The England thread

[Pesci]

I'm glad we finally seem to have a couple of wingers who are willing to take on opponents in Joe Cole and SWR, and SWR seems like a totally different player now that he's got some confidence back. I have no idea why anybody'd play him on the left, though. Once the fad with Beckham's over (I'm thinking some time just before or just after Euro 2008), I'm pretty confident they'll stand us in good stead for the years to come. Lampard looked impressive tonight, he didn't have a perfect game but he seemed to actually want to try for once, and it's all down to the fact that in the first half he was allowed to be the sole attacking central midfielder. In an ideal world we'd have Lampard or Gerrard and Hargreaves or Carrick in the engine room, though I'd prefer Gerrard and Hargreaves.

I'm actually dumbfounded by the lack of progress McClaren has made so far despite everything he should've learned in the time he's been in charge. Things that your average armchair manager can sit there and pick out. Shocking stuff.

Edited August 22, 2007 by Pesci Queen

[therockbox]

Beckham, for me, is pointless when you're playing with strikers like Owen and Smith or Owen and Rooney. They're never going to win any headers, which basically means that the majority of what Beckham (supposedly) brings to the team is pointless. The only player that's ever going to actually win headers on a regular basis is Crouch, and even then you're relying on those around him to get to the knockdowns.

[Thomas]

Beckham, for me, is pointless when you're playing with strikers like Owen and Smith or Owen and Rooney. They're never going to win any headers, which basically means that the majority of what Beckham (supposedly) brings to the team is pointless. The only player that's ever going to actually win headers on a regular basis is Crouch, and even then you're relying on those around him to get to the knockdowns.

[therockbox]

Like I said before, Owen and Rooney will struggle to win headers against decent teams. Owen's main strength was his pace which complimented his movement, but in his last two spells of fitness that pace seems to have all but gone. Put Owen and Rooney up front and try to ping crosses into them and I guarantee they'll be muscled out.

[cmb211087]

Got to say, as much as I want David Bentley to play for England, with the setup as it is, it would be pretty pointless, since he is a clone of Beckham , except has pace, dribbling and tackling skills. I agree with the previous posters, Owen and Rooney are not going to be winning headers, so having a crosser on the wing can't cut it. I would have played swp from the start tonight, but no, Beckham, who has a game in a little over 24 hours, and isn't full fit, gets a full match. Hell, even Micah was doing more running than him. Pisses me off how Mclaren listens to the media so much.

Drop Paul Robinson too, he is shit, and has been shit for a while now, give Carson a chance.

Also, Kieron Dyer.....why does he get near an England team, he is awful! And Wes Brown? Even my Man U supporting friends think he sucks!

Although the result is good for me, I had a bet on that England would score first then lose 2-1, being part German sometimes has its benefits

[IAceI]

You forgot Bentley has nowhere near the precise delivery Beckham has, but well done for picking on Beckham's flaws.

Kieran Dyer was absolutely pointless, he could have had two, and should have had one but nope. Puzzled me why he came on, SWP should have replaced Beckham after an hour and Cole should have played the full match, he was on a yellow and had a warning after that but I couldn't see him being sent off.

Although now it appears Bent, Defoe, Crouch, Owen, Smith and Rooney are our main attack force, when all fully fit I'd say only two of them are going to be starting for their club. And they are Owen and Rooney, and since I assume Owen will never be fully fit in his life again, it makes for depressing viewing really.

[alldaws1]

Got to say, as much as I want David Bentley to play for England, with the setup as it is, it would be pretty pointless, since he is a clone of Beckham , except has pace, dribbling and tackling skills. I agree with the previous posters, Owen and Rooney are not going to be winning headers, so having a crosser on the wing can't cut it. I would have played swp from the start tonight, but no, Beckham, who has a game in a little over 24 hours, and isn't full fit, gets a full match. Hell, even Micah was doing more running than him. Pisses me off how Mclaren listens to the media so much.

Drop Paul Robinson too, he is shit, and has been shit for a while now, give Carson a chance.

There's just no pleasing the fans, is there? Everyone says drop Beckham, McClaren complies, then they say bring Beckham back, he does that, and now it's drop Beckham again? He's an experienced and still a pretty damn good midfielder. He needed some game time as he's still on the road back from injury and if he's to play a big role in our next qualifiers he needs that time to get back to being fully fit.

Paul Robinson isn't 'shit'. He makes some great saves but his judgement and decision making isn't as good as it used to be. The reason I think McClaren didn't play one of our youngsters is that there is a legitimate question over who should be our first choice goalkeeper so he played the candidates and will make a decision from what he saw about who to play in the qualifiers. I'd have liked to see Carson as well but when you can only have six substitutes you don't want to waste two of them on goalkeepers.

[IAceI]

My problem with Robinson is that he's declined quite a bit. I remember when he first appeared for Tottenham and started playing first choice and he was absolutely quality, as in, one of the best goalkeepers around at the time. Since then though he hasn't really improved as such and has just sort of settled into his position as number one without any real competition until just now more or less.

Then again there are goal keepers out there who got the jersey and fell at the first hurdle, so for Robinson to have been number one for as long as he's been then I think that's something to be proud of.

But of course, we're never going to be satisfied with anything ever really are we? So why even try.

