Doctor Who

[Skummy]

I also liked it. And an additional +1 for acknowledging the Brigadier's passing.

Yeah, that scene was incredible. Really shocked me when it happened, but really quite moving. I loved the whole episode - it was flawed, but it worked, and it was fantastic. For the last couple of years we've been speculating "does River kill the Doctor?" and "is River the Doctor's wife?", and it's actually kind of nice that they didn't swerve us with it. The whole episode was the right mix of good fun and fantasy babble, and even though the fate of TIME ITSELF hung in the balance, it never felt like an overblown melodrama like every single RTD series finale.

I also like how Rory, yet again, was a soldier dedicated to protecting Amy - and him standing up to the Silence, his eye-thingy already trying to kill him, was fucking bad-ass. And then just confused and accepting "we have a kid, and it's her", "okay". And The Silence calling him "One who dies and dies again" - I still think there's more to him than we know about. Amy too.

I guessed straight away that the Question was "Doctor Who?", but we've yet to really learn why that's so important to the universe, or why he'd be running from it...

[Timmoru Suzuki]

On the whole I wasn't a fan. I like answers, not more questions. For two years in a row, Moffats' build > the finished product, BUT, the Brigadeer scene choked me up, Rory was understated but brilliant again, and Matt Smith > .

Edited October 2, 2011 by Yoshihiro timmayyama

[fr34k]

It was okay I guess.

[Skummy]

I kind of like how Moffat's writing follows roughly the same pattern as RTD's - dropping buzzwords and key phrases throughout the entire season - yet subverts it at the end by either leaving them unresolved, or having them mean something completely different to what was expected. The fact that "The Silence Will Fall" is effectively still unanswered is brilliant to me, far moreso than if everything had just been tied up neatly at the end of the series. I much prefer leaving a few things unresolved at the end, but tying up the key points - which, for this season, was the Doctor's "death".

[Daniel Bryan]

The more I think about it, the more the ending seems like a cop-out. The whole season's been built around the Doctor's death, and then it's just, "lol, it wasn't actually him." I didn't see it coming, but only because I thought the show would be better than that. It's cheap, lazy writing.

Why did he marry River? What was the point of that, other than to justify the title of the episode? And why all the needless secrecy? I get he wanted people to think he was dead, but once the four of them were alone and, y'know, the universe was disintegrating, he could've just said, "Look, I've got a plan. I'm not really going to die. Trust me, I'm the Doctor." And if it was the suit doing all the work, why did the the Silence even bother with the whole River Song plan in the first place? Literally anyone in the universe could have done that.

The whole episode was just pointless faffing about, while a bunch of crap happened for no reason, and no actual payoff at the end. I think Moffat's best when he sticks to small, self-contained stories. When he tries for larger scale stuff it just becomes a big nonsensical mess.

[fr34k]

The more I think about it, the more the ending seems like a cop-out. The whole season's been built around the Doctor's death, and then it's just, "lol, it wasn't actually him." I didn't see it coming, but only because I thought the show would be better than that. It's cheap, lazy writing.

Agreed, but it was obvious once the question "Can't we do anything else for you?" was asked. It could have been done better, but if you are expecting to shake up the status quo of the series this will not happen. They cannot let the doctor die for good.

Why did he marry River? What was the point of that, other than to justify the title of the episode? And why all the needless secrecy? I get he wanted people to think he was dead, but once the four of them were alone and, y'know, the universe was disintegrating, he could've just said, "Look, I've got a plan. I'm not really going to die. Trust me, I'm the Doctor." And if it was the suit doing all the work, why did the the Silence even bother with the whole River Song plan in the first place? Literally anyone in the universe could have done that.

1. He married her because he knew he had to marry her and wouldn't see her again in quite some time after his 'death'. River always talked about the fact that they are married.

2. If he told them that, his whole 'I'm going to lay low for a while' plan would not have worked out at all - although it didn't actually work out because River obviously couldn't keep her mouth shut .

3. I do not know for sure, but probably because they have a very close connection. Anyone else, except maybe other companions (who were already grown up) would have to fight the doctor before killing him.

