Major League Baseball 2010

[SeanDMan]

The NFL is the only sport that has it right at this point and even though their officiating is often as lame as the NBA's or MLB's before coaches make challenges, we would never have an umpire blow a historic event without any recourse except for a worthless apology after the fact.

I actually think that the NHL has a better system then the NFL does. I dislike the idea of coaches challenges, even though it's clearly better than nothing. I like the idea far more of a multiple official system where they decide, amongst themselves, whether something needs to be reviewed.

On another note, what's with the recent wave of prefect games? This would've been the third perfect game in like a month.

Phasing PEDs out of baseball has a lot to do with this, I think you'll find. A lot of the old mammoth home run or rocket doubles are now soft fly outs because the hitters don't have the raw strength to destroy the baseball anymore. Pitching is a refined art painted with ligaments and tendons; it had to be that way because pitchers had to make the balls miss the bats because if their pitches were flat, they were souveneirs. Now that players can't hit the coating off the ball anymore, they're going to need to seriously adjust their mechanics in order to even the playing field. Expect the next decade or so to be dominated by pitching as the lower leagues try and coach their way back to square.

[DMN in the House]

Honestly, I don't see why this is such a big deal. I understand the whole 'once in a lifetime' argument, but, to be honest, lately I've lost a lot of my passion for sports. Its nice when my teams win, it still sucks when they lose, but there's nothing to get angry over. I think it came about due to a specific poster on another board regarding the Lakers/Suns series. Just... so much hate. It's crazy.

It's a sport, people. Life goes on, and he didn't kill anyone. It's no big deal. No reason to get angry.

[HailtotheYo]

Phasing PEDs out of baseball has a lot to do with this, I think you'll find. A lot of the old mammoth home run or rocket doubles are now soft fly outs because the hitters don't have the raw strength to destroy the baseball anymore. Pitching is a refined art painted with ligaments and tendons; it had to be that way because pitchers had to make the balls miss the bats because if their pitches were flat, they were souveneirs. Now that players can't hit the coating off the ball anymore, they're going to need to seriously adjust their mechanics in order to even the playing field. Expect the next decade or so to be dominated by pitching as the lower leagues try and coach their way back to square.

Really ? Come on now. Pitching/hitting go in cycles. They have over the course of baseball history.

What, all the guys got off the cocaine and beanies after the 80's and that's why 1990 and 1991 both saw seven no-hitters ? And please, if you think hitters were the only PED offenders ..... just, wow. Shit runs in cycles. Hitters figure it out and pitching catches up. Now pitching is starting to catch up, and hitters will have to figure it out.

It's a sport, people. Life goes on, and he didn't kill anyone. It's no big deal. No reason to get angry.

Kind of like that blown tuck eh ?

Edited June 3, 2010 by HailtotheKing

[JStarr]

Problem is, I think something majorly catastrophic, such as Bud Selig going toes-up and a commissioner with a spine getting hired, will have to happen before MLB gets off their asses and seriously considers instant replay.

Fix'd.

I do have to echo the praise for both Joyce and Galarraga being Ron Burgundy (staying classy) about the situation. People can start beating the drum for more replay right now, and as slowly as the wheels of Selig grind, something may happen by 2015. Maybe.

At least Joe West wasn't umpiring at first...Leyland and half the Tiger lineup would have gotten run for looking at him funny.

Rather talk about Griffey getting the hint and hanging it up, or the Braves going all Frank the Tank (streaking) into first place. And this is still with two starters (Melky and McLouth) having their heads firmly up their asses and Chipper seemingly unable to wipe his ass without straining something.

[HailtotheYo]

Griffey hanging it up all but signals the end of my generation's era of "our players." It really is kind of sad. Undoubtedly it was time and I'm glad he didn't try to stretch it out (in relative comparison to others). I'm also glad he went back to Seattle to end it.

I just wish we could see what his numbers would have been had he not been injured for like 5 years running. I honestly feel we'd be talking about the greatest player in the game.

[GhostMachine]

Let me give you an example of why I think my review booth idea would be good:

The criticism over Denkinger in the `85 Series is that he refused to reverse his decision.

