The Star Wars Thread

[gunnar hendershow]

Saw it last night. A lot of thoughts that belong in spoilers but the absolute best part of this movie for me was that it didn't play it safe. I was shocked they let Rian Johnson do this, as I thought the risk-taking was gonna be reserved for his own trilogy. I wonder at what point in making this movie the Lucasfilm/Disney execs knew they had to let Johnson's vision for the Star Wars universe see more than one film. It will divide audiences, which is a good thing. It's disappointed a lot of long-time fans, which is a great thing. It's a giant middle finger to the nostalgic Star Wars fans, which the franchise needed. So many thoughts on that front, but I'll discuss plot points now.

 

First and foremost, above all else, Adam fuckin' Driver! The way he evolved the character of Kylo/Ben in this movie is amazing. I told people after TFA he was basically an angry kid cosplaying as Darth Vader, and his character would have him move beyond that. And move beyond that it did. Snoke tried to force him down a path, but instead he wants to forge his own path and with his immense power build a new world in his vision. It's the classic "almost right" motivation. Like he's so close to being a good guy, but instead he's the arch-villain who Rey will have a final showdown with in episode IX.

This movie also depicted the underbelly of war so well. The people who get rich off of it and live their lives isolated and in luxury. For Finn and Rose to go there and ruin their weekends was fun. The bit with Benicio del Toro's codebreaker character felt off. His performance was good, but he served as a backdrop to the rushed relationship between Finn and Rose. I get he's supposed to just be the in-it-for-himself type of character but he never really grabbed me. Opposite that for Laura Dern's Holdo who in her limited screentime turned tropes on their head and made her sacrifice evoke some level of emotional response.

Women ruled in this movie. Leia, Holdo, Rose, and Rey carried so much on their backs. Finn was going to run away. Poe lacked the pragmatism at times necessary to lead. Luke was broken and defeated. Meanwhile, Leia and Holdo guided the Resistance out of certain doom, Rose guided Finn back to the Resistance, and Rey's inner battle with who she is, and outer battle with a world that doesn't know who she is came to a really thrilling climax at the end. I think it's good they gave Leia such a prominent role here, in episode VII she felt on the periphery. But we saw a lot of her in this movie and it was all good. I know they were building towards something with her for episode IX that we will sadly never get to see, but her final lines in this movie were a hell of a way to go out.

The comedy was a little too on-the-nose at times. Hux being reduced to comic relief was strange as he is the one member of the First Order who seems to actually have a care in the world for actually winning this war. Snoke wanted to turn Rey and control both her and Kylo Ren to help him dominate the galaxy. Phasma cared more for revenge on Finn than anything else. Kylo Ren cared more for ending the Jedi and especially Luke Skywalker than anything that worked towards the First Order's victory. And through all that there's Hux just looking goofy. I guess the point is he's sided with the people who sided with Snoke and the dark side, so he's always going to be at their mercy but it was hard to take him seriously at times. They spent a little too much time on showcasing every possible goofy alien, but I would be guilty of doing the same thing if I made a Star Wars movie. Porgs were all we truly needed though, everything else was just extra.

Finally, the length. There were a lot of plot threads going on in the movie, and we bounced between them. I love that kind of storytelling. But I can't help but think there were 20 minutes that could have been shaved off. Make Rose and Finn's journey a little shorter, shave a scene or two off of the Resistance in-fighting, and maybe a little less focus on the goofy aliens. It's stuff I only noticed a few times, but certain scenes felt inconsequential.

Episode IX will play it safer I suspect, with all the heavy lifting done here. Rey will battle Kylo Ren, rebels throughout the galaxy will finally rise up against the entrenched, war-profiteers and the First Order, and the ragtag Resistance will finally build an enduring Republic. Lot to fit in there, but this movie built the characters all so well that the stakes in the finale have meaning. I have an early inkling the title will be some variation on the word "Order". Maybe "A New Order".

Plenty more thoughts to come I'm sure. Overall the fact that it's both divisive and people like me who loved it have their criticisms bode well for how enduring of a movie it'll wind up being.

