt. I know that it's a part of the actual costume, but I think the belt and the overall outfit would look better if the belt just had a plain black clip.

Now onto the performances, Heath Ledger is wow. Really. I've never seen a performance that convincing before. It was creepy how good he was at being psychotic.

Spoiler: Click here to view

I think the "magic trick" will be remembered for a long time to come. It was so incredibly unexpected, and hilarious, and haunting all at once, and he delivered it so well. I'd have to say, the only part I would be disappointed in would be when they come up the elevator to kill Harvey in Bruce's penthouse. Just the entrance, everything else was spectacular.

Eckhart deserves a fair bit of credit for his character too. I felt Dent was a little plain though, or at least until after Gordon was "killed". Of course, Eckhart couldn't be blamed for that. But after that point, his character really started to pick up. Great performance from him.

And finally, onto sequel talk.

Spoiler: Click here to view

I want the Joker in the next one. I really want the Joker in the next one, though I don't want his face to be seen. Just from behind, or even not at all, until an escape near the end where it's revealed who his next portrayal should be by. Maybe a few extra scars around his eyes and on his cheeks or something to kind of give a bit of a reason for him looking slightly different. Nothing too major, but they need to get someone with as spectacular control over their voice and facial expressions as Heath Ledger did, and preferably, someone who sounds similar, because I think the haunting thing about the Joker was his voice.

The next villain, I think should be freeze. With someone like the Penguin or Catwoman playing second fiddle. Freeze could easily be portrayed as another soul corrupted by the damage caused by the Joker. Joker's threat of destroying the hospitals having caused his wife to be unplugged/blown up/whatever. Obviously there are quite a few kinks, though I'm sure something could be worked out.

All in all, probably the most spectacular film experience I've ever had.

TGC · July 19, 2008

Spoiler: Click here to view

ONO · July 19, 2008

Spoiler: Click here to view

I agree about Freeze, that would be horrible. It was horrible last time, and Freeze isn't even a proper bad guy at heart.

RoyWill Rumble · July 19, 2008

Not only could this movie be the record holder for opening weekend box-office, but I could conceivably see it being the top grossing film of all time. Seriously.

And I get to see it today.

And fuck, I'll probably see it at least one or two more times depending on friends who won't be cunts and money.

And fuck, I'll pick up the DVD the first day it comes out.

King. · July 19, 2008

I'm really hating all of the Johnny Depp talk. I think he'd be a horrible choice if someone were to pick up where Ledger left off. He's not the only man in Hollywood who could pull this off. I'm mainly saying that because Depp isn't even a method actor, which Ledger used to get to where he needed to be with the role.

The one person I'm shocked no one has mentioned is Daniel Day Lewis. He has the talent, as well as the similiar approach to a role that Ledger had, not to mention the ability to completely transform himself.

DMN in the House · July 19, 2008

DDL is a great, great, actor, but I don't think he fits the mold of The Joker. As for Depp, if anything, I'd love to see him as Riddler.

Oh, and before I forget... other personal favorite moments.

Spoiler: Click here to view

As far as a sequel...

Spoiler: Click here to view

KingofKings24 · July 19, 2008

Wow, that was by far the greatest movie ever. I came in expecting the best movie I've ever seen and it was that and more. Heath Ledger's performance was amazingly brilliant, he captured the homicidal Joker perfectly, if he doesn't get an Oscar then I can't see anyone else deserving one.

Christian Bale was good, but I personally can't find myself getting into the intense "Batman" voice.

As for a sequel

Spoiler: Click here to view

I can't see Catwoman, Penguin, or Freeze at all. I can however, see another Riddler/Two Face combination although I don't know if Two-Face is actually alive. I think a plain Riddler would be awesome and if it was captured in the same dark Gotham that TDK had it could also be an amazing movie.

Maxx · July 19, 2008

Spoiler: Click here to view

-No Riddler, ever please. He is and has always been a joke of a villian. Damshow is touting Hush as an example of when he became "legit" but please, that was all revealed in a 2 page afterthought which seemed like a "Hey take The Riddler seriously!" statement on behalf of DC. Then what happened after Hush? In Gotham Knights he got threatened and ran for his life, posing no threat, back to what he used to be. He's a 2 bit criminal with a gimmick, and you're never going to get him to be taken seriously without completely changing the character. Unlike so many of Batman's villians, Riddler is just a theif, he's not a murderer, he's not out to kill people. To make him fit, you'd have to be unfaithful to the character, and then whats the point of even using him?