Now imagine this scenario:

World Series game 6, bottom of the ninth, home team batting with 2 outs and bases loaded. Full count and the umpire calls the batter out on strikes when the pitch thrown is clearly a ball. The review booth calls down and says `no, it was a ball. Run walked in, game over'. One of two things happens here: a. The umpire reverses his call and the game is done. b. The umpire is a stubborn bastard who refuses to reverse his call, the review booth sends security and a stand-by replacement ump down to drag the umpire out of the game and reverses it anyway, and the stubborn umpire is looking at a lengthy suspension (ie, will be sitting most of next season and is done as a post-season umpire for the rest of his career), if not being fired outright.

Problem is, I think something majorly catastrophic, such as Bud Selig going toes-up and a commissioner with a spine getting hired, will have to happen before MLB gets off their asses and seriously considers instant replay.

Fix'd.

I do have to echo the praise for both Joyce and Galarraga being Ron Burgundy (staying classy) about the situation. People can start beating the drum for more replay right now, and as slowly as the wheels of Selig grind, something may happen by 2015. Maybe.

At least Joe West wasn't umpiring at first...Leyland and half the Tiger lineup would have gotten run for looking at him funny.

Rather talk about Griffey getting the hint and hanging it up, or the Braves going all Frank the Tank (streaking) into first place. And this is still with two starters (Melky and McLouth) having their heads firmly up their asses and Chipper seemingly unable to wipe his ass without straining something.

I approve your fix, because frankly I agree with it. Selig sucks bigtime as commissioner.

The Joe West comment is funny because its so true. Like Ozzie said, fans don't go to games to see managers manage or umpires ump.

Sad to see Griffey retire, as he's one of my favorite players and always has been, but I can completely understand why. He's a shadow of his former self.

Couldn't care less about the Braves, though, and hope the Phillies can reverse their skid and take back first place. I sort of hate the Braves because I'm in a Braves market area where I happen to know there are just as many Reds fans (like me), yet ALL you ever hear about on tv is the Braves. Thankfully we get Reds games on our Fox Sports channel here; they switched from Braves to Reds a year or two back.

(I'd also like to note that despite being a Reds AND Griffey fan, I was against the team signing him when it happened, and was glad when he left. I don't think he would have suffered those injuries he had with the Reds if he had stayed in Seattle, and the Reds might have been contenders if they had spent the money they paid him on a decent outfielder and good pitching.)

[naiwf]

I actually think that the NHL has a better system then the NFL does. I dislike the idea of coaches challenges, even though it's clearly better than nothing. I like the idea far more of a multiple official system where they decide, amongst themselves, whether something needs to be reviewed.

I know that the NHL can review whether a goal is legit or not, but is there anything else they actually check on a monitor? I think the NHL officials are the best of the 4 major sports, but I'm not entirely sure the extent of their replay system.

[Pizza]

Is there anything else they need to check? Icings and offsides are pretty minor and would waste too much time to review, and penalties should be left up to human discretion.

[SeanDMan]

Really ? Come on now. Pitching/hitting go in cycles. They have over the course of baseball history.

So when you were getting your major in kinesiology, I'm guessing you were getting your doctorate in statistical analysis as well?

Regardless, it's nice to have someone who knows everything about everything. I'm glad you're here to provide us with your wisdom about what life was like back in the golden era before Vince ruined everything.

I know that the NHL can review whether a goal is legit or not, but is there anything else they actually check on a monitor? I think the NHL officials are the best of the 4 major sports, but I'm not entirely sure the extent of their replay system.

They can, but none of those replays make television. The NHL can review pucks out of bounds to determine where a faceoff should be, or on the case of an icing, which players were on the ice so as not to let coaches make illegal substitutions. They can review net dislodgment and stoppages in play, things of that nature as well, primarily if it means the clock should be wound back further than it currently has been.. Those reviews can't result in penalties since those can't be called from video, but they can change where a faceoff takes place or how much time is left on the clock in a game, and those things can have huge impacts on the results of games. For the most part, though, it's just good housekeeping, so they do it during TV timeouts and never mention it.

[HailtotheYo]

Really ? Come on now. Pitching/hitting go in cycles. They have over the course of baseball history.

So when you were getting your major in kinesiology, I'm guessing you were getting your doctorate in statistical analysis as well?

Wow, fantastic discussion. You can be derisive all you like but that doesn't back up your opinion. I mean, it isn't like the different offensive/defensive eras in baseball are labeled for a reason or anything ... oh wait.

