Bands you like...

[Liam]

I'll also argue that Deftones were more important then Korn, as were Faith No More, but thats my opinion.

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And I'll also argue that KoRn popularized the sound and made it the mainstream. Once again, I wasn't talking about originators; KoRn was the band that took that sound and made it the norm for mid-late 90s hard rock acts. Whether or not you like KoRn is irrelevant, they were the staple of what the genre sounded like during that time period. I appreciate Faith No More and Deftones, but combine their record sales and it still won't equal KoRn's. They made that sound the mainstream, I'm not saying that's a good or a bad thing, that's just the way it was.

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Ok, fair enough. I slightly missed where you were going with it for a second, but now see what you mean.

It's kinda sad that thier first album was awesome, and the rest just were one small let down after another, at least relative to the first album.

[zero]

It's kinda sad that thier first album was awesome, and the rest just were one small let down after another, at least relative to the first album.

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Agreed to an extent... I thought Issues was highly underrated, probably their second or third best album. And Take a Look in the Mirror was a step in the right direction. I think Follow the Leader is incredibly overrated though and Untouchables was horrendous.

[Liam]

It's kinda sad that thier first album was awesome, and the rest just were one small let down after another, at least relative to the first album.

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Agreed to an extent... I thought Issues was highly underrated, probably their second or third best album. And Take a Look in the Mirror was a step in the right direction. I think Follow the Leader is incredibly overrated though and Untouchables was horrendous.

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Yeah, Take A Look In The Mirror was a step in the right direction, but that was after the (well put) horrendous Untouchables album. Anything pretty much would have been better then that, but it still wasn't really a return to form like thier earlier stuff.

[zero]

I personally think KoRn ran into two problems. One, that first album was just so raw, it just sounded like these guys rocking out in a garage with this really unique sound. Life is Peachy, you could tell the budget got upped a little bit, and with Follow the Leader they were full blown mainstream. It's funny to look back on the Summer of 98 when Follow the Leader was about to come out, I didn't realize it then, but KoRn was getting packaged for a thrust into the mainstream. I'd never seen a KoRn video on MTV except at 4am and literally no radio airplay, then all the sudden, MTV was talking about them like they'd been around forever. Then Got the Life is the first single and it's all over MTV and all over radio. And of course the album was well produced and that raw sound was completely gone. Nonetheless, it was still KoRn sounding different from just about everything else, but that was the beginning of the downward spiral. And problem number 2? I think KoRn realized they were being sold like a trinket and that's why Issues was such a different album from FTL because they didn't want to become a parody of themselves. Unfortunately, the mainstream audiences don't like change and their popularity started to fade a bit. So from there, we go to Untouchables, and again it's KoRn fucking around I think at that point trying to please both their hardcore longtime fans and mainstream audiences, and that went over about as well as sex in church. And I think Take a Look in the Mirror was just KoRn's way of saying fuck you to the music industry. It's not great, but like we just agreed on, it's the right step they needed to take.

[Liam]

I think Korn have also been held back by having an influential sound, as too many bands try and copy it, and that has a knock on effect of how "wowing" Korns music is. Hey, if zillion other bands are doing it, it's not too special, right?

Thats why I always valued the Deftones more, as they were influential, but seemingly, thier sound wasn't as easily "ripped-off" as Korn, as there are way fewer Deftones clones. Thats what makes Deftones sound more unique, as there are less people trying to follow them exactly, unlike Korn.

PS I also dislike Jon Davis, but again, thats neither here nor there.

[zero]

Yeah, I agree that bands ripping them off had an effect on their image as time went on. I dig the Deftones too, I haven't been too into their newer stuff, but it's still better than half the shit out there now.

What's with the Jon Davis hate? Fieldy bugs the shit out of me cause he seems like a huge cock, but Davis has always seemed really cool especially to the fans.

And not to get too off topic, couple more bands who have been getting a lot of hate lately that I tend to dig:

Slipknot - yeah, they have a hardcore fanbase, but they're not a mega-selling act

Disturbed - Another band with just a small, hardcore following. Still, I hesitated to list them at first because their fanbase is so hardcore. Go to a Disturbed show and look at all the people that have Disturbed tattoos, it's insane.

[ROC]

What's with the Jon Davis hate?  Fieldy bugs the shit out of me cause he seems like a huge cock, but Davis has always seemed really cool especially to the fans.

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[Evil Chase K]

I hate Korn. I hate their mechanical bass sound. I hate Jonathan Davis' voice. I hate everything about that band.

[tristy]

What's with the Jon Davis hate?  Fieldy bugs the shit out of me cause he seems like a huge cock, but Davis has always seemed really cool especially to the fans.

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Clearly they don't like him for supplying the soundtrack to that sucky vampire movie Queen of the Damned.

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[ROC]

What's with the Jon Davis hate?  Fieldy bugs the shit out of me cause he seems like a huge cock, but Davis has always seemed really cool especially to the fans.

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Clearly they don't like him for supplying the soundtrack to that sucky vampire movie Queen of the Damned.

