Killing in the Name (Of Christmas)

[Rich]

I hope this "race" will encourage other artists in the future to at least try and go up against the show.

Ultimately I really hope that this is what comes out of thsi (Y)

[GoGo Yubari]

I hope Rage wins mostly because it would be funny on a couple of levels and also because maybe the momentum from that can get a better/more fitting/less hilariously ironic song in the same position next year.

Its a British thing, we hate people who are successful

This is actually more of an "everywhere successful people are" thing.

[New Damage]

I too hope that if RATM do win, it'll open the door for other similar acts. The charts these days are full of the same type of songs by the same type of bands. Just something for those people who don't like the stuff they're playing now. You look at the album charts though and whenever a rock or rap album comes out, it goes straight to the top, but the charts almost refuse to play the songs, even when there is absolutely nothing wrong with it except for the artist.

One recent example that springs to mind is Pearl Jam's "The Fixer". It was almost made for all kinds of radio. Cheerier than a Nickelback song, no profanity or hidden meaning and just under 3 minutes long. It got to #75 or something. I wasn't expecting number one but fuck me.

I guess it's disheartening for me to look at old chart listings and seeing nice mix of say Michael Jackson and Madonna mixed in with the likes of REM, Metallica or Nirvana in the charts, whereas now despite the success of Download and Sonisphere Festivals, they don't get a look in.

About the only rock band (and I know people have their own feelings about them) they do play on our chart radio channel is Nickelback, about twice a day. Eight different Rhianna songs get played an hour. They may also play Muse too now, I haven't listened to the radio for that reason. Either way their "playlist" consists of about 30 songs, of which they play about 10.

Also, I think what wouldn't be as bad is IF X-Factor has to have a number one, the artist who wins makes a different type of song. I mean I hate X-Factor and the general fakeness of it's "reality TV" (I'm looking at you Louis, you giant fucking spineless piece of shit ) as a whole, but the fact that they come out with some ballad-like cover with the EPIC KEY CHANGE AND RAISE OUT OF STOOL AS CHOIR CHIMES IN~! moment and fake sentiment meaning that any emotion that may have been in the original is lost. If they covered something more upbeat for once, hell a new song in general maybe it'd be a bit more enthralling.

Edited December 18, 2009 by TheModernWay

[YI]

To YI,

How has the Xmas number 1 been ours for well, pretty much ever? I mean the music labels manipulate the public through their giant media engines in to buying their the releases so that as many consumers as possible come out at the correct time and buy the song of their most lucrative and popular artists to get hte no.1, just like the Spice Girls, Westlife, East 17, Robbie Williams, etc... have been used for years. In this case Sony has developed the superior style of promotional vehicle for their chosen release, a reality television show that manages to reach millions of homes eery week and popularises the artists such that the most popular artist is chosen to release the single that they think will make them a shit ton of money and further publicity.

You've missed the point again...I said, yes, that's how pop music works. The one with the best media machine tends to win, but now THERE'S ONE FUCKING SONG!! That's where the problem comes. Nobody else (or anyone of note) releases Christmas singles anymore because there's no fucking point. The big music companies wont get behind it and allow their artists to release singles because sales aren't evenly distributed anymore, Alexandra Burke last year sold more than the rest of the Top 20 PUT TOGETHER!! The fact that without this RATM campaign, word on the 'industry grapevine' (and before you say anything, I'm not saying I know anyone in the industry or anything, just what I've picked up from various different places) says it looks as though 3Oh3! would be heading towards Christmas #2, which is an absolute fucking disgrace. But still, fuck it, respect to them for actually having the balls to release something. But the fact is, you don't have that choice anymore. Yes Robbie has promotion, yes Spice Girls had promotion, that's how pop music works. But it was never pretty much a one horse race, at least there was variety, it's not like that anymore...but I will concede that, that is in half that 'average joe' doesn't want variety, because they've bought into the X-Factor hook line and sinker.

Also I don't get how you can say that the winner fo the X Facot r doesn't deserve the Xmas No 1. This person(s) has beaten out thousands of people to win that show, putting themselves infront of the millions of people who watch every week, and who do like the songs they sing, to follow something that they have obviously dreamed about. Yet you can sit their behind your computer screen and say that "Oh just because he won a talent show he doesn't deserve"/b] Music is just a talent and popularity show. You have to have a recognisable talent, such that you gain popularity and sell records. All this kid has done is put himslef in a position that most of us would swap for in a second. I just find it so crass that people chose RATM when they could have gone out and bought something either more christmassy or gone out and bought the Peter Kay Children in Need single as then you're assured that the money is going to something good.