And you're right, the influx of brand new - hitter friendly parks had nothing to do with it. Nor did the shift in pitching mentality (ie - not throwing inside nearly as much), change in the technology of how bats are produced, or the further expansion of the sport and dilution of the talent pool. Certainly the amphetamines during the 70's and 80's didn't help the players, nor did the doctoring of the baseball during those decades. Clearly it was PEDs the last 15yrs or so and nothing more, and the fact that pitchers used them too doesn't matter in the equation.

How silly of me to think that anything else could have contributed. I'm glad you displayed your humor, wit, and absolute understanding of the matter so we could be set straight.

Regardless, it's nice to have someone who knows everything about everything. I'm glad you're here to provide us with your wisdom about what life was like back in the golden era before Vince ruined everything.

Too bad that has nothing to do with this.

[Powerhart]

I think hitters lately tent to swing for the home run rather than (sometimes) play it smart and make a normal hit just to get in base, you don't always have to swing for the fences sometimes you have to play by the book be smart, play as a team. Thing is, big hitters are the ones that make the big bucks and get the recognition, I think that's the problem with the hitters lately and why the pitchers are making so many great games lately.

[naiwf]

Selig just squashed the chance to overturn the decision. One of these years baseball may finally move forward into the 20th century

[Fait Accompli]

I've long since stopped wanting Selig to man up and do the right thing because he's gonna sit there with that dumb look on his face, stammer, and try to put some spin about how he can't do such-and-such because he has to stay to the "best interest of baseball" umbrella that he can hide under so he doesn't have to make a ruling that will piss off the old-timey, hardcore baseball lifers who don't like change.

[naiwf]

I've long since stopped wanting Selig to man up and do the right thing because he's gonna sit there with that dumb look on his face, stammer, and try to put some spin about how he can't do such-and-such because he has to stay to the "best interest of baseball" umbrella that he can hide under so he doesn't have to make a ruling that will piss off the old-timey, hardcore baseball lifers who don't like change.

My favorite part of the transcript, "There is no dispute that last night's game should have ended differently," Selig said in a statement. "While the human element has always been an integral part of baseball, it is vital that mistakes on the field be addressed."

So in summary Bud's saying, "Even though the ump screwed the pooch and it's "vital" that mistakes be addressed, I'm just going to sit here with my thumb up my ass as usual and discuss changes to the system sometime in the future when you guys have all forgotten about this." I have never seen a sport so resistant to embrace the age that it's actually played in.

[HailtotheYo]

Bud Selig is the single worst thing to happen to baseball in the last 50yrs. Period.

[Fait Accompli]

The only way I can think of a situation where Selig would be forced into action quicker than anything would be if something like this happened during the World Series or if it happened to one of the marquee teams of the league. I mean the last time he was forced into doing anything was after the 2002 All-Star Game where he made the game into a "whichever league wins gets homefield advantage" game to sort of stop the managers from using up all the players. That little bit did nothing because most of the time the homefield advantage card really doesn't come into play and there were a few games after the rule was enacted that looked like they could've mirrored the '02 game if not for a big inning to produce a clear cut winner.

[JStarr]

Yes, this incident needs to hasten the push to expand replay into use for extreme circumstances other than home runs.

But claiming that a play needs to be overturned 15 hours after it happens is ludicrous. If the other umpires had gotten together last night and let Joyce know he needed to be corrected, that's one thing. Swinging calls the next day isn't part of the commissioner's gig, nor should it be.

If you start with overturning this call, where do you stop?

Every bang-bang play could conceivably affect the outcome of a game and alter the season, not just a guy's stats or a line in the record books. It's rare that Bud's right about much of anything, but far as I'm concerned, right now, he is.

[naiwf]

Yes, this incident needs to hasten the push to expand replay into use for extreme circumstances other than home runs.

But claiming that a play needs to be overturned 15 hours after it happens is ludicrous. If the other umpires had gotten together last night and let Joyce know he needed to be corrected, that's one thing. Swinging calls the next day isn't part of the commissioner's gig, nor should it be.

If you start with overturning this call, where do you stop?

Every bang-bang play could conceivably affect the outcome of a game and alter the season, not just a guy's stats or a line in the record books. It's rare that Bud's right about much of anything, but far as I'm concerned, right now, he is.

You stop when it's the 27th out and everyone in the country has seen the play and realized that it's wrong. If they can overturn a decision for the "pine tar game" and replay the game 25 days later, they can take away a bogus hit and give the guy his perfect game 15 hours after the fact.

[sahyder1]

Bud Selig is the single worst thing to happen to baseball in the last 50yrs. Period.

