The 2010 NFL Thread

[naiwf]

It's not like this is the first time the league has gone ape shit over "violent hits" ...

This man was run through the ringer and essentially put out of the league, by the league because he knocked people's heads off.

And now he coaches a defensive unit that many people find dirty.

[jrhodes]

I think I have an answer to this problem.

First you round up all these assholes who are complaining about not being able to dish out cheap shots. Then you tie their hands behind their back. Next you make them run full speed, head first into a brick wall that's moving towards them at 30mph.

I guarantee after that they'll change their tune in a big fucking hurry.

[gunnar hendershow]

It's not like this is the first time the league has gone ape shit over "violent hits" ...

This man was run through the ringer and essentially put out of the league, by the league because he knocked people's heads off.

And now he coaches a defensive unit that many people find dirty.

Let us not forget the middle finger he gave to officials.

[DMN in the House]

WAH WAH WAH.

Put fucking flags on them. It's football, you know what you signed up for. If you take away the defense's ability to intimidate with physicality, you might as well play fucking soccer.

[Meacon Keaton]

That's more or less how I feel on the subject. But I played safety in high school, and thought I was just being biased.

[DMN in the House]

I played linebacker and defensive line, and I know I'm being biased. I don't care. Defense is a part of the game, and the continued erosion of what they're allowed to do is killing football.

[EddieRuckus]

It is not killing football to take out the big helmet to helmet hits(which, out of the plays in question, only a few of them were borderline severe), as that causes concussions and soon you won't have players in the league. You have to realize that people who do make a life out of football are going to be sore enough as it is when they get old, and if they have multiple concussions over the course of a career(note: not someone who just played in high school and some college), then they're going to have long term neurological defects for the rest of their life. I think I heard it best said that you can fix some and most muscle/bone damage(even if you have to replace it), but you can't fix neurological problems.

That said, I do believe the NFL doesn't know what they want to do in terms of player safety. I remember a few weeks ago Ray Lewis got a lot of flags thrown his way for running into the quarterback, including one where he couldn't stop his own momentum and just sorta tumbled into him lazily. I do believe quarterbacks get WAY too much protection(I understand team owners push for this since they can make the team revenue if they're in the top quarterbacks), and some of it is just retarded. Hell, I'm a homer for the Seahawks, yet I've seen Matt Hasselbeck keep the offense at the field over the years by feigning some injury or pretending to get hit hard.

Hits like the Robinson/Jackson one are totally fine, and there are other ways to hurt and injure the other team without resorting to blatant helmet hits that may cause long term damage down the road. I heard on ESPN that the only reason it's getting so much attention is because of how many there were, and if it was just one or two the league or media wouldn't have said anything about it. I'm sure in a few weeks things will be back to "normal."

[Meacon Keaton]

I'm fine with them banning helmet-to-helmet hits, and if it's intentional then they should receive a fine and possibly a suspension. But when someone gets fined or suspended for just knocking someone out who came across the middle of the field, that's where I have a problem.

[DMN in the House]

I'm not just talking about helmet-to-helmet hits, because, obviously, intentionally trying to injure someone (not just 'hurt' them, actually injure them) is wrong. It's a compilation of things, starting early this decade when the NFL decided to help the Colts win a Super Bowl.

[EddieRuckus]

I'm not just talking about helmet-to-helmet hits, because, obviously, intentionally trying to injure someone (not just 'hurt' them, actually injure them) is wrong. It's a compilation of things, starting early this decade when the NFL decided to help the Colts win a Super Bowl.

Yeah, in that case I agree. I brought up the Ray Lewis tumbling into the quarterback as an example, as that was a close game and the refs babying the QB really hurt their chances. I almost cryed fowl when I saw our Punter get knocked out by a Bears player, but when I looked at the slow-mo I saw that he ran into the elbow of a defensive player, thankfully no flagrant flags were thrown.

I also agree with someone on ESPN that said that they hope this doesn't turn into refs throwing flags all the time against defensive players for making a good hit.

