Classic Cinema Discussion

[Hobo]

On 27/01/2023 at 21:59, Your Mom said:

The Third Man

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Don't know if I need to spoiler for 80 year old movies but I figured I'd play it safe. I really enjoy the twists and turns of these movies. They always keep me guessing. I have two complaints about this one though.

1. Could they only afford one song? I could be dumb here maybe but it felt like they played the same song over and over again and it was getting to me by the end.

2. I was a little disappointed by how Harry got caught by the police. Maybe he trusted his friend not to turn him in I guess? But it seemed like he was a smarter guy and he just kind of bumbled into their trap. I mean I'm glad he was caught but it seemed like maybe that was the wrong way to do it I guess

Anyway Orson Welles was great but I was feeling a bit underwhelmed with this one until he showed up. But from then on it turned into a good show

 

Classics watched this year:

1. 12 Angry Men (1957)
2. The Maltese Falcon
3. The Third Man

Spoiler

I'd have to re-watch it but I feel like Harry gets caught because of his friendship. I'd agree that Orson Welles really turns things up a notch. Although on my second watch, I noticed so much plotting that I didn't catch the first time.

The theme for The Third Man was actually quite a big hit in the day! But it really does get played a lot
 

 

 

On 27/01/2023 at 23:52, GhostMachine said:

I agree with you about preferring Double Indemnity. Incidentally, watch when Neff (Fred MacMurray) leaves Keyes' (Edward G. Robinson) office. The man reading the magazine is Raymond Chandler, making a cameo. Chandler and Billy Wilder wrote the script, but it was based on a novel by James M. Cain.

 

@Your Momif you liked The Third Man, then you really should watch The Stranger and Citizen Kane. *Maybe* Touch of Evil. Touch of Evil is regarded as one of Welles' best films, but I really think Charlton Heston was miscast in it. 

 

I'd say if you were to watch another Welles, I'd watch Touch of Evil (regardless of the fact that Charlton Heston is meant to be playing a Mexican which is VERY of the time casting but I don't think it really features into the plot much? He could literally be anything IIRC).  Or Citizen Kane. Possible The Lady From Shanghai.

I love The Stranger (a lot - and it's very relevant to modern day) but Touch of Evil is such a great movie. 

We ended up watching The Color of Money over the weekend. Which I did not know until we started watching it was, in fact, a sequel to The Hustler. I liked it. It's only the 2nd Scorese movie I've ever seen - which means I'm being introduced to Thelma Schoonmaker's editing (which is noticably great editing).  I always enjoy a movie shot by Michael Ballhaus (who shot a lot of RW Fassbinder's movies and also Bram Stoker's Dracula which is such fun, bonkers, film).

[GhostMachine]

17 hours ago, Your Mom said:

The Searchers

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Was an enjoyable enough movie but the ending was kinda bullshit. The last time they found the kidnapped girl she is like "These are my people now go away" and then when they find her again out of the blue she is super happy to be rescued. They give no reason for this. It just happens because it's the end of the movie.

Also John Wayne is all about putting a bullet in her head because she is a "Comanche" now but then he tracks her down and just says "Let's go home" and they hug and go home. Like what?!?

Plus there is all this weirdly placed comedic stuff. Like a slapstick fight at the wedding and the Captain gets stabbed in the butt on accident. Then there is the guy who I guess is trying to do an accent but sounds like a cartoon character. How did this influence Scorsese and a bunch of other greats? I don't get it man.

Classics watched this year:

1. 12 Angry Men (1957)
2. The Maltese Falcon
3. The Third Man
4. The Searchers

John Ford is my all-time favorite director, but The Searchers is his most overrated movie. 

For Ford, I have a LOT of recommendations. Just expect to see John Wayne, Henry Fonda and Ward Bond a lot. The ones that are italicized, he won Best Director for:

Young Mr. Lincoln 

The Grapes Of Wrath

How Green Was My Valley

Fort Apache, She Wore A Yellow Ribbon, and Rio Grande - aka The Cavalry Trilogy. Fort Apache has Wayne, Fonda AND Bond in it. John Wayne plays the same character in the first and third movie, but a different one in the second. 

