MMA News and Discussion Thread

[KCC]

You don't waste time on a fight card with "get to know the fighter" segments. People are not going to turn in for that, they just want the fights. UFC doesn't do it and they don't have trouble drawing in fans. The only place they do it is the "countdown" shows. If EliteXC wants to showcase personality and getting to know their fights, that really is the only way to do it.

OK, but what are the video packages that air before every UFC fight on the main card with the guys hyping the fight? That's the kind of thing I'm talking about, getting the people hyped for the fight. If you just throw two dudes out there and say "Let's get it on", no one will care. If there are fighters people know and care about, they will get into the fights. Looking at this card, there are no fights anyone but the hardcores will care about, with the dubious exception of the main event, as none of these guys (well, perhaps Nick Diaz) have been established on previous shows.

When you speak of a Countdown show, I sort of agree, but it would be much more difficult for EliteXC to get a countdown show due to the fact that CBS would probably never air one and on Showtime, it would get crap ratings, rendering it pointless. With UFC it's a lot easier, as Spike caters to them.

Plus, UFC has an established legacy, with fighters with extensive histories and reputations. With the exceptions of Kimbo and perhaps Gina Carano, EliteXC has none of that and are a relatively new company. This greatly increases the importance of hyping your fighters as something special. Otherwise, why bother with EliteXC when you can just watch UFC?

[Guest Mr. Potato Head]

Nobody's saying that the video packages are gone for sure, just the elaborate entrances and ring girls and such.

[Krone]

Which is good for the EliteXC. I really think that Saturday night could be make or break for them. I mean people saw what happened last time with Kimbo almost losing to Thompson and it really didn't look too damn good for them considering they were using him as their drawing tool. Also, what the fuck at the Heavyweight title fight being on Showtime and not on CBS? I know they need their ratings too, but hot damn, that is horrible for people who actually wanted to watch Silva. Anyways, it is going to be extremely interesting to see how EliteXC does this Saturday and see if they can actually bring anyone back from the Kimbo fight. Less flash, more fucking action!

Oh, and how about Matt Hamill getting a fight against Rich Franklin? I freaking love it! Hamill is my favorite fighter overall and I can't wait to see him take on a former Middleweight champion albeit at a higher weight for Franklin. It is going to be a tough fight for Matt, but I really think if he can take him down to the ground, it could be Hamills game to win.

[KCC]

Nobody's saying that the video packages are gone for sure, just the elaborate entrances and ring girls and such.

There will be more fights and less talk.

That's what got me. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

[-A-]

Meltzer on the Affliction numbers:

As far as the numbers went, the big number everyone is looking for is the Affliction PPV number. Based on independent estimates we've heard, the number has been estimated at between 50,000 and 85,000 buys. Atencio claimed the number as being higher, saying it topped 100,000, although at press time, any numbers could only be considered rough estimates. Atencio told us that since UFC doesn't release numbers, he's not going to either (I know, after saying it was more than 100,000). Keep in mind that Pride claimed 150,000 buys for its first U.S. PPV in 2006, and the real number ended up being 40,000 (we know that because Nevada taxes on PPV revenue so you can get a real number; California does not so getting real numbers will be more difficult).

-Wrestling Observer

[Guest Mr. Potato Head]

Bit off-topic, but it really kinda cheapens things that now that the Observer is online, people just C+P what it says.

[IAceI]

Having just watch the Dream 5 Semis and Final, I have to say. Eddie Alvarez is the fucking man. And I can't remember what my opinion was on the English speaking commentators originally but I seemed to like them a lot more this time.

Anyways Eddie Alvarez, having see his match with Hansen and Kawajiri was immense. The way he just swings for the fences makes MMA entertaining for everyone, it would amazing if we could just clone him and put him on every single MMA card - because we'd be guaranteed some good fights.

Aoki, I can't figure out, I think he looks like a chimp. I love technical fighting, so you'd think I'd love Aoki, and I have warmed to him but I guess I just always want the underdog to win. I think it's because he's ranked #3, behind Penn and Gomi - now I haven't seen Gomi fight so I'll compare with Penn. But Penn seems a lot more explosive and dynamic than Aoki who just seems to rely massively on his submissions, but I guess it works for him. And if you're ever stuck for a submission move, Aoki tried about 12 different ones on Uno so I'm guessing it's one of them lot. He's a good fighter, and I guess I wanted him to beat Hansen - as I'm all for if you lose, you lose and it's not the 100% fair to let someone who lost rounds ago back into the final, but it also shows how different fights can be.