[naiwf]

I think we'll all find out how the league plans to handle things after this week's games. If guys start getting benched for borderline or inoffensive hits, then I can see the reason for anger. Until then I have no problem with cheapshot artists finally getting punished for doing what they do on a regular basis. We all know who the dirty players are, and if they have to stop being dirty or get suspended for it, I think that's a good thing. They really do need to rescind the Robinson fine though.

[Cactus Drags]

I'm fine with them banning helmet-to-helmet hits, and if it's intentional then they should receive a fine and possibly a suspension. But when someone gets fined or suspended for just knocking someone out who came across the middle of the field, that's where I have a problem.

That's essentially my stance. Although I'd like to see them quit wrapping the QBs in bubble wrap. It's the owners' fault tehy're paying these guys too much money, and when I see things like Brady throwing a tantrum for not getting a flag for being hit as he was releasing the ball, I get annoyed.

[HailtotheYo]

I think I have an answer to this problem.

First you round up all these assholes who are complaining about not being able to dish out cheap shots. Then you tie their hands behind their back. Next you make them run full speed, head first into a brick wall that's moving towards them at 30mph.

I guarantee after that they'll change their tune in a big fucking hurry.

Wow, talk about overboard ... Usain Fucking Bolt only gets up to 22-23 tops and he's nowhere near a brick wall.

I agree with DMN on the NFL "pussifying" itself for well over a decade. However, there is a line that needs to be drawn.

If you take away the defense's ability to intimidate with physicality, you might as well play fucking soccer

The only issue I take with that statement, is that you can intimidate with physicality within the rules of the game and with clean hits. What's happening now is getting borderline and going overboard. Meriweather is the perfect example. So is Robinson. One was fucking retarded, and one was a message sent by a damn near perfect hit.

With QB's I'm a bit more lax only because 90% of the time or more they are "defenseless" in terms of doing anything themselves about the hit they're taking. They aren't like WR/RB/TE/ETC who usually see the guy coming and can do something to protect themselves or completely avoid the hit.

[jrhodes]

I think I have an answer to this problem.

First you round up all these assholes who are complaining about not being able to dish out cheap shots. Then you tie their hands behind their back. Next you make them run full speed, head first into a brick wall that's moving towards them at 30mph.

I guarantee after that they'll change their tune in a big fucking hurry.

Wow, talk about overboard ... Usain Fucking Bolt only gets up to 22-23 tops and he's nowhere near a brick wall.

I agree with DMN on the NFL "pussifying" itself for well over a decade. However, there is a line that needs to be drawn.

It's overboard? I guess I'll have to cancel my meeting with Roger Goodell then.

My point was that those who take cheap shots (i.e. the Meriweather hit) aren't playing football, they're committing what is tantamount to assault. I have no problem with hard tackling but hitting an opponent in that manner definitely deserves a suspension.

American football is a contact sport, not a combat sport.

Edit: The NFL have just posted a video about the issue - http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81b811df/article/nfls-video-message-to-players-on-hits-you-are-on-notice?module=HP_headlines

Edited October 22, 2010 by Jake O. Rhodes

[gunnar hendershow]

I draw more problem with the babying of QBs and the god-awful illegal contact penalty more than anything else. The idea of suspending cheapshot artists for cheapshots is good, and I hope that when suspensions are dished out this is what they're dished out for. I hope that this doesn't give refs incentive to flag guys for hitting WRs the same way flags get thrown for hitting a QB. I have a problem with guys flying into players like a loaded missile instead of wrapping them up to make the tackle, but this is as much an issue for the defender since if they don't hit the guy right he's going down the field and you're on your ass.

[DMN in the House]

Y'all should never watch tape of games played before, oh, like, 1990. Shit was brutal, clotheslines, headhunting, just vicious. I know the argument is 'bigger, stronger, faster', and I get that, but, yeah, things have changed a lot.

Most off the rules in the passing game should be changed back, rules regarding hitting the QB should be changed (the hit below the knee thing is the only one I agree with, although, having played defensive line, that's a really gray area, because, most of the time, if a guy actual dives at a QB's legs, he's trying to trip him, not destroy his knees. Those kind of hits usually involve them getting pushed that direction), and the hands to the head needs to be changed, I understand if a guy intentionally clubs a dude in the head, but that's pretty rare. I actually agree with the horse collar rules, that's really dangerous, and if you have to do that, you got beat anyway.