The Quiet Man - My favorite non-Western John Wayne movie, actually.

Mister Roberts - Incredible cast.

The Wings Of Eagles - Bio-pic, and Ward Bond plays a character named "John Dodge" that is a renamed John Ford!

The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance

Watch these after the ones above:

My Darling Clementine

Sergeant Rutledge

3 Godfathers

 

There's a sequel to Mister Roberts called Ensign Pulver, but its not directed by Ford, and has a different actor playing Pulver. Jack Lemmon plays him in Mister Roberts, but Robert Walker Jr plays him in Ensign Pulver. I do suggest watching the sequel, anyway, because it has a very good cast.

 

 

 

Edited January 30, 2023 by GhostMachine

[Skummy]

On 27/01/2023 at 19:42, GoGo Yubari said:

EDIT: Another great "here's a guy you've seen without ever seeing" guy in that movie is Sydney Greenstreet, who plays Kaspar Gutman. He's basically the visual reference/inspiration for the Kingpin.

He was also the inspiration for Jabba The Hutt!

[Dan B.]

If we're talking classic westerns, one of my very favorites is the original 1957 version of 3:10 to Yuma with Glenn Ford and Van Heflin.  Much of it plays out as a morality play/chamber drama with no easy answers as to the right way out of his situation for Heflin's character.

Your mileage may vary of course - it actually has generally decent reviews, though I though it was awful - but I wouldn't bother with the 2007 remake (w/Christian Bale & Russell Crowe).  I thought it seemed like they wanted to turn it into an action movie, when the original, a scene or two notwistanding, wasn't a guns-blazing action western at all - and (attempting not to spoil either version) didn't really bother to explain Crowe's character's action at the end like the original did for Ford's interpretation.  It is very possible that I'd have a better opinion of the 2007 version if the 1957 version had never existed.

Also regarding westerns, it might be a little too recent for a "classic cinema" thread, but I'll throw in a recommendation for Jim Jarmusch's Dead Man (1995) as it's usually described as an "acid western" and also happens to be my #1 favorite film of all time.  It's out there and definitely not for everybody, but I love everything about it.  As many times as I've seen it I still find rewatches rewarding as there's always something I didn't notice before, or some new angle of something in it to think about.

[GhostMachine]

20 minutes ago, Dan B. said:

If we're talking classic westerns, one of my very favorites is the original 1957 version of 3:10 to Yuma with Glenn Ford and Van Heflin.  Much of it plays out as a morality play/chamber drama with no easy answers as to the right way out of his situation for Heflin's character.

Your mileage may vary of course - it actually has generally decent reviews, though I though it was awful - but I wouldn't bother with the 2007 remake (w/Christian Bale & Russell Crowe).  I thought it seemed like they wanted to turn it into an action movie, when the original, a scene or two notwistanding, wasn't a guns-blazing action western at all - and (attempting not to spoil either version) didn't really bother to explain Crowe's character's action at the end like the original did for Ford's interpretation.  It is very possible that I'd have a better opinion of the 2007 version if the 1957 version had never existed.

Also regarding westerns, it might be a little too recent for a "classic cinema" thread, but I'll throw in a recommendation for Jim Jarmusch's Dead Man (1995) as it's usually described as an "acid western" and also happens to be my #1 favorite film of all time.  It's out there and definitely not for everybody, but I love everything about it.  As many times as I've seen it I still find rewatches rewarding as there's always something I didn't notice before, or some new angle of something in it to think about.

The original version of 3:10 to Yuma is a classic. For Glenn Ford, I must recommend The Fastest Gun Alive and Jubal, which he made prior to 3:10 to Yuma. The Fastest Gun Alive is nowhere near a typical gunfighter movie, and its one of my absolute favorite Glenn Ford films. And those 3 films are the only Westerns of my list of favorite Glenn Ford films.

I'm not big on the 3:10 to Yuma remake, and I've never seen Dead Man.

One classic film I'll recommend out of the blue is The Baron of Arizona, starring Vincent Price. Its pretty entertaining, and based on a true story. Price really doesn't get enough appreciation for his non-horror roles.

 

 

[Jimmy]

On 22/01/2023 at 23:04, damhausen said:

Are you telling me a list with Jeanne Dielman at number 1 might not be the most accessible to people?