Still, the matches I watched were enjoyable. Uno got schooled. Kawajiri was good for the first time I've ever seen him, on my first look I didn't expect him to be able to stand and bang but at the end of the day, his punch is why Alvarez couldn't make the final.

I may catch up on some of the other matches from the event, but I've been following that Grand Prix semi-closely so I wanted to see it's conclusion.

Edited July 25, 2008 by IAceI

[crazedfan]

Aoki, I can't figure out, I think he looks like a chimp. I love technical fighting, so you'd think I'd love Aoki, and I have warmed to him but I guess I just always want the underdog to win. I think it's because he's ranked #3, behind Penn and Gomi - now I haven't seen Gomi fight so I'll compare with Penn. But Penn seems a lot more explosive and dynamic than Aoki who just seems to rely massively on his submissions, but I guess it works for him. And if you're ever stuck for a submission move, Aoki tried about 12 different ones on Uno so I'm guessing it's one of them lot. He's a good fighter, and I guess I wanted him to beat Hansen - as I'm all for if you lose, you lose and it's not the 100% fair to let someone who lost rounds ago back into the final, but it also shows how different fights can be.

You've pretty much hit Aoki on the head, all he really does is rely on his submissions to win fights. And it's worked so far for the most part. And as for letting Hansen back in, well he had won the replacement match earlier in the night in the case that a winning fighter couldn't continue, and that unfortunately happened to Alvarez. But injuries happen and it's happened before during a PRIDE Middleweight tournament I believe. One of the semi-final winners got injured, so somebody else came in and ended up winning the whole thing. I think we'll see an Alvarez/Hansen rematch immediately at DREAM 7, and then Aoki will fight the winner, maybe after getting another win or two, which will hopefully be Alvarez.

[IAceI]

Yeah this is the thing, MMA is hardly the sport for me to complain about a tournament not going exactly to the plan. First TUF7 and now the Lightweight DREAM Grand Prix.

It's just a shame because the fight should have been Alvarez vs. Aoki, that's what we were expecting to see and that's what we wanted to see I'm sure. They were the two best competitors in the whole tournament, by quite a margin as well so it's just a shame we didn't get a chance to see that and instead we had a replacement have to fight.

So I'm expecting Hansen vs. Alvarez, and then the winner against Aoki possibly? Which will be all well and good if it's Alvarez, because I want to see him and Aoki go toe to toe.

Edited July 26, 2008 by IAceI

[crazedfan]

Yeah, that's the route I would expect the title picture to take. An Alvarez/Hansen rematch since Alvarez has already beaten him and didn't lose in the tournament, and then whoever wins will fight Aoki. Whichever the result of Alvarez/Hansen, a fight with Aoki would be compelling. Alvarez/Aoki for obvious reasons since it should have been the final, and even Hansen/Aoki since Aoki went a full 15 minutes with Uno earlier in the night, and was clearly fatigued when Hansen had an extremely easy time with Kultar Gill. Either way, the DREAM Lightweight title scene is definitely intriguing, because you still have JZ Cavalcante who lost to Aoki in the first round after all that controversy and he's injured at the moment. An Alvarez/JZ fight would be incredible. Well, I think Alvarez would really just match up well with any opponent. I can't wait to see what this guy can do in the future.

[IAceI]

Kawajiri's in the mix too.

Although I think you have to respect Aoki's ability to recover that quickly after being kicked in the nads. That was pretty spectacular how soon after it happened, he was alright to carry on. Major props to that.

I think Hansen, Aoki, Alvarez, JZ and Kawajiri are all capable of carrying that belt to a high degree. Probably the first three moreso than JZ and Kawajiri but it's still good to know theres a decent amount of depth. And with the link between EliteXC yet to be in full effect, there's possibilities for more North American based fighters to come out like Alvarez and compete.