The whole episode was just pointless faffing about, while a bunch of crap happened for no reason, and no actual payoff at the end. I think Moffat's best when he sticks to small, self-contained stories. When he tries for larger scale stuff it just becomes a big nonsensical mess.

I disagree. It wasn't really nonsencial, as I explained to some degree at least. Yes, it could have been way better, especially when considering the huge buildup all of this got, but in the end it was always obvious that the Doctor wasn't going to die forever because he is the motherfucking Doctor.

[Colly]

It was decent enough, but the last few minutes were ridiculously rushed, from the 'you think he's dead, actually he's not' craptacular scene to the anti-climactic Doctor Who finale. Hope the Christmas one is decent if thats the cliffhanger til next Autumn.

[Katsuya]

I think the problem was that it just didn;'t have any pomp and circumstance about it. The mid-season finale felt like a much bigger occasion at the end than this did, because...well, nothing really happened at the end of this. The only thing that really happened of any real relevance is the fact that Madame whatsherface is dead. We're no closer to really knowing the whole deal with The Silence. Amy, Rory and River clearly aren't finished with the Doctor. I'm not saying it needed huge actions scenes and loads of special effects like an RTD finale, but it just felt like any other episode in most parts. It probably should have been a two-part or slightly extended episode and they could have explained things a lot better.

[stokeriño]

Some day people will find the balance between "that was yet another ridiculous overblown finale" and "that wasn't big enough a payoff for a finale" and be happy with it. I'm not holding my breath though.

Besides, if they're going to be limited to 13 episode series (being British and all), I kind of like the idea of the plot being more gradual/disjointed/meandering in its development. It's not like your classic US drama (~24 eps per season for several seasons in a row) is compelled to have endless crescendos of ever-increasing significance - so why expect it of a series that will probably continue for frikkin' decades hence?

[AnnIQ Edison]

I half called the switch at the end that stops The Doctor from dying. I just thought that it would be that flesh stuff instead of the Tesselector. It was always going to be something along those lines and they have been developing a "things that can mimic others" sub-plot for ages.

[Twist]

I think the problem was that it just didn;'t have any pomp and circumstance about it. The mid-season finale felt like a much bigger occasion at the end than this did, because...well, nothing really happened at the end of this. The only thing that really happened of any real relevance is the fact that Madame whatsherface is dead. We're no closer to really knowing the whole deal with The Silence. Amy, Rory and River clearly aren't finished with the Doctor. I'm not saying it needed huge actions scenes and loads of special effects like an RTD finale, but it just felt like any other episode in most parts. It probably should have been a two-part or slightly extended episode and they could have explained things a lot better.

Given what River said to Amy about the timeline having never happened, in a reality that never existed, etc. when Amy was feeling guilty then I wouldn't be surprised if we see her again.

[Hobo]

I kind of like how Moffat's writing follows roughly the same pattern as RTD's - dropping buzzwords and key phrases throughout the entire season - yet subverts it at the end by either leaving them unresolved, or having them mean something completely different to what was expected. The fact that "The Silence Will Fall" is effectively still unanswered is brilliant to me, far moreso than if everything had just been tied up neatly at the end of the series. I much prefer leaving a few things unresolved at the end, but tying up the key points - which, for this season, was the Doctor's "death".

This. Not everything should be wound up at the end of the season.

A lot of the finale had some weird Samuel Beckett-ish bits when The Doctor and Churchill were talking about time and whatnot.

[Vamp]

There's a valid point to the argument that not everything should be wrappred up until you consider two things; A) There's things from last series which they hinted at in that series finale but seem to have completely dropped since and haven't even mentioned and B) whe nthe only thing you actually tie up is tied up in the most lame and predictable manner after building it up since the start of the series. I can't help but feel the whole series was back to front and needs to return to the old format. The cliffhanger in the middle was useless and the opening two episodes effectively felt like the finale and made everything else that came later seem low rent. It was a nice experiment but I can't say I felt it worked. If it wasn't a big year next year I'm not convinced I'd bother wit hthe next series, and that's certainly something I didn't think I'd be saying. And that's despite thinking some of the episodes this series seemed great.

[Steeb]

You probably shouldn't bother with next season, if the last, brilliant, series has offended you so much.