Because...HE DOESN'T DESERVE CHRISTMAS NUMBER 1! Just because you won X-Factor, doesn't mean it's your divine right to have Christmas number one...or at least it shouldn't mean that. There's a magnitude of fantastic artists out there, you should never be guaranteed a number 1 spot, that's ridiculous. Simon Cowell ranting on about how it could take away something he "deserves", Cheryl Cole going on about how it's "mean" (HOW!?!?! THIS IS HOW CHARTS WORK YOU SILLY FUCKING BITCH!!!) and Alexandra Burke saying it's mean and Joe should win because "HE'S NEVER HAD A NUMBER 1 BEFORE!!" (WHAT THE FUCK!?!?! And running on that one, neither have RATM love) is just absolutely fucking ridiculous.

Oh the sitting behind the computer screen thing...oh my...oh my...what an argument. Yes as a music consumer I can criticise him and I can criticise X-Factor. I'm having my choice of musical material diminished around Christmas time, because of the show and its format and the fact the rest of the industry doesn't seem to have any balls to fight back against it. And I can say he doesn't deserve a number 1. Because, he doesn't. That's not the award for winning X-Factor. It's like I brought up about people saying it's unfair and vindictive, no it's not, just like the public decided that Joe should win X-Factor, if they decide RATM should be #1...they should be number 1, there's nothing mean or vindictive about it at all...no matter how crass the concept/song they've chosen actually is.

I will say, the lad himself has handled himself well about this, even saying it's your normal "chart battle", which is fair enough. BECAUSE IT FUCKING IS!!!

However, I will have to question the whole love of music/dream of this guy one smidge, as when asked about "What kind of music do you like?" his answer was a skin-wretching "Chart stuff. New chart stuff".

At the end of the day I think my problem with the whole campaign is the adolescent nature of it. I mean to go for a song that has the lyrics of "Fuck you, I wont do what you tell me" really speaks of the nature of that side fo the British public. Crass, unimaginative and also a little embarrassing.

That I will agree with.

[Rich]

I will agree with a lot fo what you say and I definitely see most of your points. The only one I disagree with is the "Normal chart battle" arguement. While it is a case of one record's sales versus another's, its not just that, its a campaign, not based on musical talent, or the greatness or popularoty of one song versus another, its a campaign. I would have no problem if somebody, like you say, had the balls to put out another record against the lad. But no, its a campaign that makes it different from a chart battle as it attacks on a moral level rather than a pure music level.

Also I don't get you attacking the lad for his musical tastes, while I agree with you that his response was horrible, if thats what he enjoys, thats what he enjoys. If he had come out and said "Oh, well I am in to Post Rock and Shoegaze, but I also like a bit of Hardcore Punk when I am in the mood, oh and some Jazz Fusion while I am feeling a bit fruity" Would it have made it any better? Just becasue he enjoys what are the most popular tracks of any given week doesn'tr mean his love of music is anymore or less than yours or mine, just he loves something different, and does so in a differnet way. Rather than going out and searching for obscure records and bands the guy likes whats presented to him on a plate and doesn't feel the need to try anythingelse, doesn't make his connection to it any less than yours or mine to a Biffy Clyro (in my case) or a Streelight Manifesto, or a Brand New, its hardly a valid point dude.

But like I say what you say makes sense, and if thats peoples reasoning behind it I am 100% fine with it. But I beleive there are plenty of people out there doing it out callousness towards Simon Cowell, I am not saying a majority or anything, but I feel this number is not insignificant, and at the end of the day I still reckon this should be made to be Number 1

[YI]

Also I don't get you attacking the lad for his musical tastes, while I agree with you that his response was horrible, if thats what he enjoys, thats what he enjoys. If he had come out and said "Oh, well I am in to Post Rock and Shoegaze, but I also like a bit of Hardcore Punk when I am in the mood, oh and some Jazz Fusion while I am feeling a bit fruity" Would it have made it any better? Just becasue he enjoys what are the most popular tracks of any given week doesn'tr mean his love of music is anymore or less than yours or mine, just he loves something different, and does so in a differnet way. Rather than going out and searching for obscure records and bands the guy likes whats presented to him on a plate and doesn't feel the need to try anythingelse, doesn't make his connection to it any less than yours or mine to a Biffy Clyro (in my case) or a Streelight Manifesto, or a Brand New, its hardly a valid point dude.