-The Nolan Co. have worked very hard to make this Gotham a very dark place, you're going to have to use a villain that fits into that world. Riddler, Mad Hatter, they're all too "light." In the wake of the chaos The Joker caused, I doubt a guy committing crimes and leaving riddles behind would strike fear in the heart of Gotham. If they were going to use Riddler, they should have used him in the first film, as the villains in Batman should be escalatNowing FROM him, not TO him.

-With that being said I have no idea where they're going, more Two Face seems like the obvious choice. With Black Mask, it could be interesting as he could be a villain that is making both sides of Bruce Wayne's life a living hell, without knowing it. Roman Sionis could be the head of a major corporation thats competing and perhaps threatening to put Wayne Enterprises out of a buisness, meanwhile as Black Mask he's carving his way through the Gotham City underworld, taking that over too. Now, the threat to Gotham isn't as high as it was with Joker, but I doubt anyone will present a threat that great and thats how it should be. However, the threat to Bruce Wayne is much greater. Set up Black Mask like that and you've got yourself a villain who could have reason to go after Lucius Fox and Alfred, the two characters that seem kind of untouchable by other villains, and two final support structures for Wayne. You get someone like Denzel Washington or Jamie Foxx to play that role and you've got yourself a movie.

-When it comes to Bane, please no. He comes off to me as a very forced villian. He was created to do one thing, then he did it and he's done nothing of note since. He's just like Doomsday, the character is one dimensional, created with the sole purpose of pushing a hero past their limits. Not a fan of having a villain created for that purpose, it should be someone already established that gets that honor. I don't think Bane is really well known enough to warrent being the main villian of a film. at least Black Mask has been a central villain in the comics for the last few years.

-As for recasting The Joker, you all make me laugh. You say there's no one in Hollywood that could do something like Ledger did, or class Daniel Day Lewis as the type of actor that wouldn't do it? Um...I don't remember many of you thinking Ledger would be doing something incredible when he was cast, he didn't come off as the type of actor that had that in him. And he really didn't seem like the type of actor that'd do it anyways. So we throw in Johnny Depp, who's become Hollywood's easy way out when you need someone for a character who's a little out there.

The problem with recasting The Joker is: Do you want someone doing exactly what Heath did? Or do you want someone offering their own take? Lets not forget, Heath said he wouldn't be using Nicholson's performace as any kind of inspiration, because he didn't want to come off as just doing a impersonation of Jack doing Joker, so I really doubt he'd want someone just doing an impersonation of Heath doing Joker. The Joker is one of the few characters who could be played completely differently and it'll be okay because of how the character is.

So, my recasting choices...

For Heath Impersonations: Johnny Depp, James Marsters, Guy Pearce, Adrien Brody

For People Doing Joker Their Way: Daniel Day Lewis, Benicio Del Toro come to my mind.

Ben Foster and Jude Law could go either way.

Edited July 19, 2008 by Maxx

DMN in the House · July 19, 2008

Agree to disagree on a few things, Maxx. I don't see DDL as a good 'Joker'. He just doesn't fit what I'm looking for in terms of what I'd want. I'm sure he could pull it off, and would probably be a better choice than Depp, but I'm just not feeling him as Joker. Of course, I would have (and maybe did, fuck if I know) say the same thing about Ledger, and we all know (or will know, I assume) how that turned out.

Villains

Spoiler: Click here to view

prime time · July 19, 2008

I went to see it Thursday at midnight and with 20 minutes left, the reel caught fire and I didn't get to see the end. Thankfully, I got off work early last night and went again to see the whole thing, even the second time the movie just flies by, so damn good.

TGC · July 19, 2008

I hope they vouchered you guys that got fucked.

Maxx · July 19, 2008

Spoiler: Click here to view

I agree they wrapped everything up with Dent pretty well, which is a shame cause he could have carried a third film. Bane always seemed like a cheap way out to me. They sat down, figured okay we want to push Batman past his breaking point, how can we do that? Instead of using his already established villains, which would make much more sense and push them to a whole other level, they took an easy way out and created a guy who served no purpose other than that.

You probably know Bane because he's gotten a shot at being better known. They used him in a movie, he was in the cartoon and he was created and put into a major Batman story arc. Black Mask has been around for awhile, but he's been getting quite a push in the last decade. He's becoming alot better known now. He was the main crime boss in Gotham for the past few years in the comics, he's appeared in Batman video games and that new Batman cartoon they've got around. He's the best they've got in terms of villians you haven't seen yet and he's the one that fits best in the world Nolan has created.