[Colly]

I think brilliant is a stretch, and it certainly wasn't as good as last years. It certainly split opinion on this board if you whip back episode by episode. The opening two parter and the mid season finale were both superb, but some of the 'monster of the week' stuff wasn't great, and more than before just felt like filler between the 5 big episodes. I enjoyed the 'Flesh' two parter but many on here didn't.

The overarching theme was explained at the very beginning (the Doctors death), then solved in a fairly rubbish way (it wasn't him, yay!) by contrast to the gentle hinting of previous series leading to a big finish, so the one episode quick solution to it just didn't feel satisfying.

I'm certainly not jumping on the 'not watching' bus because I did still enjoy it and will continue to, I just think its far from the best series of 'New Who'.

[Twist]

There's a valid point to the argument that not everything should be wrappred up until you consider two things; A) There's things from last series which they hinted at in that series finale but seem to have completely dropped since and haven't even mentioned and B) whe nthe only thing you actually tie up is tied up in the most lame and predictable manner after building it up since the start of the series. I can't help but feel the whole series was back to front and needs to return to the old format. The cliffhanger in the middle was useless and the opening two episodes effectively felt like the finale and made everything else that came later seem low rent. It was a nice experiment but I can't say I felt it worked. If it wasn't a big year next year I'm not convinced I'd bother wit hthe next series, and that's certainly something I didn't think I'd be saying. And that's despite thinking some of the episodes this series seemed great.

Have people truly been asking the question of will The Doctor/won't the Doctor die? I thought the whole excitement bit was 'so how does the Doctor get out of this?' not 'will he?'.

[Steeb]

Echo'd. Surely no-one questioned that he would? I think the MOTW episodes have been weak for the whole New Who, bar a coupke of stand-outs. I judge the series' off their main arc, and this one was brilliant, with a lot going on, and had me genuinely, week-to-week, not knowing where it was going.

[Skummy]

Ultimately, this series - or half-series, at least - started with the cliffhanger, "how will they rescue Amy's newborn baby?". You find me one other primetime, family TV show that, given that cliffhanger to resolve, would've gone with the option "they just don't", and try telling me again that this series was somehow predictable or underwhelming.

Yes, the reveal of character-you've-never-met-before turning out to be River was shitty, but that aside, you find me a single other family TV show that would have had the balls to have their female lead's baby abducted, and then for her to never get it back.

Have people truly been asking the question of will The Doctor/won't the Doctor die? I thought the whole excitement bit was 'so how does the Doctor get out of this?' not 'will he?'.

Completely. Even the trailer for this series featured the Doctor asking "have you not figured that one out yet?" when the topic of his death was brought up - no one thought he was actually going to die, it was all a question of what actually happened, what tricks he had pulled - either how he was going to get out of it, or what he had already done to get out of it without anyone else realising.

I see this whole series as a step in a better direction. Under RTD, and initially under Moffat, there was always this horrible problem of the Doctor being treated as a Messianic figure, whom everybody had heard of, who could make entire alien fleets turn and run at the mention of his name and who, under RTD at least, had ill-defined God-like powers he made up as he went along. It's very, very difficult to keep a series running with a character that has that much power at their disposal - the Doctor would be a much stronger character if he was, for all extents and purposes, human. He needs to blend in, he needs to not always know what's going on, and he needs to be a whole lot less smug.

The end of the first part of this series was destroying the Doctor's oft-used defence mechanism of "well, I'm the Doctor, look at what I've done in the past, and imagine what I could do to you" - it backfired, and everybody got hurt because of it. He fucked up. With that defence gone, he spent the better part of the second half of the series coming to terms with the damage he had already caused - in a much more realistic, yet still entertaining, way than grumpy Eccleston and mopey Tennant - and needed to be shown that it wasn't all bad, he just needed to put things in perspective. Now, with his vow to "lie low", I'm guessing we're going to see a step away from the "epic" stories in which he has to save the world AND TIME ITSELF, to a more low-key affair. This series has been an exercise in taking things back to basics, and I don't think we'll get another "epic" Doctor story until the Anniversary.

[Vamp]

You probably shouldn't bother with next season, if the last, brilliant, series has offended you so much.