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[tristy]

I've never seen the movie. Always wanted to though.

[zero]

I've never seen the movie. Always wanted to though.

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Keep it that way. At least wanting to see it you have this happy feeling of anticipation and excitement. The minute you see the movie, you'll feel like you wasted any second of your life spent thinking about seeing it.

[ROC]

Keep it that way.  At least wanting to see it you have this happy feeling of anticipation and excitement.  The minute you see the movie, you'll feel like you wasted any second of your life spent thinking about seeing it.

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[Liam]

The Queen Of The Damned movie was shite, utter shite. The OST was not bad though, and some good songs were written.

I dislike Jon Davis not because of his lyrics, but the fact that no matter where you read, hear, or see him, I think he just comes across as a prick. That's all really...

[Guest George]

Let's see....

Puddle Of Mudd - They are amazingly simple. They rarely have riffs on their songs, or solos. Sure, some of them do, but the solo is way too simple... However, I saw their debut video "Control" and I fell in love with them. I don't know why, everybody seems to bash them, and I understand why, but it's y guilty pleasure.

Primus - Mostly negatively critiziced(sp) by morons. They get bashed because of the voice, but they are still amazing instrumentally... and I like Claypool's voice.

Nirvana - Seems like a fad to hate them. Great group. Good voice, guitar work is greatly coordinated with the voice, nice bassist, great drummer, what's not to love? The lyrics? Meh.

[Evil Chase K]

Primus - Mostly negatively critiziced(sp) by morons. They get bashed because of the voice, but they are still amazing instrumentally... and I like Claypool's voice.

Nirvana - Seems like a fad to hate them. Great group. Good voice, guitar work is greatly coordinated with the voice, nice bassist, great drummer, what's not to love? The lyrics? Meh.

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[Liam]

Primus - Mostly negatively critiziced(sp) by morons. They get bashed because of the voice, but they are still amazing instrumentally... and I like Claypool's voice.

Nirvana - Seems like a fad to hate them. Great group. Good voice, guitar work is greatly coordinated with the voice, nice bassist, great drummer, what's not to love? The lyrics? Meh.

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While I agree completely with Primus.

I feel like Kurt Cobain and Nirvana ruined music. It's because of them that people who are not good guitar players can be successful. In the 80's even the hair metal and glam bands had guys who were extremely talented. Now any asswad can be in a big band. Talent was thrown out the window for "I hate myself" lyrics and simple downtuned guitars. And I believe it was Nirvana's Kurt Cobain who really got this trend rolling.

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I'm a massive Nirvana fan, but I can see what you are saying. But the thing with Nirvana is that it was always about the sum of the parts being greater then the individuals. None of them were the most talented people with thier voice/instrument, but the music just came together, and is still as fresh now as it was then, whilst a lot of glam rock and such sounds pretty dated.

Also, a lot of punk bands before Nirvana had little talent really (The Ramones, The Sex Pistols), yet were still putting out great music, so Nirvana weren't the first band with "little talent" to do music, and do music well.

I think it's a little harsh to blame the trend for crappy bands on Nirvana, but again, I can see where you are coming. Nirvana opened the doors for lots of bands, not all of them good, but it technically isn't Nirvana's fault that the people who decided to use the Nirvana sound weren't good.

I also prefer any band nowadays that may have ripped off the Nirvana "sound" to pretty much any pop-punk bands, but thats just my personal preference.

[fineintent]

I dunno rvd, Dave Grohl is/was a pretty fucking decent drummer.

And on the Nirvana thing, I don't think they're particularly untalented - just because a song is easy to play doesn't make it bad, Cobain was a decent songwriter and, as the unplugged set shows, had a nice voice. And as for the "I Hate Myself" lyrics, I don't think Nirvana were that self debricating, a lot was sung in jest and with great irony. Lyrically, Cobain has/had far more substance than a Hetfield or Brett Michaels, his songs are filled with emotions rather than writing about fantastical tales, murder, suicide, death in general and fucking groupies.

As for the comment about hair metal bands, you can tap all you want, but it will never make the music good. Bands like Motley Crue and Poison should be shot for being so fucking awful, solos do not a good song make. The music goes nowhere and is, by and large, by the numbers.

[Liam]

I dunno rvd, Dave Grohl is/was a pretty fucking decent drummer.

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Yeah, I know Grohl became it (he's one of my favourite people in rock at the moment), but when they started out, he was nothing special really. And his drumming isn't overly special, he's just good at it (sounds like I contradicted myself, but I know what I mean.....example, there are better and faster drummers out there, but Grohl knows what to do with the drums, for song purposes, a lot better then the drummers who mindlessly hammer at the drums.......if you get what I mean)

Edited January 29, 2005 by rvdwannabe

[zero]

Nirvana gets overbashed on the internet for being simple, but they're still far more complex than 90% of mainstream rock right now. And really, that sound isn't really even around anymore; I got sick of the whole 'grunge' sound, but I wish it would come back so I don't have to listen to this shit we're stuck with now.