The Punk RAWK Thread!

[VerbalPuke]

The simple fact that The Sex Pistols were all but created in the same fashion as The Monkees (from what I understand) makes all comments about 'real punk' null and void.

Eh that's not as much as a fact as some people think. Truth is, Steve Jones and Paul Cook had already been musicians and friends, and were accomplished musicians in their own right. Both were employee's of the "Sex" shop that Malcolm Mclaren and Vivien Westwood ran. Malcolm encouraged them to start a band, they needed a singer, and they asked a regular of the shop if he was interested. This was Johnny Rotten, his audition for the band was a poorly sang version of Alice Cooper's "Eighteen" from a juke box. I forget how Glen Matlock was introduced, but I believe he may have also been a frequent customer of the shop.

By the time Nevermind the Bollocks had been recorded, Matlock was on his way out of the band due to creative differences. Basically, the other three members though he was a big pussy. For example, he didn't like the idea of playing "God Save the Queen" because his mother wouldn't like it. When Sid Vicious joined, this was about the time the band began to disintegrate, and pretty much disbanded not long after Sid joined. Johnny and Malcolm never saw eye, especially creatively, seeing as Malcolm wanted them to write a song called Submission which was supposed to be about sex and submission. Johnny Rotten turned it into a song about a submarine mission.

I have never been able to pinpoint it, really. I mean, I like the Clash, YI mentioned the Gaslight Anthem, who I also like (indeed if they are considered somewhat punk), Refused (again, if thats what they fall under), what I've heard of the Dead Kennedys but otherwise, its never grabbed me like some other musical genres do. The raw agression side of things I feel is done better in other genres, so naturally listen to them if I fancy that. I guess the catchier side of it may be where I'd be best looking into, but I've never really been exposed too much to that, and then you get people like further up the thread who will be like 'THATS NOT PUNK RAWK' or some shit.

Liking metal, I guess crossover stuff is also a good idea.

I'm a bit on the opposite side of the fence here, but I'll still try and help. I've always found the raw aggression side of punk to be the best I've heard from any genre of music, even dating back to Iggy and the Stooges. I think I was drawn to punk because it was what I always had wanted from rock and roll. It was angry, bitter, and just plain in mean in much of it's approach, making rock and roll rebellious in the same way it had been in the 1950s. That's another thing, it was really just a revival of older rock and roll, stripping it down, and packing it with more punch.

So anyway, if you want some heavier shit, check out Anti-Cimex and English Dogs for a start. If you want something a bit more artsy fartsy, give the Swell Maps a shot. Maybe you'd like the Cramps or Gun Club? In fact, go ahead and check out the Gun Club.

Edited July 17, 2008 by VerbalPuke

[Laid_To_Waste]

That deadkennedy dude reminded me why I stopped getting into discussions about punk music

Anyway, rvdwannabe, from what you've mentioned i would suggest that straight up punk rock maybe isn't for you. I myself listen to very little of it nowadays. I've kinda branched out into hardcore/post hardcore.

Here are some bands I would suggest to you....

Comeback Kid - Try 'Broadcasting..', it's there newest album, lots of singalong gang chorus parts.

BoySetsFire - 'After the Eulogy' is a mighty fine album, but i would suggest you would like the title track or 'our time honored tradition of cannibalism'

Glassjaw - Not so punky, but they definitely have their roots firmly in new york hardcore. Get anything of their first album 'everything you ever wanted to know about silence'

Norma Jean - Not really punk at all, much more metal but they clearly have hardcore influences. Check out anything off 'redeemer' first of all, its their latest and most accessible album.

(In all honesty I would have recommended these bands no matter what you said, because they're all awesome )

[Gabriel]

Like I mentioned earlier, Cancer Bats' "Hail Destroyer" album is a fucking awesome hardcore album. It's a good bridge between punk and metal for a metal fan, I would think. As is their earlier stuff, and the stuff from The Banner that I also suggested, though while having a similar sound, they tend to lean more towards Horror stuff in terms of lyrics...and aren't nearly as catchy as the Bats can be.

[YI]

Thank fuck I was away when this shit 'kicked off'. Fuck off "dknumbers". I fucking hate cunts like you, especially when they judge modern day 'punk-rock' on the bands in the mainstream, a few I'd label as pop-punk/powerpop and wouldn't give the 'punk-rock' tag to. Just fuck off you self righteous piece of shit.

I mean, VerbalPuke and I have very different tastes in 'punk-rock', even though I do really enjoy a lot of older stuff, and actually take not of his suggestions and check them out from time to time. But at the same time he's intelligent, he puts his ideas across well, he knows what he likes and he doesn't come out and merely 'rubbish' bands.

I could rant all day about how people like this piss me the fuck off...but;

[Gabriel]

Hey YI... I just got my hands on some California United and Zoli Band stuff... figure you've probably heard it, but just wanted to reiterate that Zoli Teglas is the fucking man.

