8th Generation Consoles

[Herr Matzat]

Steam is the iTunes of gameing. Sony, as of now, is not capebell of propper digital distribution. Esp. their "Full Games" are way overpriced online. Besides, the on disc games are fairly well protected on PS3... no idea how stuff works out for XBox, i never played one, their arcade marked place seems pritty nice, their piracy protection dossent. I wonder if they will switch to bluray.

Valve Head Guy on Piracy.

Digital Rights Management (DRM) is a sensitive issue. Many games have been the subject of boycotts due to a draconian use of DRM. The most extreme DRM forces players to be online, and to stay online, if they wish to play the game. What are your views on DRM?

In general, we think there is a fundamental misconception about piracy. Piracy is almost always a service problem and not a pricing problem. For example, if a pirate offers a product anywhere in the world, 24 x 7, purchasable from the convenience of your personal computer, and the legal provider says the product is region-locked, will come to your country 3 months after the US release, and can only be purchased at a brick and mortar store, then the pirate's service is more valuable. Most DRM solutions diminish the value of the product by either directly restricting a customers use or by creating uncertainty.

Our goal is to create greater service value than pirates, and this has been successful enough for us that piracy is basically a non-issue for our company. For example, prior to entering the Russian market, we were told that Russia was a waste of time because everyone would pirate our products. Russia is now about to become our largest market in Europe.

Source

http://www.tcs.cam.ac.uk/story_type/site_trail_story/interview-gabe-newell/

Edited January 7, 2012 by Michael Matzat on a Plane

[thatshortguy]

Matzat's post is EXACTLY why you'll see Sony further their partnership with Valve. Surely Portal 2 will not be the last we've heard of this alliance.

[KevinStorm]

Matzat's post is right. There have been at least three games that I was going to "buy" from the "store," but I decided to get them through Steam because Steam's downloads are faster and the updates are automatic.

[gunnar hendershow]

When I wasn't relying chiefly on a Blackberry for internet I loved Steam. That's the future and, yes, if you offer me something I can download quickly or something I can get for free but have added risk I will likely pay the money. Sony seems keen to make that the format for their games too, and it won't surprise me to see Gamestop run into financial trouble during the 8th gen as a result.

[Vamp]

The games now are good, but I would like to see games in the next generation add depth. More games that have as much content as Skyrim, for example and less games that are like 3-5 hours long and repetitive.

Man people who say this are soooo wrong. I haven't got Skyrim yet, I'm going to, but Oblivion got reptitive so there's no way Skyrim won't. Also, Skyrim works because it's pretty much one of the few games that d owhat it does, it wouldn't if every game did it. Skyrim's bugs are also because of how massive it is, and that problem will always occur no matter what the technology. That and Uncharted is quite short but still one o the best games to play, precisely because it is short. It's a fun short thrill ride. Less variety is the last damn thing I want in gaming.

[The Mask of Norro]

As far as improving graphics for next-gen go, I saw some video awhile back about replacing polygon graphics in gaming with molecules to do more realistic, detailed graphics than what are capable now in gaming while keeping load-times to a minimum at the same time. Seemed fairly impressive, though I did wonder how people would look in the engine since all it showed in the video was grass, rocks and trees.

I mean they were sexy, sexy grass, rocks and trees, but still.

EDIT: Some company named Euclideon, that's the one. "Unlimited Detail Rendering". Lot of people critical about it, not sure if it's really going to work or if it's just blowing smoke or what, but if this sort-of thing takes off then that's where I see graphics going next. It's really nice and I could see a lot of potential out of it-- ESPECIALLY in the realm of ensuring less load-times for games. That's what I'd like to see.

[jase12881]

I just hope the tech leap can support things like better AI and bigger games because I don't think graphics really can't get that much better at this point.

I disagree with the graphics. I'm not sure that they NEED to get much better, but there is most definitely room to work. For one, I've rarely seen games where characters open their mouths and don't have teeth that look like they were painted on a dolls face. Faces in general still have a ways to go before they look even close to realistic. I'm not saying that I need a game to look like a photograph, but there's still a lot of places where graphics can be improved. That said, I WOULD rather they focus on creating game experience with some depth.

