Major League Baseball 2010

[HailtotheYo]

Seriously ? I'd love to see you spin how last year's Mets squad had good pitching (especially starting pitching)or how this year's pitching has been "good" .... I mean Pelfrey has just now shown up after sucking it up for like 3-4 years. The starting rotation hasn't had more than one guy stay constant for more than 2-3 years in a decade (Glavine is the only person with a significant stint and Santana is working on his third year). These aren't signs of a rotation that is good, or doesn't have problems.

But, to be a bit more specific I was referring to the Mets development of pitchers (hence the QB reference).

[livid]

Yeah...that was a ridiculous statement to make. Sure, they've always really had an ace but nothing really beyond that and you need more than just one good pitcher to be real good. Hitting has never really been a problem for them, though.

[sahyder1]

Seriously ? I'd love to see you spin how last year's Mets squad had good pitching (especially starting pitching)or how this year's pitching has been "good" .... I mean Pelfrey has just now shown up after sucking it up for like 3-4 years. The starting rotation hasn't had more than one guy stay constant for more than 2-3 years in a decade (Glavine is the only person with a significant stint and Santana is working on his third year). These aren't signs of a rotation that is good, or doesn't have problems.

But, to be a bit more specific I was referring to the Mets development of pitchers (hence the QB reference).

Who said anything about last year? Their pitching has been very good this year. Perez was a mess last year but the talent is there. He's shown it on the MLB level. Maine was hurt but again, he's shown he can be a solid pitcher. Yes, Pelfrey took a step back last year but his talent was never in question. Niese gets better each time out. They had Kazmir but the previous administration screwed that up. Mejia is solid....if I was a Mets fan I would hope they don't screw him up like the Yankees did with Joba.

[livid]

Well when you say "has never been a problem", that implies you're not talking about just this year.

EDIT: Though, that's not what you said. But the statement you made as "except pitching hasn't been the issue" can be construed as more than just this year, especially since HttK's point stemmed from a group 15 years ago.

[sahyder1]

Well when you say "has never been a problem", that implies you're not talking about just this year.

I said that where? Reading is good people....try it sometimes.

Back to the point though....yes they had a rough little patch but Niese, Pelfrey, Mejia and before that Kazmir is a pretty good run of good young pitching.

[livid]

And I edited accordingly after I realized that's not what you said...

[HailtotheYo]

Who said anything about last year? Their pitching has been very good this year. Perez was a mess last year but the talent is there. He's shown it on the MLB level. Maine was hurt but again, he's shown he can be a solid pitcher. Yes, Pelfrey took a step back last year but his talent was never in question. Niese gets better each time out. They had Kazmir but the previous administration screwed that up. Mejia is solid....if I was a Mets fan I would hope they don't screw him up like the Yankees did with Joba.

So damn near putting them back 20 years eh ?

And yes, my comments encompased the time frame of Generation K until now. But speaking of this year, 3 of the 5 starters have ERA's over 4 .... and uh, where are the young guys ? Neise has gotten shelled at the major league level, up until this year Pelfrey has been horrible, and Meija can't really be judged yet.

[sahyder1]

Who said anything about last year? Their pitching has been very good this year. Perez was a mess last year but the talent is there. He's shown it on the MLB level. Maine was hurt but again, he's shown he can be a solid pitcher. Yes, Pelfrey took a step back last year but his talent was never in question. Niese gets better each time out. They had Kazmir but the previous administration screwed that up. Mejia is solid....if I was a Mets fan I would hope they don't screw him up like the Yankees did with Joba.

So damn near putting them back 20 years eh ?

And yes, my comments encompased the time frame of Generation K until now. But speaking of this year, 3 of the 5 starters have ERA's over 4 .... and uh, where are the young guys ? Neise has gotten shelled at the major league level, up until this year Pelfrey has been horrible, and Meija can't really be judged yet.

How many Mets games have you watched this year? Yes, 3 of those starters have ERAs over 4 right now again...I have to ask, how many Mets games have you watched this year? I hope you're seriously not suggesting that Santana's 4+ ERA on May 5th is indicative of anything. Maine has been solid recently. Perez is still a work in progress, I'll give you that but he's shown he can be a very good starter in the majors. Have you watched Pelfrey pitch at all this year? Have you watched Niese pitch at all? He got shelled in 2008. He was decent last year and has been very good this year. Pelfrey showed in 2008 that he could be a good #2 or #3. He had a bad year last year but the Mets had so many injuries on offense last year that NO ONE on that team produced. It was a horrible situation. He's bounced right back this year and has been among the best pitchers in the league this year.

