2005 MLB Thread

[JStarr]

Anybody who'd been a closer his entire career and then thrust into the rotation would have a serious problem pacing himself, I think. Like oldskool said, everything could be heaved as hard as the pitcher could get it, and it might take time to change that mentality, especially if the guy tenses up with runners on base or something. A starter going to the closer's role might have a hard time with the late-game pressure, but as far as the workload, he may very well feel like he's on vacation...unless he has a hard time pitching every second or third day instead of every fifth.

I don't think Smoltz will have all that much problem, as many years as he spent in the rotation.

[Lowerdeck]

I remember Derek Lowe and Tim Wakefield both spent a year or two as closers, then came back to being starters.

[oldskool]

To be fair, Wakefield's a knuckleballer, so he wasn't exactly blowing people away with mind-numbing stuff. Neither one was that good as a closer, IIRC...but Smoltz was shut-down, much like Gagne is (and he used to be a starter).

Will we be seeing more of these Smoltz and Gagne-type conversions of the older/ineffective starting pitchers to the bullpen?

[sahyder1]

Will we be seeing more of these Smoltz and Gagne-type conversions of the older/ineffective starting pitchers to the bullpen?

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[thatshortguy]

Will we be seeing more of these Smoltz and Gagne-type conversions of the older/ineffective starting pitchers to the bullpen?

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I think we're already seeing a ton of conversions -- definately moreso than the seven, maybe even just five years ago. Gagne, Lowe, Smoltz, Wakefield and countless others have followed Eck's lead and headed to the bullpen (although most return to the rotation if they're able to regain their previous form...that's more a statement concerning the lack of starters in the leagues).

Pedro would make an absolutely badass closer, but his ego would never allow it. For Pedro, it's gotta be either nine innings of shutout baseball or nothing.

[Lowerdeck]

Of course Pedro can't go one inning of shutout baseball anymore. He gives up too many in the first inning, then again with the BP session by the 7th inning.

Plus I believe Wakefield had 40 saves the year he was a closer.

[JStarr]

Pedro would make an absolutely badass closer, but his ego would never allow it.  For Pedro, it's gotta be either nine innings of shutout baseball or nothing.

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As far as I've always been concerned, being the closer would seem like more of the ego boost than starting. Knowing that you're the guy that gets called if the team is in dire straits and needs to deliver the death blow to the hated opponent...yeah.

The closer is the ultimate baseball superhero, the Batman of baseball if ya weeeeeeeellllllllllll. [/Dusty]

[Underage Politician]

Plus I believe Wakefield had 40 saves the year he was a closer.

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He has 22 career saves. The most was 15 in 1999. Has three in '01 and '02, and one in '03.

[Guest Brady_3for3]

Will we be seeing more of these Smoltz and Gagne-type conversions of the older/ineffective starting pitchers to the bullpen?

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I think we're already seeing a ton of conversions -- definately moreso than the seven, maybe even just five years ago. Gagne, Lowe, Smoltz, Wakefield and countless others have followed Eck's lead and headed to the bullpen (although most return to the rotation if they're able to regain their previous form...that's more a statement concerning the lack of starters in the leagues).

Pedro would make an absolutely badass closer, but his ego would never allow it. For Pedro, it's gotta be either nine innings of shutout baseball or nothing.

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[thuganomic]

No DH favors pitchers.....

[sahyder1]

Brady_3for3 is an idiot. No idea how he's still around....didn't someone say he was a double account? How old are you? It doesn't take that much to figure out that with the pitchers batting......things are easier for the opposing pitchers. Not to mention more small ball. Generally they say that your ERA drops by .5 when you jump to the NL from the AL. That's a pretty significant #.

[Guest Flawless Cowboy]

I don't get why people keep on shitting on Pedro, like he's completely ineffectual as a pitcher. sure a 16-9 3.90 ERA isn't exactly Cy Young material, his ERA was still almost a full ERA point under the AL League ERA (4.87). I stilly say he's a quality starter.

Also, someone asked about Derek Lowe and Tim Wakfields roles in the bullpen. Lowe wasn't that bad of a closer at all, usually posted a sub 3.00 ERA when he was in the bullpen. Broke 40 saves the one time he was Bostons main closer. He originally started out as a long reliever, posting a few 100 IP seasons. After that they phased him into the starting rotation I guess, I'm not a big Boston fan so I'm not sure.

As for Wakefield, he actually started out as a starter, but except for one year (1995), he turned to crap quite quickly, and then was used as a long reliever and a spot starter from 199-2002, improved a bit, than put back in the rotation. He was never really anything above an average pitcher, though 2002 was a good year for him which I assume is the reason who was put back into the rotation.

[Lowerdeck]

Plus I believe Wakefield had 40 saves the year he was a closer.

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He has 22 career saves. The most was 15 in 1999. Has three in '01 and '02, and one in '03.

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OK, so that was Derek Lowe then.

[Guest Brady_3for3]

You know why no DH hurts the pitchers, they are more apt to get lifted for pinch hitters in key situations where the team needs offense. In the American League, with the DH, pitchers cannot get pinch hit for and thus, stay in games longer. It is real simple

[sahyder1]

You know why no DH hurts the pitchers, they are more apt to get lifted for pinch hitters in key situations where the team needs offense.  In the American League, with the DH, pitchers cannot get pinch hit for and thus, stay in games longer.  It is real simple

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[thuganomic]

I don't get why people keep on shitting on Pedro, like he's completely ineffectual as a pitcher. sure a 16-9 3.90 ERA isn't exactly Cy Young material, his ERA was still almost a full ERA point under the AL League ERA (4.87). I stilly say he's a quality starter.

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[Underage Politician]

You know why no DH hurts the pitchers, they are more apt to get lifted for pinch hitters in key situations where the team needs offense.  In the American League, with the DH, pitchers cannot get pinch hit for and thus, stay in games longer.  It is real simple

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DH adds another quality hitter to face. In my opinion, that makes it alot harder for the pitcher rather than pinch hit opportunities later in the game.

Just to play devils advocate in the Pedro thing:

Pedro had a shitty year last year, but look at his stats for the previous years. He'd been so consistant up until '04. Probably preasure of being in his contract year... that's the only explanation I can think of, although he threw fantasticly for the Expos in '97. This is the first time his ERA has been over 3.00 since 1996. He's also a "name" player who'll generate revenue and hype... if he performs like he can he'll not only help them win games, he'll bring in a huge amount of money. Of course he's still going to have a huge salary. The years may be a worry, but the guy's only 32. One bad year doesn't kill your salary, just like one good year shouldn't shoot it way up.

If he throws poorly this year too bad for the Mets. I don't think he will, but I won't be losing any sleep if he does. I don't like the guy and I sure as hell don't like the Mets. Clemens has had a bunch of shitty seasons, but he's still one of the best pitchers in baseball. The good ballplayers bounce back.

Edited March 3, 2005 by Underage Politician

[Guest Flawless Cowboy]

I don't get why people keep on shitting on Pedro, like he's completely ineffectual as a pitcher. sure a 16-9 3.90 ERA isn't exactly Cy Young material, his ERA was still almost a full ERA point under the AL League ERA (4.87). I stilly say he's a quality starter.

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That much money for a quality starter, huh?

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Edited March 3, 2005 by Flawless Cowboy

[DMN in the House]

I'd just like to say that you will be seeing a repeat of your NL West CHAMPIONS... the Los Angeles Dodgers.

I hope...

[Maxx]

You aren't the only one