[Mx. Canadian Destroyer]

Saw it yesterday afternoon. I really liked it.

Spoiler

I keep seeing people saying it's divisive. Why is that?

Let me preface that by saying that I was never a huge Star Wars fan as a kid. I didn't even see any of them until I was in university. I like all of them even if they are incredibly cheesy. 

Is the problem with this one that Luke comes off as sort of a bad guy? 

[gunnar hendershow]

7 minutes ago, Kevin "McD"allister said:

Saw it yesterday afternoon. I really liked it.

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I keep seeing people saying it's divisive. Why is that?

Let me preface that by saying that I was never a huge Star Wars fan as a kid. I didn't even see any of them until I was in university. I like all of them even if they are incredibly cheesy. 

Is the problem with this one that Luke comes off as sort of a bad guy? 

There are 2 parts to it being divisive. 1) A lot of big-time Star Wars nerds take too much ownership over it. If things don't go exactly how they want it's a problem, but also if things go exactly how they want it's too predictable. It's a weird dynamic, and a lot of them are being vocal. Doubly so for the more right-wing fans. 2) It's a huge thematic departure from Force Awakens and even at its darkest Empire Strikes Back doesn't strike the same emotions on the reality of war that this does. In many ways it's saying the entire war and conflict in the original trilogy was for naught because of the nature of war. To many this is saying "the original movies don't matter" but that's not really the case I don't think.

Luke's character arc is jarring. It's such a departure from the character we all thought we'd see, and Mark Hammil was apparently not a fan when he first read the script. I think for a lot of people this was too much to handle.

At the end of the day the arc for things like this usually bends towards being considered a classic. This is almost a 1:1 with the way Empire Strikes Back was received when it came out in 1980.

[Mx. Canadian Destroyer]

17 minutes ago, damshow said:

 

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There are 2 parts to it being divisive. 1) A lot of big-time Star Wars nerds take too much ownership over it. If things don't go exactly how they want it's a problem, but also if things go exactly how they want it's too predictable. It's a weird dynamic, and a lot of them are being vocal. Doubly so for the more right-wing fans. 2) It's a huge thematic departure from Force Awakens and even at its darkest Empire Strikes Back doesn't strike the same emotions on the reality of war that this does. In many ways it's saying the entire war and conflict in the original trilogy was for naught because of the nature of war. To many this is saying "the original movies don't matter" but that's not really the case I don't think.

Luke's character arc is jarring. It's such a departure from the character we all thought we'd see, and Mark Hammil was apparently not a fan when he first read the script. I think for a lot of people this was too much to handle.

At the end of the day the arc for things like this usually bends towards being considered a classic. This is almost a 1:1 with the way Empire Strikes Back was received when it came out in 1980.

 

Spoiler

Interesting. I am not invested in Star Wars so it being a change of pace doesn't bother me at all. The most intriguing moments for me were the shades of grey parts with Kylo and Luke.

I had heard it was divisive before I went. I love Rey so much and was terrified she was going to die. But I like what they did with her too, that her parents are nobodies. I thought it was a fun movie, even if most of its purpose is to build to the last movie. 

 

[Benjamin]

The Last Jedi was incredible. I liked Rogue One, I really, really liked the Force Awakens, I loved the Last Jedi.

Rey is such an amazing protagonist, she's so fucking human it's amazing. And the new characters Holdo and Rose just made me smile so much.

That was an amazing time at the cinema. I loved it.

[Mx. Canadian Destroyer]

I like Rose except for...

Spoiler

When she crashes into Finn and then gives her spiel about saving what you love. I liked that part, but her kissing him and then immediately passing out was silly. I think I legit groaned in the theatre. 

 

[GoGo Yubari]

I liked it a lot. My biggest criticisms would basically be that it was too long and indulged itself too many times when it came to "hey we had an idea for a new animal/alien species, check this out," but that's really not the end of the world. There were also a fair few moments where I was like "oh man, we didn't need a line there."

Spoiler

Predominantly in the final battle, when Finn and Poe especially are delivering these reaaaaaal unnecessary exposition lines.