This is one of my favourite movies of all-time, but it is kinda fun that it's the number 1, because for the people who thought Citizen Kane was boring, wait until they sit down to watch this. I think it's a masterpiece, but wouldn't begrudge anyone who thinks its not for them. 

I've been working through the blindspots in that Sight and Sound List, I've got 14 left to go, most of which are the really long stuff like Shoah and Satantango. 

On 29/01/2023 at 21:30, Your Mom said:

The Searchers

  Reveal hidden contents

Was an enjoyable enough movie but the ending was kinda bullshit. The last time they found the kidnapped girl she is like "These are my people now go away" and then when they find her again out of the blue she is super happy to be rescued. They give no reason for this. It just happens because it's the end of the movie.

Also John Wayne is all about putting a bullet in her head because she is a "Comanche" now but then he tracks her down and just says "Let's go home" and they hug and go home. Like what?!?

Plus there is all this weirdly placed comedic stuff. Like a slapstick fight at the wedding and the Captain gets stabbed in the butt on accident. Then there is the guy who I guess is trying to do an accent but sounds like a cartoon character. How did this influence Scorsese and a bunch of other greats? I don't get it man.

Classics watched this year:

1. 12 Angry Men (1957)
2. The Maltese Falcon
3. The Third Man
4. The Searchers

Looks like you're on track for ticking off some great movies - I'd defo just keep picking and choosing and would be more than happy to recommend some stuff based on what you're vibing with. 

I personally don't think you can go wrong with Billy Wilder, he has an insanely good run of American Classics. The Apartment is probably my favourite film of all time, but Some Like It Hot, Double Indemnity, Sunset Bvd, The Lost Weekend, Ace in the Hole and a bunch of others are all really great. 

Also, as something slightly different, I absolutely love Douglas Sirk's 50's melodramas - All That Heaven Allows, Written on the Wind, Magnificent Obsession and Imitation of Life are all brilliant critiques of America, packed full of subtexts, hidden under the guise of melodramas / soap opera. 

Edited February 2, 2023 by Jimmy

[gunnar hendershow]

Is that our first mention of Billy Wilder? He had a spectacular run and succeeded in multiple genres. Sunset Boulevard is a film I absolutely revere.

[GhostMachine]

I'm surprised he hasn't been mentioned before. And Sunset Boulevard is a definitely must-see.

14 hours ago, Jimmy said:

This is one of my favourite movies of all-time, but it is kinda fun that it's the number 1, because for the people who thought Citizen Kane was boring, wait until they sit down to watch this. I think it's a masterpiece, but wouldn't begrudge anyone who thinks its not for them. 

I've been working through the blindspots in that Sight and Sound List, I've got 14 left to go, most of which are the really long stuff like Shoah and Satantango. 

Looks like you're on track for ticking off some great movies - I'd defo just keep picking and choosing and would be more than happy to recommend some stuff based on what you're vibing with. 

I personally don't think you can go wrong with Billy Wilder, he has an insanely good run of American Classics. The Apartment is probably my favourite film of all time, but Some Like It Hot, Double Indemnity, Sunset Bvd, The Lost Weekend, Ace in the Hole and a bunch of others are all really great. 

Also, as something slightly different, I absolutely love Douglas Sirk's 50's melodramas - All That Heaven Allows, Written on the Wind, Magnificent Obsession and Imitation of Life are all brilliant critiques of America, packed full of subtexts, hidden under the guise of melodramas / soap opera. 

I'll second the recommendation for all of those, and add Detective Story and The List Of Adrian Messenger, as far as Kirk Douglas goes.

Billy Wilder directed Sabrina, which I already recommended for Humphrey Bogart movies. 

[Jimmy]

I could keep going with Wilder - Stalag 17,  One Two Three, Fedora, The Private Life of Sherlock Holmes and Kiss Me, Stupid are all really good films too. 

I think William Wyler is another one of Hollywood's best that's worth digging into, the way he uses the camera and gets the best out of his actors is stunning - The Best Years of Our Lives, The Heiress, Roman Holiday, The Little Foxes, Dodsworth and The Letter are all great. I think Bette Davis, who he worked on The Letter and The Little Foxes, called him the best of all time and he won two Best Directing Oscars. 