Dream are definitely doing well, and a Grand Prix's are just great ways to get people interested in the belt and competitors early on.

[Enter Blue Guy]

Whatever the hell Chris Cyborb is, I want none of it. She looks like a gorilla ready to suck the brains out of me with my large intestine.

[Gabriel]

EliteXC on CBS - July 26th

Robbie Lawler vs. Scott Smith by Knockout in the third round.

Antonio Silva vs. Justin Eilers by Knockout in the first round.

Nick Thompson vs. Jake Shields by decision

Thomas Denny vs. Nick Diaz by submission in the first round.

Cristiane Santos vs. Shayna Baszler by decision

Jeremy Freitag vs. Anthony Ruiz by knockout in the second round.

Wilson Reis vs. Brian Caraway by decision

Rafael Cavalcante vs. Travis Galbraith by decision.

[Enter Blue Guy]

Off the top of my head.

Robbie Lawler vs. Scott Smith, Lawler 2nd round KO

Antonio Silva vs. Justin Eilers, Silva 1st round KO

Nick Thompson vs. Jake Shields, Shields, 2nd round sub

Thomas Denny vs. Nick Diaz, 1st round TKO

Cristiane Santos vs. Shayna Baszler, Baszler by 1st round sub

Why not?

[Guest Mr. Potato Head]

Shields, Diaz, Feijao, Reis, and Silva are all being set up to win, and I think they all will.

Baszler should be able to get Santos down for a submission in the first round.

I'd like to see Ruiz win, but I have no idea how that one will go.

As for Lawler/Smith...if the match lasted an infinite number of rounds, Lawler would win by KO. The KO could come in just about any round. That's how I see it here - Lawler will *probably* win by KO eventually, but if not, he'll win on points.

[rocksta]

I just read that IFL has been purchased by UFC. Take from that what you will. Guy didn't provide a source but it makes sense.

[Guest Mr. Potato Head]

It was rumoured in the most recent Observer that it could happen, but as IFL's a public company, it wouldn't happen quietly.

[Fitzy]

Spoilers for EliteXC

Spoiler: Click here to view

Good show. Chris Cyborg looked good out there, no doubt she'll be the toughest test for Gina Carano (I assume this happens in October). I liked how she knocked out Baszler and then celebrated like she won. I guess when she bumped into Mazzagatti that she thought he stepped in to call the fight off but he never did so we had to wait until she realized what was going on before she destroyed Baszler to officially win.

Shields making quick work of Thompson was nice. Kinda stupid for him to call for a match with the winner of GSP/Fitch to unify the titles when he knows it'll never happen.

Diaz vs. Denny was entertaining. Great showing by Diaz.

Lawler vs. Smith II was also a good fight. Not as good as the first one but not many are. But still good stuff.

Should be interesting to see how this does in the ratings, but I enjoyed it. Good night over all.

Also, on the Showtime portion, Feijao looked great. Can't say the same for anyone else, though.

According to Meltzer, Dana White's announcement was UFC 89 airing on Spike and he also said that Anderson Silva will defend the Middleweight title against Patrick Cote at UFC 90.

[Guest Mr. Potato Head]

My thoughts on EXC...

Spoiler: Click here to view

Prelims weren't anything special...all the people I expected to win won, as Fitzy said only Feijao looked good (Reis was really exposed), and it was an hour I could have spent doing other things.

Womens' fight was great, as they all seem to be. Tough break for Shayna, but Santos makes a better heel opponent for Carano anyhow. The non-ending was one of the funniest things I've ever seen in MMA.

Shields destroyed Thompson, as expected. Almost too short to be good.

Actually missed Diaz/Denny, so no comments on that one yet.

And the main event wasn't as good as the first fight, but it certainly wasn't a stinker either. Would've been neat to see it go to the ground though.

So 10/4 is shaping up to be Carano vs. Cyborg, and what else? Feijao vs. someone for a LHW belt? Diaz vs. Noons? Kimbo? Tito?

[Gabriel]

10/4 will be headlined by Gina Carano's sexy ass and the return of Kimbo Slice.

Tito Ortiz is almost a lock to compete for Affliction, and the money he makes there will dwarf anything he would make anywhere else, so I'd definately bet on him not being in EXC.