My other big complaint is that it's not an even playing field in regards to safety. There's all kinds of rules about hitting receivers, but not enough done about crackbacks (and I'm not saying outlaw them), or cut blocks, which can be FAR more damaging than most defensive hits. Play in the trenches in the NFL is just brutal.

My main stance is that it's a dangerous sport, and you should know that when you sign up. It's one thing to protect HS and college kids, but a professional player should know that they're likely trading their future health for a large sum of money. That's why the players get compensated as well as they do. I'm not saying make it a free-for-all, but there needs to be a balance.

[HailtotheYo]

My other big complaint is that it's not an even playing field in regards to safety. There's all kinds of rules about hitting receivers, but not enough done about crackbacks (and I'm not saying outlaw them), or cut blocks, which can be FAR more damaging than most defensive hits. Play in the trenches in the NFL is just brutal.

First of all, absolutely 100% those can be much - MUCH worse than anything outside of a direct helmet to helmet hit. Totally agree, I played RB and have felt bad about a block more than once.

That said, outside of removing crack backs and cuts what else can be done ? The rules have changed so that a cut block can only be made in the direction of the play (IE, the fullbuck running out front can cut the linebacker, corner, whomever in front of him going with the flow of the play) but can't be made in the opposite direction (IE, the fullback turning and coming back down the field to cut a DL fixing to catch the RB from behind). They've also eliminated the HI-LOW block as well. Along the OL/DL you can cut but you've got to be infront of the man to do it. All of that is so the defensive player has the block coming from "infront" of them and can "see it and defend against it."

For a crack back to be legal the offensive player has to get his helmet "across the facemask" and hit the defensive player from the front.

Honestly that's about all you can do in terms of those two things.

I think the reason we're seeing the outcry now is because of two things: 1 - the concussion issues have risen to the forefront. Because the league has gone so long without publically adressing anything they've shot themselves in the foot. The last 5-6 years we've seen the former players blow up about the league doing absolutely nothing to support them upon retirement ...

2 - ... and now we've added the "everything is made public" aspect to what happens to players. There's no hiding anything anymore and the NFL has no choice but to do something. The number of idiotic hits (Meriweather's) seems to have increased the last few years.

[naiwf]

Dallas Clark is done for the season. Looks like this will be the year that the Colts don't make a deep run.

[Meacon Keaton]

Hey! Me waiting for Vernon Davis and not jumping at Dallas Clark in Fantasy Football actually paid off.

[gunnar hendershow]

I'm so glad I picked Jermichael Finley over Dallas Clark now!

And with Clark's injury, it only adds to the idea that this year's Colts aren't the Colts we're used to. I can see them missing out on the playoffs entirely, but we certainly shouldn't get used to that being the case. There's four teams in the AFC who are basically vying to be the best in the conference, Pittsburgh, New England, New York, and Baltimore. The AFC South has as good a chance to be won by Indy as it does Houston or Tennessee. Never count out Jeff Fisher to take a 6-10 team and make them a division winner.

I'm interested to see where the top four in the conference are in 4-5 weeks. Baltimore just got done it's rough start to the season with a 4-2 record, Pittsburgh's got three straight road games and then has a game at home against New England, with the exception of going to Pittsburgh and Chicago the Pats have a very favorable schedule with home games against Minny, Indy, and New York left. The Jets, as you expect, have to go to New England in week 13. On top of that they have back-to-back road dates in Pittsburgh and Chicago in late December. Green Bay's not going to be easy this week, but if they get past that game they could be 9-2 or even 10-1 going into the game in Foxboro. Unfortunately, that would return us all to the Hard Knocks days from before the season started.

It's going to be interesting to see where the rest of the season leads in the AFC. The conference is much less predictable with a Patriots team in flux, a Steelers team who has looked dominant but at the same time lost their one big game this season, and a Colts team which just doesn't look like they're getting it rolling at all this season.