[Guest Avenger]

Well, only watched about 15 minutes of this match but the thing that angers me is that if our players play really really shit, we will still see the same squad & the same people playing shit, they pick on POPULARITY if it was me and a player was playing shit id boot em out for abit and play the guys who are on top form eg Richards, James etc, and maybe even look into a FEW championship players, we especialy need competition for Robinson because he is just there and it is like theres no one lyk challenging him, if we had On Form first team and a bunch of on form subs bench challenging them i think something could work.

Germanys 2nd goal was good.

England under McLaren, wont win shit.

Edited August 23, 2007 by Avenger

[Thomas]

Like I said before, Owen and Rooney will struggle to win headers against decent teams. Owen's main strength was his pace which complimented his movement, but in his last two spells of fitness that pace seems to have all but gone. Put Owen and Rooney up front and try to ping crosses into them and I guarantee they'll be muscled out.

[cmb211087]

Got to say, as much as I want David Bentley to play for England, with the setup as it is, it would be pretty pointless, since he is a clone of Beckham , except has pace, dribbling and tackling skills. I agree with the previous posters, Owen and Rooney are not going to be winning headers, so having a crosser on the wing can't cut it. I would have played swp from the start tonight, but no, Beckham, who has a game in a little over 24 hours, and isn't full fit, gets a full match. Hell, even Micah was doing more running than him. Pisses me off how Mclaren listens to the media so much.

Drop Paul Robinson too, he is shit, and has been shit for a while now, give Carson a chance.

There's just no pleasing the fans, is there? Everyone says drop Beckham, McClaren complies, then they say bring Beckham back, he does that, and now it's drop Beckham again? He's an experienced and still a pretty damn good midfielder. He needed some game time as he's still on the road back from injury and if he's to play a big role in our next qualifiers he needs that time to get back to being fully fit.

Paul Robinson isn't 'shit'. He makes some great saves but his judgement and decision making isn't as good as it used to be. The reason I think McClaren didn't play one of our youngsters is that there is a legitimate question over who should be our first choice goalkeeper so he played the candidates and will make a decision from what he saw about who to play in the qualifiers. I'd have liked to see Carson as well but when you can only have six substitutes you don't want to waste two of them on goalkeepers.

[alldaws1]

Got to say, as much as I want David Bentley to play for England, with the setup as it is, it would be pretty pointless, since he is a clone of Beckham , except has pace, dribbling and tackling skills. I agree with the previous posters, Owen and Rooney are not going to be winning headers, so having a crosser on the wing can't cut it. I would have played swp from the start tonight, but no, Beckham, who has a game in a little over 24 hours, and isn't full fit, gets a full match. Hell, even Micah was doing more running than him. Pisses me off how Mclaren listens to the media so much.

Drop Paul Robinson too, he is shit, and has been shit for a while now, give Carson a chance.

There's just no pleasing the fans, is there? Everyone says drop Beckham, McClaren complies, then they say bring Beckham back, he does that, and now it's drop Beckham again? He's an experienced and still a pretty damn good midfielder. He needed some game time as he's still on the road back from injury and if he's to play a big role in our next qualifiers he needs that time to get back to being fully fit.

Paul Robinson isn't 'shit'. He makes some great saves but his judgement and decision making isn't as good as it used to be. The reason I think McClaren didn't play one of our youngsters is that there is a legitimate question over who should be our first choice goalkeeper so he played the candidates and will make a decision from what he saw about who to play in the qualifiers. I'd have liked to see Carson as well but when you can only have six substitutes you don't want to waste two of them on goalkeepers.

I don't know why the English have this mentality of 'He isn't match fit, so lets play him in a England international match so he can get match fit.' No, that should be left up to Galaxy to get Becks fit.

It's not a club's duty to get their players fit for international games. They want Beckham fit for the club games he has lined up which aren't on the same scale as international fixtures. Beckham's only just come back into the England side as it is, he needs to get back up to England team fitness and to do that he needs the minutes. Perhaps the full ninety was a bit much, but McClaren knows Beckham is going to be the likely starter for the qualifiers so he wants to do everything he can to get him fully fit for them.

And yes, SWP may be on form but I don't see that as a legitimate argument against starting Beckham, as even with this niggling injury Beckham's been playing well for the Galaxy, he's scored once and set up numerous goals in only a couple of games.

[therockbox]

Like I said before, Owen and Rooney will struggle to win headers against decent teams. Owen's main strength was his pace which complimented his movement, but in his last two spells of fitness that pace seems to have all but gone. Put Owen and Rooney up front and try to ping crosses into them and I guarantee they'll be muscled out.

Owen is actually a good headerer of the ball. A lot of the time you don't need to be strong to win headers from balls out wide, you need good movement and a good header.

They'll struggle to win headers from goal kicks and deep free kicks yeah, but from out wide Owen has been pretty successful. Rooney is never really looking for that sort of service though, so it's harder to comment.

[Thomas]

The point is that Owen already has proved he can find the space in all situations. Just needs to get a run without injury and I think he'll be back to one of the best there is.

[therockbox]

The point is that Owen already has proved he can find the space in all situations.

[Thomas]

I thought we were talking about Beckham and Owen?

[therockbox]

We are, and I don't think Owen will win many aerial battles with nobody like Heskey/Shearer playing alongside him. I'd also question whether he still has the pace to get in front of defenders, and just how smart it is to rely on a player whose injury problems have been getting steadily worse since he was in his early twenties.

[Adam]

Anyone watching this? Unchanged team, and were winning

[The Quasi Juice]

Finally a thread about the game. England seem to have finally found their magic eleven.

[IAceI]

Yeah lets boo other peoples National Anthems and then act like we know the words to ours. :-\