I did mention that some of the episodes this year were great. You did get that right? *sigh* You can be critical of something and still watch it. I didn't think I'd have to explain that on a fanboard but there you go. Considering I watched a whole series that was essentially just setting things up for the next which seems to be going where Moffat wanted it to go all along it makes sense to give the next series a shot, no? And quite frankly the series didn't offend me. I just found it very underwhelming and quite lame. But well done and thanks for playing. (Edit: That reads harsher than I meant it to, sorry mate. Bad day.)

I'm certainly not jumping on the 'not watching' bus because I did still enjoy it and will continue to, I just think its far from the best series of 'New Who'.

There is no watching bus. I just said that I didn't really think much of this series, would give it another series and then if I mostly didn't enjoy that I probably wouldn't bother with it.

Have people truly been asking the question of will The Doctor/won't the Doctor die? I thought the whole excitement bit was 'so how does the Doctor get out of this?' not 'will he?'.

Precisely. The answer was in a very lame, predictible manner that wasn't worth the build up. I mean I enjoyed the Doctor's grin when he looked back around the door, and if it hadn't have been an enigma built up for so long and in a season finale I'd have probably liked it, but *that* for a series finale? Meh.

Surely no-one questioned that he would?

It certainly looks like no one said they did so I guess not...

Ultimately, this series - or half-series, at least - started with the cliffhanger, "how will they rescue Amy's newborn baby?". You find me one other primetime, family TV show that, given that cliffhanger to resolve, would've gone with the option "they just don't", and try telling me again that this series was somehow predictable or underwhelming.

Yes, the reveal of character-you've-never-met-before turning out to be River was shitty, but that aside, you find me a single other family TV show that would have had the balls to have their female lead's baby abducted, and then for her to never get it back.

I've never really been critical of that plot line, although you show me one other TV show where they'd do that storyline and not hang around long enough to actually let the enmotion of that settle in. Because they didn't. They really should have lingered on that longer. We got a couple of lines and Amy's savagery at the end (which was awful but anyway) and that was it. She should have been outraged at the Doctor for longer, she should have hated the whole time travelling nonsense, she have been stuck between mourning and celebrating the fact that her daughter survived, she should have been conflicted, but we didn't really see any of that much. It's great to do a storyline like that but you've got to dwell on it. Otherwise it becomes just another long running plot in a multitude of them and doesn't really have the emotional payoff you're looking for. OF course the obvious complaint people will have against that is its a kids show that needs to keep running along and that it will make the series too soapy again. I'd argue that underestimatign the kids that watch it, who would have got it, and that it's more about focusing on the meotional impact on characters.

I see this whole series as a step in a better direction. Under RTD, and initially under Moffat, there was always this horrible problem of the Doctor being treated as a Messianic figure, whom everybody had heard of, who could make entire alien fleets turn and run at the mention of his name and who, under RTD at least, had ill-defined God-like powers he made up as he went along. It's very, very difficult to keep a series running with a character that has that much power at their disposal - the Doctor would be a much stronger character if he was, for all extents and purposes, human. He needs to blend in, he needs to not always know what's going on, and he needs to be a whole lot less smug.

I'm actually fine with this potential step in a new direction, it keeps the character changing which is good. I just haven't thought that this series, which has mainly focused on setting up that change, has been a 'great' series and actually think it's been a little disappointing and poorer than it needed to be. And I don't really think, personally, that the new format has worked so well since the series has felt a little back to front. At the end of the day, they tried something new and that was brave. I don't personally feel that the series overall has worked that well and haven't really thought that much of it overall despite thinking that there a few really good episodes in it. That's probably mostly because, as I've mentioned, I didn't really get into the way the series has been formatted and I haven't really been able to get into the payoffs for any of the enigma codes. And as a result I've felt overall disappointed with the series because the sum of it's parts didn't mean that much to me and have said that if next series dissapoints me too then maybe it's not the series for me anymore.

Edited October 4, 2011 by Vamp

[Steeb]

"I'm not convinced I'll watch" reads to me towards the negative. Hence my point. Why watch something you won't enjoy? I don't watch The Only Way Is Essex. Next year will be the same style overview as this year. If you detest it enough to write a couple of 200+ word posts aaying as much, it's not worth your time.