Did you ever get to hear his stuff with the Misfits live?

[YI]

Hey YI... I just got my hands on some California United and Zoli Band stuff... figure you've probably heard it, but just wanted to reiterate that Zoli Teglas is the fucking man.

Did you ever get to hear his stuff with the Misfits live?

I keep meaning to, but keep forgetting.

He is indeed awesome. And a MASSIVE motherfucker when you see him upclose. He could kill be with a flick.

[VerbalPuke]

I'm going to take advantage of this thread and poison all of you with some of my favorites.

I mentioned the Zeros in an earlier post, and here's a pretty decent video of them. It's an old recording of them on T.V., but the sound quality is pretty good (well, after the first few seconds) and stays pretty close to the sound from their studio album. I've got the vinyl of this album on it's way in the mail as of right now. Some folks referred to them as the "Chicano Ramones".

It's a cool video, they interview the band a bit towards the end. It's funny because they break the stigma that punkers had at the time of being crass, lewd, and brash. They come across as modest and shy in their interview, maybe a bit camera shy. They also are asked what is "Punk rock?" and "What makes it different"?

Something to look at for folks interested in getting a glimpse at some of the older bands.

[Skummy]

edit: Nothing to see here.

Edited July 19, 2008 by Skummy

[Skummy]

Does deadkenndys (sic) realise that there were just as many people saying Bad Brains "weren't punk" when they started, or that the hardcore movement "wasn't punk"? Or that practically anything that didn't sound like The Ramones or the Pistols (especially in the UK) "wasn't punk"?

To quote Jello Biafra, "why won't all the old bands reform, stick to playing the same songs - it ain't punk if it ain't just like the old days".

Most of what passes for punk today is shite, but it would be even worse if bands just spent the last thirty years regurgitating the same old style without allowing for any musical progression - it was that kind of Year Zero bullshit that killed punk in the UK even before the big-money media bastardisations of it got the chance to. Not to mention the fact that "punk" is such an arbitary term that has never had a definitive definition to it.

Anyway, here's some opinions.

Sex Pistols - Everything they were about has basically been lost in the fogs of time - Nevermind The Bollocks is not a good representation of what the Pistols were, it was produced to sound too much like a regular RAWK album, thus completely destroying the "Year Zero" mentality behind it and the idea that it would deconstruct what a rock album was supposed to be, and be the first "true" punk album. The live stuff is miles better, it's snottier, more aggressive, and makes no attempt to mask their lack of talent. Anything pre-Sid Vicious is a must. Public Image Limited were better.

The Ramones - Fantastic band, and I think it's insulting for deadkennedys to claim that "no one knows their good stuff" or whatever he said - I think everyone here has at least a passing knowledge of the band, and if they do they'll more than likely know the likes of Blitzkrieg Bop, Now I Wanna Sniff Some Glue, that kind of thing, and quite frankly they worked to a simple blueprint, if you know those songs, you know what the band are about. Personally, though, I prefer Joey's compositions to Dee Dee or Johnny's (with the exception of Dee Dee's "53rd & 3rd", which is one of their strongest tracks), simply because Joey was a real '60s pop star caught in a punk body - everything from his childishly naive lyrics, the Bay City Rollers references, to his faux-Ronnie Spector drawl is just brilliant. Nowadays, I'd probably rather listen to "I Wanna Be Your Boyfriend" than "Judy Is A Punk".

Dead Kennedys - One of the best "punk" bands ever. Great combination of music that stayed fast, simple and aggressive but wasn't afraid to deviate from the three chord bop bop bop formula, and lyrics that manage to be acerbic, politically charged, angry and wittty - pretty much summing up everything the punk movement was meant to represent.

The Clash - Rubbish pub rock band. They had a few great songs, but were mostly just sloganeering without any real political direction, really lazy songwriters, and obsessed with outlaw style rock and roll posturing bullshit. Probably Joe Strummer's least interesting band.

Bad Brains - Three good songs, horrible homophobes.

As for tracing the genealogy of music, punk had an over-riding influence on everything, so it's not as easy to trace as you might claim. It influenced everything from Cyndi Lauper's wardrobe to Napalm Death, and because of that really couldn't continue to exist in its original form. It grew too stagnant (much like the hardcore scene has done over the last few years because of its own refusal to change) and outlived its purpose, it needed to evolve, and evolve it has. Maybe what other people call "punk" doesn't agree with what you do, but at the end of the day who gives a toss?

Oh, and metal genealogy is at least as convoluted as punk, and the resulting strands bear even less resemblance to one another - we're talking about a genre that encompasses SunnO))), Ratt, Extreme Noise Terror and White Zombie to name just a handful of drastically different groups.

[VerbalPuke]

Speaking of the Sex Pistols, the few Eddie Cochran covers that Sid Vicious did were excellent. These are from the Great Rock and Roll Swindle, Something Else and Come On Everybody. I'm a big Cochran fan, and think that Sid with the band behind him did a great job of making the songs rocking.

