The Mafia Discussion Thread

[Josh]

A few thoughts occurred to me during this last game, and I can finally talk about them now it's done.

- First, exactly that: I hate it when people talk about a game in progress in here, whether they're part of the game or not. It can influence players to make decisions they wouldn't have otherwise.

- When a player asks a question of someone else, don't answer it for them. If they're scum, you've just provided an out for them, whereas they could slip up if you let them speak for their self.

- I really hate the dependency on claiming for town wins. It didn't bother me THAT much in Fargo, but it often keeps people from watching for scummy behavior and inconsistent play. Plus, claims write the scum's hit list for them. I'd especially love to see more games where the mod fucks with alignment expectations and/or expectations of what roles are included. It forces the town to depend on something else for the win and gives scum a bit of much-needed wiggle room. Zan did a decent job of this, given the source material. Still would have been cool to see a major role left out intentionally or something.

There were other things that occurred to me, but that's all I recall. I'm less of a bitter old man than I sound, I swear.

[LittleDaniel]

NEW POLL IS LIVE, Y'ALL

[Gongsun Zan]

6 hours ago, Josh-oo-Winnie Lopez said:

A few thoughts occurred to me during this last game, and I can finally talk about them now it's done.

- First, exactly that: I hate it when people talk about a game in progress in here, whether they're part of the game or not. It can influence players to make decisions they wouldn't have otherwise.

- When a player asks a question of someone else, don't answer it for them. If they're scum, you've just provided an out for them, whereas they could slip up if you let them speak for their self.

- I really hate the dependency on claiming for town wins. It didn't bother me THAT much in Fargo, but it often keeps people from watching for scummy behavior and inconsistent play. Plus, claims write the scum's hit list for them. I'd especially love to see more games where the mod fucks with alignment expectations and/or expectations of what roles are included. It forces the town to depend on something else for the win and gives scum a bit of much-needed wiggle room. Zan did a decent job of this, given the source material. Still would have been cool to see a major role left out intentionally or something.

There were other things that occurred to me, but that's all I recall. I'm less of a bitter old man than I sound, I swear.

Well, I left Molly out of the game, and included Lenny Potts of all possible roles. 

But fair points none the less. Back to the drawing board for me!

[Azazel]

Something like YouPick mafia was great because there was no way to read into the roles.  I think the same can be done with some theme games if the runner are willing to not worry about keeping any sort of cannon. I would love to see games where the game runner made roles with abilities that made sense, but then randomly applied the roles so all of a sudden you are in a Batman Mafia on a scum team with Commissioner Gorden, Bane and Scarecrow, with Alfred as the SK and Batman is a naive cop.

[Josh]

59 minutes ago, Gongsun Zan said:

Well, I left Molly out of the game, and included Lenny Potts of all possible roles. 

But fair points none the less. Back to the drawing board for me!

Oh you did a great job. Don't feel otherwise.

[Molly]

4 hours ago, Gongsun Zan said:

Well, I left Molly out of the game, and included Lenny Potts of all possible roles. 

But fair points none the less. Back to the drawing board for me!

Well that's just mean.

 

 

 

 

 

[Essa]

11 hours ago, Josh-oo-Winnie Lopez said:

- I really hate the dependency on claiming for town wins. It didn't bother me THAT much in Fargo, but it often keeps people from watching for scummy behavior and inconsistent play. Plus, claims write the scum's hit list for them. I'd especially love to see more games where the mod fucks with alignment expectations and/or expectations of what roles are included. It forces the town to depend on something else for the win and gives scum a bit of much-needed wiggle room. Zan did a decent job of this, given the source material. Still would have been cool to see a major role left out intentionally or something.

There were other things that occurred to me, but that's all I recall. I'm less of a bitter old man than I sound, I swear.

How do people feel about the game runner giving out fake claims that can be used?  Do you think they help or is it more of a matter of ability claiming that you're referring to?  When I put together my game that's in waiting now I actually added one extra town role for every scum role and randomly selected (I have screenshots that prove it ) which town roles to include.  Then the x amount of left over town roles I'm providing to anyone that's not town aligned to be able to use as a fake claim.  Does that seem like something that would help against that?

[HarshMillennium]

It could, but scum being put into a position of lying helps town, but makes for a more interesting game.

[Gongsun Zan]

Personally I feel coming up with a believable fake claim is part of the fun as scum, but I don't have anything against giving scum fake claims (especially in games where there are very little available roles).

That said, one possible hybrid would be to have a scum role that can guess whether other roles in the game, so that he can test the waters for a fake claim. 

[Benjamin]

I'm in favor of giving scum super, super strong fake claims, like making a Marvel mafia where Spider-Man is a fake claim for the scum or something, and emphasizing that at the beginning of the game in the game rules. It hinders people from totally believing into it, but at the same time forces them to check into looking for scum behavior more, I think. 

[Kyle]

I really hope PROGRESS Mafia goes well when I eventually get to run it, otherwise the time I'm taking creating roles for PROGRESS Mafia 2 will be for naught.  

[DFF]

I like the scum team being given a single fake claim that one of them can use when necessary. Can always make a scum goon some kind of reverse miller too. 

I do like the idea of scum being able to search for characters in a game too. 

[Pizza]

Quote

When a player asks a question of someone else, don't answer it for them. If they're scum, you've just provided an out for them, whereas they could slip up if you let them speak for their self.

This. This is such a pet peeve of mine. 

Regarding claims, the best thing for a game runner to do is ask themself if at any point a significant number of townies put all their cards on the table, will they be able to solve the game. If the answer is yes, retool until the answer is no.

Edited June 23, 2017 by Pizza

[Nerf]

Putting something to the room because I feel I'm being somewhat too ambitious for my first foray in putting a game together:

What's the consensus on win conditions potentially changing mid-game depending on certain triggers?

[RPS]

13 minutes ago, Nerf said:

Putting something to the room because I feel I'm being somewhat too ambitious for my first foray in putting a game together:

What's the consensus on win conditions potentially changing mid-game depending on certain triggers?

You should look at some of the roles on EpicMafia. They have a lot of third party roles that win in interesting ways - aka someone picks a day/night and if the game ends on the day/night they win or a player wins the game and everyone loses if they get lynched. You could use some of those mechanisms or try to implement them in some way. 

[Ace]

As a rule though....Gatekeepers suck. Just ask @Plubby

[The Big Bratwurst]

I need some ideas for abilities in my Gotham: The Mafia Virus. It's gonna be a pretty big game and don't wanna get redundant.

[Josh]

Progress Mafia is ironically named.

[Marcos]

Anyone free over the next few days to help with a design question?

[Josh]

I should be able to help on Sunday. Maybe mid-day tomorrow.