[Naitch]

On 30/01/2023 at 15:19, GhostMachine said:

The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance

Echoing support for this one.

[DFF]

23 hours ago, Jimmy said:

This is one of my favourite movies of all-time, but it is kinda fun that it's the number 1, because for the people who thought Citizen Kane was boring, wait until they sit down to watch this. I think it's a masterpiece, but wouldn't begrudge anyone who thinks its not for them. 

I've been working through the blindspots in that Sight and Sound List, I've got 14 left to go, most of which are the really long stuff like Shoah and Satantango. 

Looks like you're on track for ticking off some great movies - I'd defo just keep picking and choosing and would be more than happy to recommend some stuff based on what you're vibing with. 

I personally don't think you can go wrong with Billy Wilder, he has an insanely good run of American Classics. The Apartment is probably my favourite film of all time, but Some Like It Hot, Double Indemnity, Sunset Bvd, The Lost Weekend, Ace in the Hole and a bunch of others are all really great. 

Also, as something slightly different, I absolutely love Douglas Sirk's 50's melodramas - All That Heaven Allows, Written on the Wind, Magnificent Obsession and Imitation of Life are all brilliant critiques of America, packed full of subtexts, hidden under the guise of melodramas / soap opera. 

MUBI has Satantango if you're interested. I've heard its really good, but an exceptional slog at its 7 hour run time. 

[Jimmy]

19 minutes ago, DFF said:

MUBI has Satantango if you're interested. I've heard its really good, but an exceptional slog at its 7 hour run time. 

Ha yeah, I nearly went to see in the cinema before I got ill, but I haven't been in the best headspace for the last 6 months. Definitely eyeing it up as I feel more like myself. 

[Hobo]

 

23 hours ago, Jimmy said:

This is one of my favourite movies of all-time, but it is kinda fun that it's the number 1, because for the people who thought Citizen Kane was boring, wait until they sit down to watch this. I think it's a masterpiece, but wouldn't begrudge anyone who thinks its not for them.

I'd no idea that Jeanne Dielman was such a long movie until about a week ago. I want to watch it Jeanne Dielman but I dunno if I'll be able to do it in a single sitting ngl

I remember when I first sat down several years ago and actually watched Citizen Kane.  I was just utterly shocked at how much it feels like a modern movie.

I've only just realized that I have actually seen a couple of Billy Wilder movies (The Seven Year Itch and Some Like It Hot) but I've had Sunset Boulevard on my list for a while too - honestly because of Twin Peaks and David Lynch.

Similar with Douglas Sirk, I've heard a lot about his fims, but I've not seen any. As I've said earlier in the thread I really like Fear Eats The Soul and I know that is remake of sorts of All That Heaven Allows.

 

On 30/01/2023 at 15:19, GhostMachine said:

The Quiet Man - My favorite non-Western John Wayne movie, actually..

I've actually been to Cong in Mayo where The Quiet Man was filmed. I barely remember the experience because it probably 25+ years ago at this point but I think they had a house from the film preserved as a visitor attraction. I don't know if I've actually seen the movie. I do recoil quite strongly from movies set in Ireland an

I think in terms of John Wayne, I liked The Shootist (his last movie). Which I really only watched because it also features a young Ron Howard. Mostly I'm kinda meh on him.

Speaking of Westerns though - when David Warner died we watched The Ballad of Cable Hogue for our movie night. I enjoyed that quite a bit. 

[gunnar hendershow]

1 hour ago, Hobo said:

I've only just realized that I have actually seen a couple of Billy Wilder movies (The Seven Year Itch and Some Like It Hot) but I've had Sunset Boulevard on my list for a while too - honestly because of Twin Peaks and David Lynch.

If I were making a list Sunset Boulevard would be slightly behind Wizard of Oz and 8 1/2 with films I've recognized permeating the most through Lynch's catalogue.

Of course there are dozens I haven't seen that I've been told are even bigger influences.