But still, the shit that was good was incredibly good. Also some amazing visuals; the destruction of Snoke's ship, the row of Reys in that pit, and Luke's final moments on the cliff are up there with pretty much anything in the franchise for me.

also I feel like I shouldn't have liked the Porgs but the fact that they were essentially just dumb space pigeons killed me.

 

[Benjamin]

All the new space animals are amazing and exactly what I want in a space movie! The thing I hate most about space shows and films is how almost everyone is human or has human characteristics in some way. Humans are boring. Give me more ice cats and animals with super long snouts for no reason.

[GoGo Yubari]

I mean, I don't have a beef with aliens. Most of the aliens are great! In fact, one of them that I thought was just there for padding/merchandising turned out to be extremely plot-relevant in an awesome way. But some of the more egregious "this movie is real long and it could have been at least ten minutes shorter" things for me were bits where it's just "it's this thing but it's an alien!!!"

Spoiler

though if I wanted those gone entirely I'd have to get rid of the caretakers of the island Luke's on who all hate Rey and those were rad.

 

[TheSqauredCircleMessiah]

I legitimately think how prominent the Porgs were in the trailer versus how they actually used was a troll job. They know this fanbase treats Ewoks and JarJar and other cute things.

Spoiler

My absolute favorite part was the fact that Rey's parents were nobody and this story finally expanded beyond one family literally running the entire galaxy. Also, Kylo's complete irrationally when it came to wanting to destroy the Falcon and kill Luke. He wasn't trying to be a movie villian and be clever, he just wanted to destroy his father's ship (that he no doubt resented from birth) and kill his Uncle who tried to murder him in his sleep.

 

[gunnar hendershow]

2 hours ago, GoGo Yubari said:

I mean, I don't have a beef with aliens. Most of the aliens are great! In fact, one of them that I thought was just there for padding/merchandising turned out to be extremely plot-relevant in an awesome way. But some of the more egregious "this movie is real long and it could have been at least ten minutes shorter" things for me were bits where it's just "it's this thing but it's an alien!!!"

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though if I wanted those gone entirely I'd have to get rid of the caretakers of the island Luke's on who all hate Rey and those were rad.

 

When Rey knocked the rocks down on that guy's cart I lost it. And he just looked up. Those guys were the best.

And really, if someone gave me $200 million to make a sci-fi, let alone a Star Wars, movie I'd be devoting 98% of that to goofy aliens. So don't give me the ability to make a movie I guess.

[GoGo Yubari]

1 minute ago, damshow said:

 

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When Rey knocked the rocks down on that guy's cart I lost it. And he just looked up. Those guys were the best.

And really, if someone gave me $200 million to make a sci-fi, let alone a Star Wars, movie I'd be devoting 98% of that to goofy aliens. So don't give me the ability to make a movie I guess.

 

Spoiler

"I don't think they like me."

"I can't imagine why."

 

[Benjamin]

3 hours ago, TheSqauredCircleMessiah said:

I legitimately think how prominent the Porgs were in the trailer versus how they actually used was a troll job. They know this fanbase treats Ewoks and JarJar and other cute things.

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My absolute favorite part was the fact that Rey's parents were nobody and this story finally expanded beyond one family literally running the entire galaxy. Also, Kylo's complete irrationally when it came to wanting to destroy the Falcon and kill Luke. He wasn't trying to be a movie villian and be clever, he just wanted to destroy his father's ship (that he no doubt resented from birth) and kill his Uncle who tried to murder him in his sleep.

 

Spoiler

Oh my god, the part where Kylo gets so pissed at the Falcon and just wants to stop the war so he can destroy the ship that belonged to his dad was priceless. 

Also, no one has mentioned Phasma and her vendetta against Finn yet, but that is one of my favorite parts of the film as well. She just hates him so bloody much it's wonderful. And the final exchange between them was magic:

"Scum."

"Rebel scum."

That moment is vital because it's the real moment when Finn embraces being a part of the Resistance as a whole, and not just in it to help Finn and Rose and the rest of his friends.