The Dead Kennedys were great in large part to Jello, but also because the rest of the band had a distinct surf influence in their music.

The Clash were overrated, but the self titled was a good album.

Bad Brains did a lot of good work, but weren't the best band from their region with Government Issue around. And of course they weren't very kind to MDC in Texas as Skummy was referring to.

In what Skummy was saying about the whole "this isn't punk, or that isn't punk" argument, just take a look at San Francisco as a small example. Every band was different out there, the Dead Kennedys emulating surf, The Offs playing a ska/funk hybrid, Black Randy playing some off the wall avante garde style, Flipper with there ugly abrasive style, or Code of Honor just flat out playing hardcore. It all came from the same lineage but every band had their own spin on things.

Edit - and if I were to define it? I'd call it a youth inspired musical movement that was a conglomeration of many different faucets of music. It encompassed various sounds, styles, looks, and attitudes in it's approach. It should never be taken as one specific entity, but the culmination in combining different extremes in music.

Edited July 19, 2008 by VerbalPuke

[Liam]

That deadkennedy dude reminded me why I stopped getting into discussions about punk music

Anyway, rvdwannabe, from what you've mentioned i would suggest that straight up punk rock maybe isn't for you. I myself listen to very little of it nowadays. I've kinda branched out into hardcore/post hardcore.

Here are some bands I would suggest to you....

Comeback Kid - Try 'Broadcasting..', it's there newest album, lots of singalong gang chorus parts.

BoySetsFire - 'After the Eulogy' is a mighty fine album, but i would suggest you would like the title track or 'our time honored tradition of cannibalism'

Glassjaw - Not so punky, but they definitely have their roots firmly in new york hardcore. Get anything of their first album 'everything you ever wanted to know about silence'

Norma Jean - Not really punk at all, much more metal but they clearly have hardcore influences. Check out anything off 'redeemer' first of all, its their latest and most accessible album.

(In all honesty I would have recommended these bands no matter what you said, because they're all awesome )

Weirdly enough, already a big Glassjaw fan, and quite like BoySetsFire. Will look into the others.

[Iain76er]

Is it punk to get your cronies to beat up a black man for alledgedly no reason except their colour?

[YI]

Is it punk to get your cronies to beat up a black man for alledgedly no reason except their colour?

.....the best part of the story;

The story goes that then Okereke was punched and kicked by Lydon's crew, albeit not Lydon himself, while Ricky Wilson of Kaiser Chiefs and Yannis Philippakis of Foals attempted to fend off the attackers. Security broke up the fight and Spanish police were duly informed. Okereke made a statement to UK police once home.

Over 50 people witnessed the Barcelona attack - alongside members of Foals and Kaiser Chiefs were Mystery Jets, Neon Neon and Har Mar Superstar, all of whom saw what unfolded.

Of all the people to have your back in a fight, Yannis has to be pretty fucking low. I have some mental image of him diving into a group of attackers dancing like in the "Cassius" video...all the while Har Mar Superstar is standing in the corner, looking on in his underwear.

There has to be a video of this incident...please let there be a video.

[VerbalPuke]

Is it punk to get your cronies to beat up a black man for alledgedly no reason except their colour?

Only if your name is Ian Stuart.

Edited July 21, 2008 by VerbalPuke

[IAceI]

The most Wilson could probably do is "tambourine" them away.

[VerbalPuke]

So I think it's time for a suggestion. This is the Screamers, a big influence on Devo. They managed to capture the raw energy of punk without guitar or bass, just synthesizer, keyboard, and drums. They also had one of the most energetic frontmen of their era in Tomata Du Plenty. It's not for everybody, but it's certainly for me, so I bring this to you.

[Only In Dreams]

No Fun at all, and the majority of the bands that were listed are bands I listen too.

[Keith Kannon]

I've always been put off punk by what seems to be the majority of the fans (like the deadkennedys guy). The whole attitude is just so pretentious and fucked up especially when to me (and I admit I don't know a lot about punk, but this is just what it seems like) the whole "scene" built on contradictory bullshit. I have however always been a fan of the Sex Pistols and the Ramones. I'd appreciate any recommendations who I might enjoy as I like them. I like Gallows too, I always considered them punk or hardcore (someone will probably correct me) so any recommendations of similar bands to them would be appreciated too.

[VerbalPuke]

Try these Keith, The Dead Boys, Ramones, The Zeros, Johnny Thunders and the Heartbreakers, and the Saints, Slaughter and the Dogs, the Sex Pistols, Cyanide, and the Damned.

Oh and I'm curious as to exactly what the contradictory bullshit is, that the scene was founded on?

[Skummy]

I wouldn't say the scene's necessarily founded on contradictory bullshit, but there's a lot of it about. The fact that the punk ethos of just going out and doing whatever you like, whatever's within your capabilities, and of being individual managed to somehow grow into the strict uniformity of the hardcore scene is one such example.