[Jimmy]

2 hours ago, Hobo said:

 

I'd no idea that Jeanne Dielman was such a long movie until about a week ago. I want to watch it Jeanne Dielman but I dunno if I'll be able to do it in a single sitting ngl

I remember when I first sat down several years ago and actually watched Citizen Kane.  I was just utterly shocked at how much it feels like a modern movie.

I've only just realized that I have actually seen a couple of Billy Wilder movies (The Seven Year Itch and Some Like It Hot) but I've had Sunset Boulevard on my list for a while too - honestly because of Twin Peaks and David Lynch.

Similar with Douglas Sirk, I've heard a lot about his fims, but I've not seen any. As I've said earlier in the thread I really like Fear Eats The Soul and I know that is remake of sorts of All That Heaven Allows.

 

I've actually been to Cong in Mayo where The Quiet Man was filmed. I barely remember the experience because it probably 25+ years ago at this point but I think they had a house from the film preserved as a visitor attraction. I don't know if I've actually seen the movie. I do recoil quite strongly from movies set in Ireland an

I think in terms of John Wayne, I liked The Shootist (his last movie). Which I really only watched because it also features a young Ron Howard. Mostly I'm kinda meh on him.

Speaking of Westerns though - when David Warner died we watched The Ballad of Cable Hogue for our movie night. I enjoyed that quite a bit. 

Which Todd Haynes also re-made as Far From Heaven, which is also incredible.

[Hobo]

40 minutes ago, damhausen said:

If I were making a list Sunset Boulevard would be slightly behind Wizard of Oz and 8 1/2 with films I've recognized permeating the most through Lynch's catalogue.

Of course there are dozens I haven't seen that I've been told are even bigger influences.

yeah, the Wizard of Oz is a big one with him. There is even a new documentary about David Lynch and the Wizard of Oz.

Lynch/Frost took the name of Lynch's FBI director character Gordon Cole from Sunset Boulevard and a scene from the movie is played in Twin Peaks: The Return.  Coincidentally, in The Hustler,  Piper Laurie plays a character called Sarah Packard. Laurie later went on to play Catherine Martell (nee Packard) in Twin Peaks. I dunno if that was a direct reference to The Hustler or not.

[gunnar hendershow]

Yeah the Gordon Cole thing is great, bringing it all full circle in The Return was honestly one of the more emotionally powerful moments in a production with many of them.

[Mx. Canadian Destroyer]

On 23/01/2023 at 11:22, Mx. Canadian Destroyer said:

I am doing the Criterion Challenge this year. Have watched three movies so far.

Random Number Generator Selected - Onibaba (1964) - This was amazing. Two women living in a swamp who trap and kill soldiers leaving a civil war to make money. Things go awry when one of the women's son-in-law returns. 

Made in Beligum - Rosetta (1999) - Also liked this one. Centered on a young girl who does what she needs to to get by. 

Made in Taiwan - A Brighter Summer Day (1991) - A long one coming in at just under 4 hours but a really good story about a time period I wasn't super familiar with. Si'r gets mixed up in street gangs and a woman that leads to him struggling. 

Really enjoying this challenge so far as all three are films I would have never watched and all really enjoyed.

Continuing with the Criterion Collection.

Made in Canada - The Daytrippers (1996) - loved this. Full of some fun names - Stanley Tucci, Parker Posey, Liev Schreiber. 

Made in Portugal - Ossos (1997) - a little slow but interesting nevertheless. The film is part film/part documentary. 

[GoGo Yubari]

16 hours ago, damhausen said:

Is that our first mention of Billy Wilder? He had a spectacular run and succeeded in multiple genres. Sunset Boulevard is a film I absolutely revere.

I was supposed to see it for the first time at the Alamo Drafthouse in LA last month and when I got there the building was closed due to a plumbing issue and it was the low point of the whole weekend. Feel very deadset on seeing that one in a theater setting.

[gunnar hendershow]

8 minutes ago, GoGo Yubari said:

I was supposed to see it for the first time at the Alamo Drafthouse in LA last month and when I got there the building was closed due to a plumbing issue and it was the low point of the whole weekend. Feel very deadset on seeing that one in a theater setting.

Yeah, there's a number of holes in my "classic cinema" repertoire that I just don't want to see for the first time anywhere but in a theater.