[HailtotheYo]

How many Mets games have you watched this year? Yes, 3 of those starters have ERAs over 4 right now again...

With that stat, how many games I've seen really doesn't matter does it ?

I hope you're seriously not suggesting that Santana's 4+ ERA on May 5th is indicative of anything. Maine has been solid recently. Perez is still a work in progress, I'll give you that but he's shown he can be a very good starter in the majors. Have you watched Pelfrey pitch at all this year? Have you watched Niese pitch at all? He got shelled in 2008. He was decent last year and has been very good this year.

Ok wait. You're saying Santana's 4+ ERA isn't indicative of anything ? Yeah, it is. It's indicative of a not so great start from the freaking ace of the staff. Maine, recently ? Oddly enough I'm talking about since Generation K flopped. Quit trying to make 18 months encompass 15 years. What you're arguing as proof, doesn't fit the time frame .... nor does a year/year and a half time frame overshadow 15 years.

Uh, and I made the statement that until this year Pelfrey has sucked. You just decide to not pay attention to that ? Again though, 6 starts doesn't negate several years.

Niese ? decent last year ? very good this year ? I'll ask you if you've watched him pitch at all .... his career stats (including his very good this year) are 3-3 with a 4.46 ERA 11.2 H/9 and a 1.6 WHIP. Yeah.

Pelfrey showed in 2008 that he could be a good #2 or #3. He had a bad year last year but the Mets had so many injuries on offense last year that NO ONE on that team produced.

Oh God, really ? Because the offense sucked and got hurt ..... the pitchers couldn't pitch ?

Seriously, you're starting to sound like ECK.

Edited May 6, 2010 by HailtotheKing

[sahyder1]

How many Mets games have you watched this year? Yes, 3 of those starters have ERAs over 4 right now again...

With that stat, how many games I've seen really doesn't matter does it ?

I hope you're seriously not suggesting that Santana's 4+ ERA on May 5th is indicative of anything. Maine has been solid recently. Perez is still a work in progress, I'll give you that but he's shown he can be a very good starter in the majors. Have you watched Pelfrey pitch at all this year? Have you watched Niese pitch at all? He got shelled in 2008. He was decent last year and has been very good this year.

Ok wait. You're saying Santana's 4+ ERA isn't indicative of anything ? Yeah, it is. It's indicative of a not so great start from the freaking ace of the staff. Maine, recently ? Oddly enough I'm talking about since Generation K flopped. Quit trying to make 18 months encompass 15 years. What you're arguing as proof, doesn't fit the time frame .... nor does a year/year and a half time frame overshadow 15 years.

Uh, and I made the statement that until this year Pelfrey has sucked. You just decide to not pay attention to that ? Again though, 6 starts doesn't negate several years.

Niese ? decent last year ? very good this year ? I'll ask you if you've watched him pitch at all .... his career stats (including his very good this year) are 3-3 with a 4.46 ERA 11.2 H/9 and a 1.6 WHIP. Yeah.

Pelfrey showed in 2008 that he could be a good #2 or #3. He had a bad year last year but the Mets had so many injuries on offense last year that NO ONE on that team produced.

Oh God, really ? Because the offense sucked and got hurt ..... the pitchers couldn't pitch ?

Seriously, you're starting to sound like ECK.

[HailtotheYo]

This post right here pretty much tells me you haven't watched a Mets game at all so kindly take this discussion to someone who hasn't watched 99% of Mets games in the past decade. Niese has 74 innings in the big leagues right now. You judging him by his ERA with that few innings shows how clueless you are about baseball. ERAs can easily be inflated with that few innings. You're obviously completely clueless about the 2009 Mets so discussing that with you serves no purpose. If you don't think injuries around all around you killing your team's season in May doesn't effect guys then once again I have to say you're completely clueless. Why not bring up Pelfrey's 2008? He was great down the stretch as the Mets were in the race until the last day. Your "several years" comment about Pelfrey is laughable at best.

Once again, please go back and watch some games before you come in here.