As for the Joker, I have a feeling if they recast him, its going to be another left field choice that none of us saw coming.

gunnar hendershow · July 19, 2008

Spoiler: Click here to view

Edited July 19, 2008 by damshow

Johnny Latino Heat · July 19, 2008

Fuck, I'm so hyped for this and the movie only starts showing here next week :crying:

Protoman Version 2.5 · July 19, 2008

Here's the problem with Holiday...

Spoiler: Click here to view

It was three people, one of which is dead in Harvey Dent, one of which was his wife & doesn't exist in this cannon in Gilda Dent, and another was a crime boss' kid. The last of which's daddy got taken out in Begins and is now a mad man at the asylum thanks to Crane. While you could use him, you take some key points out of the story by losing the Dents and losing the mob boss. As that was a big part of that story, the rise & fall of the powers that be in Gotham with the mob & the freaks and the rebirth of Harvey Dent as Two-Face. However, Calendar Man who served in a Hannibal role in that story killed in pretty much the same way, all on holidays (thus why Batman went to him to begin with), and with some minor retweaking he could easily fit into the mold of what's needed.

As far as Bane is concerned, yes, he was already in a movie but...his origin and personality were nothing close to what they've ever been in any other media. He played a big muscle bound enforcer in that flick, that's it, nothing more, nothing less to him. When Bane as a character has the potential and as shown can be much more than just a brute. Thus why I brought him up, he had such a minor role that its easy to forget he was involved with the worst Batman film ever.

As for those saying the Mad Hatter can't be taken seriously...are you kidding me? A guy dressing himself up as the Mad Hatter, quoting C.K. Lewis' books & trying to theme his murders around them and abducting young girls named Alice isn't demented? If done right, it could be taken to a very dark place, especially if they touch upon a element that the comics have from time to time. The reason as to why Hatter only seems to fancy little girls named Alice that he tends to want to kill the moment they aren't his ideal Alice from the books.

But I do understand why some people might not be able to see the potential with Hatter if they've only seen his cartoon self or very little of him in the comics. Likewise I can understand the logic behind implanting a new bad guy but as I said, with the stakes as high as they are now in Gotham...I just can't see Black Mask working. I like the character but he's basically a mobster that saw a little too much Captain America/Red Skull for his own good () & Nolan himself has said that the movies were about the fall of the mobsters & rise of the freaks. Bringing in gang lord, Black Mask would be taking a step back in the evolution of the films.

Though there is a scenario that popped into my head that I hadn't considered before which I like about as much as the minor baddies/Bane & Calendar Man murder case ideas. They tweak No Man's Land arc and bring it to the big screen, like, with the police hunting Batman, he's not been able to do his job as well. So, slowly its been building, and you could introduce a varying number of problems depending on how you wanted to go about it, including guys like Black Mask & Hatter & Riddler without trying to make them solely carry the entire flick. Eventually turning Gotham into such a dangerous place that it is declared, like in the story arc, a No Man's Land, leaving Batman & a select few (quite possibly Gordon) to try to clean it back up & save it by themselves (in now a city more or less full of freaks). If done correctly (including a few Joker in the asylum scenes about how a storm is brewing & the weather's changing, ect) it could be a amazing story & one that's Summer Blockbuster friendly with all the action put into it.

I think part of the excitement really about if there is a third is that there really is many different ways they could take it from here. Even with the element that the ending gave us, it leaves a lot of things open and a alot of roads for them to walk down if they wanted.

zero · July 19, 2008

Spoiler: Click here to view

EDIT
And awesome to hear that it shattered Spider-Man's one day total. Hopefully it goes onto have the biggest opening weekend in history. Edited July 19, 2008 by Zero

TGC · July 19, 2008

I had a splendid post that got lost and I can't be fucked to retype it all now, but I will say that there will be a third movie. Upon the success of Batman Begins it was announced that all the principles, Goyer, and Nolan had signed on to do three. Plus you don't make over 80 million in one day and not get a third movie made. It might be another three years, but it's going to happen.

zero · July 19, 2008

There has to be a third movie, but I think they should close it out at a trilogy and make it this generation's Star Wars.

From there, do one-offs with the franchise like they do with comics. Give us The Dark Knight Returns as a movie put in a modern-day setting, it's just as relevant now as it was in the 80s (one could argue even moreso).

*SPOILERS* The Dark Knight *SPOILERS*

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SPOILERS The Dark Knight SPOILERS