Man people who say this are soooo wrong. I haven't got Skyrim yet, I'm going to, but Oblivion got reptitive so there's no way Skyrim won't. Also, Skyrim works because it's pretty much one of the few games that d owhat it does, it wouldn't if every game did it. Skyrim's bugs are also because of how massive it is, and that problem will always occur no matter what the technology. That and Uncharted is quite short but still one o the best games to play, precisely because it is short. It's a fun short thrill ride. Less variety is the last damn thing I want in gaming.

You're right in a way. Skyrim does eventually get repetitive (especially if you play a straight up warrior-type) but not in the way that some games do, where it's the same exact content copied and pasted 1000 times because they developers were too lazy or pressed for time to legitimately pad out the game. And as far as short games go, I don't mind that if I'm renting it, as I'm trying to get through it before I return it, but if I buy a game, it damn sure better give me a reason to play it longer than a couple hours considering games cost $60-70. If I spend that on a game that I can beat and be completely done with in 5-6 hours, I feel like I've wasted my money. Personally, I love a game I can spend 5-8 hours on and still not have scratched the surface of content, rare as those games are. If I get a good 20 hours out of a game nowadays I'm satisfied.

As far as variety. There's a decided lack of variety in gaming nowadays. At least as far as triple a titles go. I don't know if the current generation has limited what developers are able to do or what, but it seems like everybody wants to cash in on the fame of the money makers like Call of Duty or Halo or Grand Theft Auto etc so they just keep making clones of those games.

I'm not asking for a game to reinvent the wheel, but a little creativity, some semblence of a decent story, and adding at least SOMETHING to the same game play that we've seen 100,000 times would be kind of nice.

[apsham]

When I wasn't relying chiefly on a Blackberry for internet I loved Steam. That's the future and, yes, if you offer me something I can download quickly or something I can get for free but have added risk I will likely pay the money. Sony seems keen to make that the format for their games too, and it won't surprise me to see Gamestop run into financial trouble during the 8th gen as a result.

From working at a game store - I have to stay that good, huge percentage of people are weary of or just plain don't want to buy things online/digitally.

That coupled with the idea that many, many games I find are bought as presents and I don't see Gamestop running into TOO many problems.

[-A-]

Yeah, it's really hard to judge what needs to be improved with graphics. It seems like textures and shiny things have improved at an incredible rate and lighting and animation haven't. Even comparing modern games with something like Toy Story (which I know is rendered or whatever) the film looks a lot more natural. Even on top PCs games always end up looking too shiny and jagged.

LA Noire shows at least that it's possible that animations will soon improve to the point where people look realistic. Even in Skyrim I'm just totally put off by how robotic and hollow all of the characters seem with their jerky motion and soul-less eyes. As far as the game goes, I can pretty much see both sides. I like it that I get so many hours out of it, but there does seem to be a lot of padding and extremely repetitive gameplay. I'm an RPG fan, I've enjoyed everything from Baldur's Gate to Dungeon Siege to Skyrim, but my patience for 'go to this dungeon, work your way picking up treasure, fight some dude with a name and take his slightly-better equipment.' If I hadn't played so many I'd probably not think of this as quite as much of an issue, but how many times have I seen storylines where an indecisive monarch avoids picking sides and has one snivelly advisor who favours the evil dudes and one headstrong advisor who favours the good guys?

I sometimes have sessions of Skyrim where I feel like I've tuned out completely and I'm not even paying attention. There's something hypnotic about running through these long empty dungeons with evenly interspersed enemies. I have my treasure-searching routine down pat. I know where to look and how valuable something has to be to pick up. I usually fight in exactly the same way. When I leave a dungeon I have exactly the same routine of home - shops - smithing - shops - home. There's the odd quest that makes me sit up and pay attention, but otherwise the game's so generic I'm just grinding to see what perks and equipment I get.

I think after playing so many of these games I really value a title like Bioshock. Yeah, it's only 15 hours or so, but every second I feel like I'm challenged and paying attention. The scenery is unique and there are constant little touches of innovation that mean there's less drudgery. Does Skyrim have more original content, or is it just spread out and padded with additional generic stuff?