Wow, Hi ECK, how ya doin ?

Quick question, do you have to watch the majority of a team's games to know whether or not a 10-12 record with a 5.03 ERA is good ? Let's look at Pelfrey, shall we ...

'06-'07 he had 94 Innings pitched, was 5-9, had an ERA of 5.53, had a 10.5 H/9, a WHIP of 1.7, and walked as many guys as he struck out.

'08 he was full time in the rotation and went 13-11 with a 3.72 ... he was 8-5 over the last three months and was 0-3 in September. He pitched decently enough to win 3 of his 5 starts in September.

'09 again in the full rotation, 10-12 with a 5.03 ERA, 10.4 H/9, WHIP of 1.5, and gave up a longball per 9 pitched.

Then, we've got this year's hot start. So, you're telling me that I have no clue about Pelfrey when you're stating that a stretch run two years ago in which he actually didn't win a game during the last month of the season, and this year's hot start are the real truth ? That'd be like 5 months out of his career is the real indication rather than the other like 2 and a half seasons he's pitched (time wise). Um, no.

I watch plenty of baseball, thanks. Do I watch every game ? No. Every Mets game ? No. I've seen about a quarter of them this year though. Having 9 channels that show games helps with that.

About Niese, what's clueless ... is you taking one of the three things I pointed out about him. However, you can judge that he's very good/decent in 74 innings but I can't judge that he maybe isn't in the same time frame ? How does that work ? I pointed out his ERA in conjunction with his H/9 and WHIP ... there's a reason for that. Maybe because the earned run average directly ties into how many hits per nine you give up, and how many people you're putting on base per inning ? Right, but I clearly am clueless about baseball.

EDIT - oddly enough, there's this little blog:

My link

Edited May 6, 2010 by HailtotheKing

[sahyder1]

You do need to watch regularly to judge how good or bad someone is at 26. Numbers don't do it justice. You can tell how good someone is based on their stuff. Roy Halladay had a 10+ ERA in his 2nd season. How did that one work out? In his 3rd season Pedro Martinez had an ERA north of 3.7, first full season Randy Johnson was a starter his ERA was 4.82. Maddux's ERA in first season? 5.61. Tim Lincecum had 4 ERA his first ear. Am I saying Niese and Pelfrey are going to end up half as good as those guys? No. But guess what, those guys could pitch. Anyone watching could tell that. Young pitchers do get bombed once or twice and due to a lack of innings those ERAs get inflated. Doesn't mean they suck. I've watched every single start Niese and Pelfrey have made in their careers and yes those two do have enough talent where I'd buy them as 15 game winners with a mid 3 ERA.

[HailtotheYo]

Guess what other three guys had that talent for the Mets ? How'd they turn out ?

You're acting like the judgement on Niese is ok for you to make, but not for me to make. How exactly does that work ? I'm talking about performance, not potential. Being the fan of baseball, and expert you clearly are then you of all people would know that potential means shit really. Performance is what matters.

Personally I have a perfect example. Wade Townsend from Rice University. I actually know the guy. I was at his house when he was drafted by the Rays. All the potential in the world. He anchored the Rice CWS staff that also had Humber and Niemann on it. Potential out the wazoo on this kid. Guess what happened to him ? When he's been healthy he's been shelled. Even at 27 now he's as talented as anyone, but it hasn't translated. That's much more the case than the ones that actually turn out.

You're talking about what these guys could be and I'm talking about what they have been. Huge difference.

[sahyder1]

Dallas Braden who's been trash talking A-Rod lately has a perfect game going through 8

[naiwf]

Eat that A-Roid

[Lowerdeck]

Just got a message saying someone threw a perfect game. Dallas Braden for Oakland.

Very impressive shutting down the Rays of all teams.

[HailtotheYo]

I'm happy as hell with the A's being my team, but fucking asshole does it a week after I trade him in my fantasy league ... fucker

[sahyder1]

Glad he got it. Love that his Grandmother told A-Rod to "stick it" after the game. It truly is amazing that in the long history of the sport only 19 perfect games have happened.

[thuganomic]

Just want to add one thing. Santana's ERA was 2.08 before that uncharacteristic shelling in Philadelphia (which I was at ). I'm pretty sure he won't stay above 4 in ERA for long.

[EddieG]

So what's the difference between a no-no and a perfect game?