 

[Ruki]

I loved everything about that movie. It may be my favorite Star Wars film. Rose is also a fantastic new character.

[EndOfAnEra]

On December 14, 2017 at 04:36, lanky316 said:

There is an odd feeling about it I got afterwards, I enjoyed it but it had niggles that I can't really put my finger on. When I've woken up a bit more I'll try and put it into words better but for now I'll stick with "good film, perhaps too cute at times for its own good".

They had waaaaaaay too many little quips and one liners and small giggles for me. I still liked the movie, but it was just too much.

One question I have about some minor characters

Spoiler

Did Kylo and Rey kill the Knights of Ren? Or were those just Imperial Guards?

Also one of that fight scene waaaaaaas

Spoiler

TERRIBLE. Kylo and Rey are fighting one guy, and there's the other guys just....spinning their weapons. Those guards really stood out for me. All of their movements were awful.

 

Edited December 17, 2017 by EndOfAnEra

[TheSqauredCircleMessiah]

Also, regarding a character who used the Force:

Spoiler

I just want a force ghost Obi Wan because I loved the way Ewan McGregor played that character in the prequels. When Yoda showed up and started giving Luke shit, I thought we were going to get other ghosts (Anakin, Obi Wan, etc) to also give him shit

 

Edited December 17, 2017 by TheSqauredCircleMessiah

[Hellraiser]

2 hours ago, EndOfAnEra said:

They had waaaaaaay too many little quips and one liners and small giggles for me. I still liked the movie, but it was just too much.

One question I have about some minor characters

  Reveal hidden contents

Did Kylo and Rey kill the Knights of Ren? Or were those just Imperial Guards?

Also one of that fight scene waaaaaaas

  Reveal hidden contents

TERRIBLE. Kylo and Rey are fighting one guy, and there's the other guys just....spinning their weapons. Those guards really stood out for me. All of their movements were awful.

 

Spoiler

I don't think that those guys were the Knights Of Ren. They are an updated version of Emperor Palpatine's Royal Guard who were also dressed in all red. http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Emperor's_Royal_Guard

The Knights Of Ren were one of many things from TFA that were swept under the rug because Rian Johnson seemingly didn't care about it. The movie as a whole feels like a giant middle finger to J.J. Abrams. I'm happy that Johnson won't be coming back for the final movie.

 

Edited December 17, 2017 by Hellraiser

[EndOfAnEra]

39 minutes ago, Hellraiser said:

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I don't think that those guys were the Knights Of Ren. They are an updated version of Emperor Palpatine's Royal Guard who were also dressed in all red. http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Emperor's_Royal_Guard

The Knights Of Ren were one of many things from TFA that were swept under the rug because Rian Johnson seemingly didn't care about it. The movie as a whole feels like a giant middle finger to J.J. Abrams. I'm happy that Johnson won't be coming back for the final movie.

 

It's possible we see it in the 3rd I guess? I'd like to see that explored.

[gunnar hendershow]

8 hours ago, EndOfAnEra said:

It's possible we see it in the 3rd I guess? I'd like to see that explored.

 

I think some stuff will get discussed in episode IX. JJ Abrams kind of oversees the whole trilogy as an executive producer, and with him coming back on as director I think more of the things he wants to clear up will get their time.

They did heavily hint that the Knights of Ren were the students who left Luke's temple with Kylo Ren, which is very good exposition without explicitly stating it. This movie had a ton of that subtle exposition, really only the final battle against the battering ram had overt classic Star Wars exposition. The rest let the viewer see as much as hear it.

[Mx. Canadian Destroyer]

10 hours ago, Hellraiser said:

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I don't think that those guys were the Knights Of Ren. They are an updated version of Emperor Palpatine's Royal Guard who were also dressed in all red. http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Emperor's_Royal_Guard

The Knights Of Ren were one of many things from TFA that were swept under the rug because Rian Johnson seemingly didn't care about it. The movie as a whole feels like a giant middle finger to J.J. Abrams. I'm happy that Johnson won't be coming back for the final movie.

 

Spoiler

So they were literal redshirts then.