Edited January 8, 2012 by -A-

[gunnar hendershow]

When I wasn't relying chiefly on a Blackberry for internet I loved Steam. That's the future and, yes, if you offer me something I can download quickly or something I can get for free but have added risk I will likely pay the money. Sony seems keen to make that the format for their games too, and it won't surprise me to see Gamestop run into financial trouble during the 8th gen as a result.

From working at a game store - I have to stay that good, huge percentage of people are weary of or just plain don't want to buy things online/digitally.

That coupled with the idea that many, many games I find are bought as presents and I don't see Gamestop running into TOO many problems.

People took awhile to switch over to DVDs and HD too. It's not a matter of everyone being turned off by gaming stores, but Gamestop is really big so if every store loses a little in sales that's a huge drop in profits. That's how they'll run into trouble, especially as game developers continue to try and get rid of the selling and buying of used games. I hope for your sake retail gaming doesn't run into problems though.

[Robsturgh]

I just hope this next generation brings about a bunch of new IPs too, I am bored to death of almost every franchise currently around, last year was absolutely ridiculous.

[Captain Eo]

I personally prefer digital downloads, I hate having to switch disks.

If Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo really want to steal marketshare from Gamestop and get their games on demand service to be a industry dominatior they need to align their prices of digital content to match what Gamestop offers for pre-owned titles.

[zero]

I disagree with the graphics. I'm not sure that they NEED to get much better, but there is most definitely room to work. For one, I've rarely seen games where characters open their mouths and don't have teeth that look like they were painted on a dolls face. Faces in general still have a ways to go before they look even close to realistic. I'm not saying that I need a game to look like a photograph, but there's still a lot of places where graphics can be improved. That said, I WOULD rather they focus on creating game experience with some depth.

Obviously I expect some improvement, but there's not going to be anything like the graphical leap from PS1 to PS2.

I personally prefer digital downloads, I hate having to switch disks.

The convenience is outweighed by a multitude of negatives though:

-You don't own the content and it can be removed at anytime.

-No refunds or exchanges.

-You can never trade it in.

-Hard drive space is limited.

-Pricing is bullshit. Why am I paying $60 directly to Microsoft for a Game On Demand when I'd also pay Gamestop $60? They have a store to maintain and employees to pay.

[Captain Eo]

I personally prefer digital downloads, I hate having to switch disks.

The convenience is outweighed by a multitude of negatives though:

-You don't own the content and it can be removed at anytime.

Are there any actual cases when this has happened?

-No refunds or exchanges.

I can't think of a single retailer that allows for refunds on new games, and exchanges are only for the same product if the original was defective

-You can never trade it in.

Got me on this one, but if the price of digital downloads is half of the retail disk copies I can see the need for trade ins to diminish a bit. Another neat idea I personally would like to see implemented would be the purchaser of the digital copy gets a "friend license" they can sell for half of what the game cost them. It would allow for the original buyer to recoup what would normally be "trade in value" as well as keep customers giving their money to the console and game developers instead of 3rd party retailers. PC gamers who use Steam can't trade in games either but you hear no complaints from them.

-Hard drive space is limited.

This is the biggest obstacle that digital media has to overcome, until we have hard drives larger than a TB as the default I don't see anyone going strictly digital for their game collection.

-Pricing is bullshit. Why am I paying $60 directly to Microsoft for a Game On Demand when I'd also pay Gamestop $60? They have a store to maintain and employees to pay.

Totally agree which is why I think there needs to be a complete overhaul of pricing for digital content. Steam is highly successful because they have great pricing and continually offer sales on even their most popular titles.

Overall with the way the market is now we could never go completely digital on game consoles but I say in another 10 years digital will be the premier way to get games and big box retailers will be the underdog.

[Kaney]

-No refunds or exchanges.

I can't think of a single retailer that allows for refunds on new games

I don't know if I'm misunderstanding you on this but I can't think of a single retailer that doesn't offer some sort of full refund withing x amount of days on almost every single purchase on the market in almost every single field.

The reason I'm against digital distribution as an enforced method of purchasing games is like Zero said, hard drive space, but also the amount of time it'd take to actually download anything. I don't have a super duper fast connection, I have enough speed to play XBox games and so on, but downloading something the size of say Skyrim would take me longer than I'd likely spend playing it.