It was more, if you watch the interview...the question clearly catches him off guard...and he just goes "Chart stuff. New chart stuff"...he doesn't seem to want to elaborate, or know what the fuck he'd say if he had to elaborate. He couldn't even really go "yeah, Madonna, yeah, I love Michael Jackson as well...Cascada write some catchy pop tunes"...ANYTHING to show that music actually means a flying fuck to him. Passion for anything. - http://news.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/hi/newsbeat/newsid_8415000/8415913.stm

Oh I love Alex Roots...she could bring about world peace.

Edited December 18, 2009 by YI

[MalaCloudy Black]

is it just in the UK that charts are paid attention to this closely or am I just out of touch?

[GA!]

is it just in the UK that charts are paid attention to this closely or am I just out of touch?

It is definitely a UK thing.

[Cactus Drags]

The argument is that those lyrics fit perfectly. The X Factor is shoved down our throats every year and for that shows winner to get number one just because of the popularity of the show is fucking annoying. It doesn't matter how bad the song is, the XF winner will get number one every time. People are sick of that, and it's why there's a campaign against it.

But you're not told to go out and buy the Xfactor single, it is like I said, just the most heavily promoted and most talked about song is the one that is purchased the most. Did people tell you got go out and buy the Spice Girls singel every December? No, but thousands went out and bought it anyway, does Simon Cowell go out and grab everyone in HMV, hold them at gun point and tell them they have to buy the single or else? No, its just the choice of thousands of fans of the show to go out and buy the single, which invariably gets it to no.1 beacuse barely any artisits seem to go out and make the effort to make a fan-dabi-dozi Christmas record like they used to.

You fucking well are. You say yourself, there's a shit-ton of promotion, X Factor's all over the tv and radio, you can barely get away from it. Or is this some new-fangled kind of marketing where they tell you not to buy what they're pitching.

Once again, it all boils down to the simple fact that it's a bit of a laugh to have Rage at number one. The "fuck you..." phrase is relevant-ish (moreso than "you've got a bullet in your fucking head" or something) to the cause - buying the Children in Need single or something doesn't help, largely because it's about as shite as the X Factor effort. And for me at least, I'm just tired of the talent show shite that always seems to be on now. Of course there's always been manufactured pop music but a. I never it remember it being quite as bad as it is these days and b. at least it wasn't so bloody obvious.

[Rich]

The argument is that those lyrics fit perfectly. The X Factor is shoved down our throats every year and for that shows winner to get number one just because of the popularity of the show is fucking annoying. It doesn't matter how bad the song is, the XF winner will get number one every time. People are sick of that, and it's why there's a campaign against it.

But you're not told to go out and buy the Xfactor single, it is like I said, just the most heavily promoted and most talked about song is the one that is purchased the most. Did people tell you got go out and buy the Spice Girls singel every December? No, but thousands went out and bought it anyway, does Simon Cowell go out and grab everyone in HMV, hold them at gun point and tell them they have to buy the single or else? No, its just the choice of thousands of fans of the show to go out and buy the single, which invariably gets it to no.1 beacuse barely any artisits seem to go out and make the effort to make a fan-dabi-dozi Christmas record like they used to.

You fucking well are. You say yourself, there's a shit-ton of promotion, X Factor's all over the tv and radio, you can barely get away from it. Or is this some new-fangled kind of marketing where they tell you not to buy what they're pitching.

Once again, it all boils down to the simple fact that it's a bit of a laugh to have Rage at number one. The "fuck you..." phrase is relevant-ish (moreso than "you've got a bullet in your fucking head" or something) to the cause - buying the Children in Need single or something doesn't help, largely because it's about as shite as the X Factor effort. And for me at least, I'm just tired of the talent show shite that always seems to be on now. Of course there's always been manufactured pop music but a. I never it remember it being quite as bad as it is these days and b. at least it wasn't so bloody obvious.

OK, I phrased that wrong, I meant forced to go out and buy. I don't get how you are saying its more obvious that we have manufactured pop music, didn't you fucking notice when we had, Take That, Spice Girls, B*Witched, Steps, 5ive, Blue, East 17, Boyzone, 100 versions of Atomic Kitten, the list goes on. While we are seeing how these groups or artists are made famous now (as the public are part of the process).

