NFL 2009

[I Love Pokemon]

It's senior, not senoir.

Can we end this now?

I Don't see why not. i've made my points, they have made their points, so i see no reason to keep on arguing.

[livid]

Their point was that you can't make the argument though because success at the college level means squat at the NFL level.

If in a year Colt McCoy leads his team to an AFC/NFC Championship game, you can compare the two but you can't say that McCoy is better because you're basing that off the fact that McCoy has shown this against college level players whereas Flacco has already proven his salt in the NFL. When McCoy does that, you can compare the two. Until then, you're just making a ridiculous comparison that makes you look like an idiot.

McCoy's production compared to Flacco's production in college is meaningless.

And I'd call a completion percent of 65% over the last half of the season as "accurate enough". So the accuracy argument is flawed as well.

Edited March 22, 2009 by Livid

[Maxx]

Exactly, there's no fucking comparrison.

Colt McCoy is a better QB because he has better talent surrounding him. It had nothing to do with the defenses he faced, because as someone stated in a point you ignored, Big 12 games are just fucking shootouts.

At the mention of Ken Dorsey, you act like he's the only stud college QB who failed miserably in the pros. There was a big fucking list in another post you obviously ignored.

As usual, you don't have a clear point. You want to argue Colt McCoy is a better QB than Flacco, but you have no idea how to do it, which isn't suprising considering its a stupid fucking arguement.

So what if Colt McCoy is a better QB now than Flacco was in his senior year? That has absolutely nothing to do with how well he will perform in the NFL, so what is your fucking point? There are fucking hundreds of QBs who were better than Flacco in his senior year, what the fuck is your point?

[I Love Pokemon]

That was my point. My point is that someone said McCoy will likely fail in the NFL. I said that McCoy is better then Flacco was entering his final college season.

My Point is that if Flacco can improve, and enter the league and be thrown into the fire and play well in the NFL. Then it is stupid to say that McCoy will fail, because at this point Colt is better then Flacco was in his final season at Delaware.

If Joe Flacco who played at Delaware can come in to the Ravens, and help them go far, then it is stupid to think Colt McCoy from Texas who is more proven as a QB then Flacco was when he was drafted, will surely fail in the NFL and accomplish nothing.

My point is that Colt McCoy has the potential to be a great NFL QB, i'm not saying he for sure will, because you can never tell but he has the potential to do it.

And yes i read the other post, i responded with the fact that Jason White shouldn't count towards that list because his Knee's fucked him over in the NFL not his talent. And I said that Troy Smith showed promise when played alot of people saw that. That was just overlooked i guess.

I'm not trying to say that Colt McCoy is going to be better then Flacco or that he is currently. I'm saying that McCoy can be a great QB, and that he is better now then Flacco was. Thats my point it got carried away.

Everyone acts as if i said that Colt McCoy's NCAA Career is better then Joe Flacco's NFL Career where in fact i've never stated it. My whole point this whole time has been that Colt McCoy has the tools to become a great NFL QB. I used the fact that he is better going into his senior year then Flacco was as a point of reference that if Flacco can become a good NFL QB then surely Colt can.

I may have mis-stated it a few times, but thats been my whole point this entire time.

[Maxx]

And in response to all that, one can simply say Joe Flacco had to work alot harder than Colt McCoy will ever have to in college to get selected where he was in college. College stats do not matter, especially at big schools with big offenses. The only possible way we could say that Colt McCoy was or is absolutely better than Joe Flacco was in his senior season is if we saw one of them play under the same conditions as the other.

[I Love Pokemon]

And in response to all that, one can simply say Joe Flacco had to work alot harder than Colt McCoy will ever have to in college to get selected where he was in college. College stats do not matter, especially at big schools with big offenses. The only possible way we could say that Colt McCoy was or is absolutely better than Joe Flacco was in his senior season is if we saw one of them play under the same conditions as the other.

Thank you.... that was a response that wasn't just bashing me. you gave me a good response there and stated your opinon mixed with fact without getting personal.

And we agree on Flacco having to work harder to get into the NFL then McCoy will. Also the only way to absolutely say which is better in their senior year is to switch the situations, i agree with you. That is the only way to know, without any bias or opinon involved.

All this aside though, i don't dislike Flacco, i think he will become a great QB. I think he has the poise and is on the right team to make it happen. I also think McCoy will make a good-great NFL QB in time. I do not however feel that Mark Sanchez will make a good QB i think he is Overrated. Matthew Stafford looks pretty good though, he could become a good QB.

[JStarr]

Jesus Fucking Christ with hollandaise sauce, I wake up to two pages of this shit?

ILP, you'll have a warning in hand momentarily for the asshole and dick comments a while back. Resorting to namecalling is the last resort of the man who knows he's losing an argument.

Meanwhile, most people in this thread will listen to you if you have a cogent point that they agree with. Next time you pull one out, you might be surprised how much of a big deal people make of it, since...well, you haven't really had one in the last month or so.

[naiwf]

I just had to chime in with this bit. The scouts think Stafford can be a QB in the vein of a Ryan or Flacco and you think he could be a "good" NFL QB. All of the Big XII guys are going to be team killers if they're drafted in the 1st round (with the possible exception of Bradford) because of the guaranteed money they will collect to be clipboard jockeys and you think most of them can be "great" NFL QBs. I think you just don't understand what it is that professional teams are looking for at the QB position and just look at who puts up the biggest numbers in their offensive system. I guarantee you if you put Stafford at Texas, OU, Texas Tech or Mizzou he'd have put up monster numbers because he wouldn't have had Moreno to hand the ball off to and they don't play ANY defense in the Big XII. Similarly, if you put Harrell, Bradford, McCoy or Daniel in the SEC their numbers would drop off by at least 33% because they DO play defense and coaches don't allow their QBs to throw 35+ times a game.

The fact that Flacco and Ryan became stars at the NFL level while going to a D2 school and playing for a mediocre BC team lets you know that the supporting cast is very important at the college level. This is why I think Tebow will be a bust as well. This is why scouts look at the skillsets and not at the numbers.

[I Love Pokemon]

I don't think all Big 12 QB's will be stars or even starters in the NFL. I love to watch Chase Daniel play but i know he won't make it very far. I'm not sold on Josh Freeman, although almost everyone else is. I'm sure Grahm Harrel won't ever be a starting QB unless injuries occur. Bradford and McCoy i think are good enough to do something in the NFL.

I agree that Stafford would've put up big numbers in the Big 12. But i'd argue that Colt McCoy or Sam Bradford would still be highly hyped QB's if they played in the SEC. The numbers wouldn't be the same or as good, but i think they could still excel.

[DMN in the House]

Wow and damn. And that is coming from a guy who will still contend that Cade McNown got a raw deal in Chicago. None of the B12 QBs, bar Bradford, are going to amount to much of anything in the NFL. Colt McCoy is hyped because he's the QB of the Texas Longhorns. He's not even half as talented as Vince Young is, and we all see what he's doing now.

[MyKILLv2.0]

I agree. McCoy is a great college QB, but that doesn't translate to the pros. In fact, I don't see any of the QBs in the Big 12 doing anything...including Bradford. Jason White put up Madden-esque numbers while he was playing too for OU, and never amounted to anything in the pros. Why is it that if QBs put up crazy numbers at Hawaii, BYU, or Texas Tech, they are labeled as "system QBs", but OU some how misses out on that label despite now three straight QBs (Hybl, White, Bradford) putting up crash numbers in their offensive system (the same system that now more then half the Big 12 runs).

[I Love Pokemon]

It's unfair to use Jason White with those guys. Jason White never got a chance in the NFL his knees were too broke down and ended up retiring before training camp because of them. So it's not a fair comparrison to lump him in there with other busts.

[kingtut307]

Adding to this QB conversation, it's fascinating to me the players who have success in college, yet fail miserably in the pros. The commentators always speak of a "Pro-style Quarterback", but honestly, who would've thought Tom Brady would be so successful? Or Matt Cassel, who barely played in college? Is it the system their brought into, the coaches, etc? Who knows?

It almost seems silly to load up in the draft on skill position players, but this is coming from a Steelers fan.

I guess that's why people have their front office jobs, to find the diamonds in the rough.

[Toe]

I think it all comes down to each NFL team and what they want to see from their quarterback. If a team brings in an offensive coordinator that wants to implement a new scheme, they may want one of the QBs in the draft that people say are not NFL QBs simply because they fit the scheme.

[naiwf]

Adding to this QB conversation, it's fascinating to me the players who have success in college, yet fail miserably in the pros. The commentators always speak of a "Pro-style Quarterback", but honestly, who would've thought Tom Brady would be so successful? Or Matt Cassel, who barely played in college? Is it the system their brought into, the coaches, etc? Who knows?

It almost seems silly to load up in the draft on skill position players, but this is coming from a Steelers fan.

I guess that's why people have their front office jobs, to find the diamonds in the rough.

It's funny because Brady was Brian Griese's waterboy and we all know how great Griese's NFL career turned out to be. Scouts look for guys who fit into their system or "can make all the throws". Someone like Flacco had the right build and arm strength to make it in the NFL even though he played in D2. Those Big XII QBs are generally undersized and benefit from the defenses they play against being terrible. I don't know how many times I've seen a 7 yard swing pass turn into a 50+ yard gain in that conference. It was the same thing with the Hurricanes QBs back when they were in the Big East.

[Evil Chase K]

After the Ravens wimped out and asked the league not to schedule them in a prime time game against the Steelers, the league chooses the next best opponent for the Thursday Night league kick-off game.

Steelers to open 2009 season with Tennessee

Monday, March 23, 2009

By Ed Bouchette, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

The Steelers will open the 2009 NFL season with a game against the Tennessee Titans on Thursday, September 10th.

The game, which the NFL will officially announce later today, is the traditional first-game of the kickoff weekend. The Super Bowl winner traditionally hosts the season's first game on Thursday night. It will air on TV on NBC.

The Titans were the no. 1 seed in the playoffs last year and the Steelers were no. 2. Baltimore upset the Titans in Tennessee and moved onto the AFC championship game at Heinz Field the following week. Ravens officials reportedley asked the NFL not to schedule them for the Thursday night opener against Pittsburgh.

First published on March 23, 2009 at 1:56 pm

EDIT: Also, it's been reported on PFT and elsewhere that Pats/Bills will be the first Monday Night game of the season. Complete with AFL throwback unis and all.

Edited March 23, 2009 by Evil Chase K

[naiwf]

Good job by the Ravens. Sparing us a nationally televised Ravens/Steelers snoozefest is never a bad thing.

[Evil Chase K]

I also cannot believe the proposed rule change that is going to make it illegal for a defensive player to hit an offensive player until after he has both feet on the ground and possession of the ball.

They want to outlaw "shoulder or forearm strikes" from the defensive players until after the receiver has possession and both feet on the ground. Are you fucking kidding me? Why not just propose a 3-yard halo rule for every offensive player.

And the "Tom Brady Rule" is a fucking joke too. It would outlaw players who are on their knees from lunging at a QB in an attempt to tackle him. Doesn't that fly in the face of the concept of the NFL? To tackle the person with the ball? That's stupid!

And the supposed "Hines Ward Rule" or the crackback block rule is stupid in my opinion too. You're taught from a very early age to keep your head on a swivel. Why protect players who are too stupid to do something they were taught from a young age?

[gunnar hendershow]

Those proposed rule changes are absolutely ridiculous. Why not just have offense vs. offense on the field?

[Evil Chase K]

I usually roll my eyes when people say "the league's going to be unwatchable in a few years" but if this trend continues, those people may be right.