[zero]

Also, in a case like the PSN disaster, the entire store goes down, you can't buy anything. Bad times.

It's definitely the future of media consumption, but unless consumers are protected (and we certainly aren't trending that way), it'll never be the sole way of doing things.

[TKz]

I've always heard a large reason why Sony doesn't put stuff on the PSN at the same price as it does in stores is that they've been threatened before by the larger stores that they'd stop stocking their products. I don't know how true that is, but if it is it makes sense they wouldn't want to take the risk of a store like GAME actually going through with it.

I mean, it's really fucking unlikely that if Sony starts offering games for £10 less that Game are just going to stop stocking sony stuff. I mean, that's going to hurt them a lot...

[Herr Matzat]

I don't know if I'm misunderstanding you on this but I can't think of a single retailer that doesn't offer some sort of full refund withing x amount of days on almost every single purchase on the market in almost every single field.

If your open a game it´s a don deal. We are not talking about returning a game you have not played here.

Apple actualy is fairly nice on this, they refunded everything i bought by accident. They always send you an e-mail that sais "Every sale is final, but this time we´ll refund you." - You even get to keep the MP3s/Apps.

Edited January 9, 2012 by Michael Matzat on a Plane

[jase12881]

Ehh hopefully they will just continue what they do now for some games only expand the selection. By that I mean allow digital downloads but also produce the game on a disc. As of right now, I believe it's mostly done on older games, but I have to admit it's nice that if I want I can just pop in my credit card number and within an hour or two I can be playing a game without leaving the house. The issue this generation for most consoles is hard drive space, but yeah optional digital downloads would work.

The problem is, I can see the gaming companies wanting to eventually go to an all download format, mostly FOR the reasons Zero stated above. You cant trade it in (Kill the used game market, where the companies don't make any money), they can yank it from you or find ways to force you to pay more (maybe make you pay by the hour or something crazy), they don't have to pay to make and ship the disc, and also the retailers and other middlemen don't get any kind of cut so all the money goes to the game companies.

I don't actually think they would use digital content to cut off your access to the games you own, but honestly I didn't think I would see the days when the companies charged you extra to play online with games you bought used either, so what do I know?

I'm not actually as bitter or cynical towards game companies at it may seem. The whole "squeeze every penny out of the game/franchise" attitude that's started to arise from game companies has me a little worried though. Mostly it's because I find gaming to already be a hobby that's rough on my wallet.

I would love to see some new and creative IPs this next generation, as well as some sequels or remakes of a couple old games that were awesome but haven't aged well graphically.

[Lint]

Ehh hopefully they will just continue what they do now for some games only expand the selection. By that I mean allow digital downloads but also produce the game on a disc. As of right now, I believe it's mostly done on older games, but I have to admit it's nice that if I want I can just pop in my credit card number and within an hour or two I can be playing a game without leaving the house. The issue this generation for most consoles is hard drive space, but yeah optional digital downloads would work.

The problem is, I can see the gaming companies wanting to eventually go to an all download format, mostly FOR the reasons Zero stated above. You cant trade it in (Kill the used game market, where the companies don't make any money), they can yank it from you or find ways to force you to pay more (maybe make you pay by the hour or something crazy), they don't have to pay to make and ship the disc, and also the retailers and other middlemen don't get any kind of cut so all the money goes to the game companies.

I don't actually think they would use digital content to cut off your access to the games you own, but honestly I didn't think I would see the days when the companies charged you extra to play online with games you bought used either, so what do I know?

I'm not actually as bitter or cynical towards game companies at it may seem. The whole "squeeze every penny out of the game/franchise" attitude that's started to arise from game companies has me a little worried though. Mostly it's because I find gaming to already be a hobby that's rough on my wallet.

I would love to see some new and creative IPs this next generation, as well as some sequels or remakes of a couple old games that were awesome but haven't aged well graphically.

I dunno if they still use it, but at one point UbiSoft was using a form of DRM that, if youi weren't connected to the Internet, your game wouldn't work. Take your laptop on vacation, wanna play the game but don't have an Internet connection? Too bad..your outta luck