Yeah because Wild Card, new ballparks all over the place, relative labor peace, interleague play, big TV contracts, higher revenue have been such a downer for baseball!

The only way I can think of a situation where Selig would be forced into action quicker than anything would be if something like this happened during the World Series or if it happened to one of the marquee teams of the league. I mean the last time he was forced into doing anything was after the 2002 All-Star Game where he made the game into a "whichever league wins gets homefield advantage" game to sort of stop the managers from using up all the players. That little bit did nothing because most of the time the homefield advantage card really doesn't come into play and there were a few games after the rule was enacted that looked like they could've mirrored the '02 game if not for a big inning to produce a clear cut winner.

I can GUARANTEE that we will have an expansion of instant replay by opening day 2011 at the latest. There just isn't any way around it.

I was not expecting Selig to overturn the decision.....and nor should he. Was it a big screw up? Yes. But you just can't do it. It would put future commissioners in an impossible spot too. Teams "protest" games all the time and nothing ever comes of it. The only solution is instant replay so something like this doesn't happen again.

Joyce, Leyland, Galarraga have all been classy about it. Lets just put in replay and be done with it.

[HailtotheYo]

Yeah because Wild Card, new ballparks all over the place, relative labor peace, interleague play, big TV contracts, higher revenue have been such a downer for baseball!

Depends on who you ask for most of that.

Let's not forget what the man has done. He essentially led the collusion on the ousting of Fay Vincent. Before which he was caught with rigging the signing of FA's (with Reinsdorf) and then paid 280m to players (1985-1987) to sweep it under the rug and is a huge part of why Selig and Fehr have never gotten along and the MLBPA and Selig have always butted heads.

Wild Card, depends on what side of the fence you reside on. Baseball is about the Pennant Race, but since the Wild Card it really hasn't been. The "real" races have been for "the best second place." Splitting into three Divisions and essentially absolving traditional rivalries wasn't popular with everyone. Toying with the game wasn't popular with everyone. I'm not necessarily saying WC is a shit idea because it has provided some good for the game. However, the NCAA just expanded the tourny and will get more money from it ... but it was still a shit idea and only further dilutes the tournament.

There's also his shady dealings with some of baseball's biggest names. He reinstated Steinbrenner (after Stienbrenner had paid a known gambler for "dirt" on Dave Winfield after Winfield called him out on a 300K contribution to his charity that was in his contract, that Steinbrenner didn't pay). So he reinstated a man that was paying thugs on the street to dredge on his players. There's also his wonderful handling of the Pete Rose situation. He all but told Pete he'd at the minimum allow him to be on the HOF ballot if he'd come out, admit his dealings, and then move on and help the game. Rose has done all of that. Where's Selig's half ?

Of course, there's also the huge clouds looming over his initial years as Commish and how he "transferred team operations to his daughter" of the Brewers so as to avoid technical conflicts.

Selig also oversaw the 94-95 strike which saw Baseball lose the World Series for the first time in 90yrs, and also become the first American Sport to lose its entire postseason due to labor dispute.

We've got the racketeering, conspiring, and defrauding (the Expos minority owners) issues with the whole Montreal deal. Amazingly though, Selig managed to settle out of court because the contraction/move of Montreal couldn't happen until the case against him and Loria (Expos majority owner) was over.

We've got the All-Star game fiascos as well. Stopping the tie in the 11th (which I admit can go either way), and of course the absolutely horrific and idiotic ruling to grant home field advantage to the league that wins the AS game.

There's been the ruling that Selig overstepped his authority with the Kenny Rogers situation in '05.

Then, the steroid issue. He's sold the players down the river and all but categorically denied responsibility of the league/ownership. In fact, the independent investigation headed by Mitchell (that Selig inacted) was found to have done just that. He further pushed away after Bonds tied the HR record by not attending the Giant's games after he tied it. He's been shown to have basically done nothing in the entire case until after being called down by Congress. Of course, there's also the fact that he presided over the entire "era" of steriods and did dick all about it.

Not everyone is a fan of (and many, MANY involved in the game don't like) Selig's decision to extend the post-season into November simply for ratings. Players don't like it and managers don't like it. People like Mike Sciosca are adament about it being a bad idea due to the "ridiculous" days off for no reason.

Oh, and it isn't just baseball here in the US. In support of the Israel Baseball League Selig (and his family) served on the Advisory Board ... which he promptly left due to issues with the financial management of the league.