The whole point is it doesn't JUST boil down to the fact that "that it's a bit of a laugh to have Rage at number one". Its so fucking crass, unimaginative to have chosen Rage Againt the Machine and their song with those now infamous lyrics. Exactly what "Machine" are we raging about with this song? It certainly isn't the music label as they make double the money, and Simon Cowell and the X-Factor single are getting more publicity because of it. The irony is now everyone is doing what tehy're told "Don't want that shitty manufactured popularity contest winner at number 1? Now go out and do exactly as we tell you and buy this record to fuck with the norm." Really free thinking and imaginative isn't it? Now Tom Morello has come out and said they'll give the music to charity but thats besides the point, the message of the song and the entire campaign has seemed so off to me. I agree with the sentiment that Xmas No.1 should mean something and not be reserved for the winner of the X-Factor, but I do not like the way it had been done, in a year that has seen terrible economic strife and difficulties with Afghanistan among many, many other terrible things having a song like "So This is Christmas (War is Over)" by John Lennon would have been much more poigniant with the first couple of lines alone are much more apt than the RATM song... "So this is Christmas, and what have you done? Another year over, and a new one just begun." Like I have said since the beginning and I will keep repeating and repeating, the whole campaign seems futile, adolescent and fucking crass.

[ChrisSteeleAteMyHamster]

In fact Mad World is probably the worst of the Christmas number ones and that was hailed as "ooooh it's different to the usual Christmas songs!"

My friends have released a Christmas song for download so you should really buy that from itunes instead....

It's proper Christmassy.

[Walker]

I did download Killing In The Name, though I don't particularly like the song. All irony aside, I am more interested in the idea of a single backed by a 16-week advert losing out to a 15-year old song promoted virally (for the most part).

Edited December 19, 2009 by WalkerWGZ

[Liam]

I don't really get the point. People really shouldn't care about the charts these days, because they mean sod all, and if the X Factor wins Xmas No.1 every year, so what? Some people enjoy that kinda stuff, it sells, doesn't make it good or somehow better because it sells loads.

Sometimes I wish people would just get on liking what they like without having to make a big deal when something they don't like is popular.

But as long as 'we' show 'them', I guess.

[SeanDMan]

So the short version of this is that people were tired of being told what to do regarding shopping for songs around Christmas, so they bought the "fuck you I won't do what you tell me" song after they were told to do so?

Okay then, awesome.

Thats the short version but the slightly longer version is that people are sick of Simon Cowell and seem to have a vendetta against him.. Its a British thing, we hate people who are successful

This is all probably a record company initiative to encourage people who would normally pirate music to buy it instead, thus increasing sales of both artists.

[hugobomb]

You can see the scene at Sony BMG:

'Sir! There's an internet petition to stop Joe getting to number one, there's about one million people saying their going to buy another record.'

'Shit! What song are they buying instead?'

'Ummm 'Killing In The Name Of' by Rage Against The Machine. It's currently winning the chart battle.'

'Fu... wait don't we own Rage Against The Machine's label?'

'Yes Sir'

'BWAHAHAHAHA!!! Me and the rest of the executive's will be at lunch. I'm feeling expensive all of a suddenly today'

[METALMAN]

I don't really care who wins in all honesty. The RATM thing is for me a nice idea but perhaps the wrong song, but ultimately I don't really care

One thing that does irritate me a bit is the snobbery of some of the people who are into Rage getting number one. People who think that those who buy the X-Factor single are just sheep or idiots who don't know what good music is.

I mean if Joe Mcwhateverhissurnameis gets to number one, as he probably will, nothing really changes. Nobody's being forced to listen to it. If you'd rather rock out and FUCK YOU I WON'T DO WHAT YOU TELL ME to Killing In The Name you can easily do it.

But yeah, Rage Against the Machine fans of all people being snobbish. What irony. It's like someone who drinks lambrini thinking they're in the position to be a wine critic.

[hugobomb]

yeah in all fairness, in the age of YouTube, it's not exactly difficult to find music you want to listen to instead of X-Factor. People have reacted like before now they've been frog marched down to HMV and force, at gun point no less, to buy the X-Factor single. But now with this campaign they have been FREED from the shackles of X-Factor and are finally able to buy what they want.

Viva la revoltion!!

[METALMAN]

Oh I was selling tons of Joe singles at HMV today. I like my Joe buyers though! They are mostly harmless old women. And teenage boys who INSIST they are buying it for their mum.

One thing I did find amusing was when Joe was asked what he thought of Killing In The Name upon hearing it for the first time he said something like 'they'd never even get past x-factor boot camp'.

Cause that's what matters...

[hugobomb]

how many asked for the RATM single and refused to accept it was download only?

[DFF]

On a related side note - this re-mix is awesome: