The last of the Euro '96 semi-finalists retires

[Farmer Reil]

Paul Ince - David Platt - Paul Gascoigne

Central midfielders really shouldn't bother going into management...

Hmm...

Alex Ferguson - mediocre striker.

Jose Mourinho - didn't play at all.

Arsene Wenger - crap defender for half a season before becoming a manager.

Sven Goran Eriksson - shit rightback.

Guus Hiddink - Lower league midfielder for most of his career, couldn't cut it in the big leagues.

Harry Redknapp - exception that proves the rule, was a decent winger.

So, kids. If you want to be a great manager, either don't play football at all, or be crap at it.

Edited December 8, 2008 by Farmer Reil

[Dan]

Retiring on 599 games seems a little odd.

[Hajjhowe]

For the most part, star players tend to be very poor Manager/Coaches as they don't get a full grasp of what it's like to earn their way onto teams or the struggles required to compete at a top or any level. Their are obviously exceptions, but still.

[Pesci]

The exception, of course, being Italian players, who seem to make awesome managers.

[Liam]

Martin O'Neill was a good footballer, but then again, he was also managed by Brian Clough, so he probably learnt quite a bit about the management side of things.

[Lineker]

Paul Ince - David Platt - Paul Gascoigne

Central midfielders really shouldn't bother going into management...

Hmm...

Alex Ferguson - mediocre striker.

Jose Mourinho - didn't play at all.

Arsene Wenger - crap defender for half a season before becoming a manager.

Sven Goran Eriksson - shit rightback.

Guus Hiddink - Lower league midfielder for most of his career, couldn't cut it in the big leagues.

Harry Redknapp - exception that proves the rule, was a decent winger.

So, kids. If you want to be a great manager, either don't play football at all, or be crap at it.

Titus Bramble, England manager?

Anderton is a true legend of the game, shame to see him go; being a Spurs fan who loves Bournemouth.

[Emperor Fuckshit]

Just out of interest...

Of the 22 players who were in the '96 squad, still playing professionally are Gary Neville, Sol Campbell, Phil Neville, Robbie Fowler and (nominally -- hasn't made an appearance this season) Ian Walker.

From the squad who went to France '98, the players still active are Campbell, Gary Neville, David Beckham, Paul Scholes, Michael Owen and Rio Ferdinand.

It's surprising to me that Ferdinand was an England international as long ago as '98. And I would never have been able to name Steve Howey as the 22nd man in that Euro '96 squad (the other vaguely odd-looking choice is Steve Stone, but I remember his involvement quite clearly for some reason).

EDIT:- The 'players as managers' thing is kind of interesting. I tend to think that the two jobs involve almost completely different skillsets: the main problem for a non-player going into management would, initially at least, be the difficulty in 'earning respect' of his players and fellow staff more than anything, I think.

Great players who became great managers? The first one that comes to mind for me is Franz Beckenbauer. Two World Cup Final appearances as a manager, including one win. A French title, a Bundesliga and a UEFA Cup. Somewhat short managerial career (12 years; much of it coming sparsely as a national team manager), but success everywhere he went. I don't think his ability as a player is much in doubt, but still: 103 caps for Germany; twice European Footballer of the Year (as a sweeper, no less); captain of a World Cup winning side etc etc.

Edited December 29, 2008 by Emperor Fuckshit

[Anderson]

I remember Steve Stone because he was one of the first (with Nicky Barmby) to run up to David Seaman after he won the Penalty Shootout against Spain.

[IAceI]

As I recalled Martin Jol was pretty much a no name full back as well. When he was succeeding with Spurs I done the same and checked out all the big name managers to see how they were as players.

[JSV]

Alex Ferguson - mediocre striker.?

167 goals in 327 games (Including 45 in one season and 25 in 41 for Rangers) begs to differ.

[Emperor Fuckshit]

It's a fair point about Ferguson, but it is worth keeping in mind the different environment in which he played. The average team in the '64-'65 Scottish First Division (i.e. SPL equivalent) scored 1.78 goals per game. Last season in the SPL, the average team scored only 1.45 goals per game -- a significant difference over the course of a season.

I doubt there's ever been a time that 31 goals has been a poor (or even average) return for a striker in that league, but you have to make a bit of adjustment for time periods -- his season in '65 isn't equivalent to a 31 goal performance this year, for instance. And it's interesting to note that Ferguson's 31 league goals that year didn't make him the outright top scorer. More broadly, he was never capped by Scotland, for what that's worth. Though, obviously, the latter point can't all be laid at his door: the quality of competition comes into that to a large extent.

He probably was considerably better than mediocre, though. Apparently, the fee Rangers paid for him to St. Johnstone was a record between Scottish clubs at the time. Players fail to live up to transfer fees all the time, of course -- but it's indicative of how he was regarded by contemporaries, and that has to count for something when there's so little to go on.

[Matt]

Frank Rijkaard did quite well as a player and manager (so far).

[therockbox]

EDIT:- The 'players as managers' thing is kind of interesting. I tend to think that the two jobs involve almost completely different skillsets:

I think you can spot potential managers when they're playing, Rafa Benitez has spoken before about the possibilities of Xabi Alonso and Jamie Carragher becoming managers. They're not flashy or quick players, but their reading of the game is excellent, which I think would be the same for most current managers who used to be players. Looking at the younger managers in the Premiership over the last couple of seasons (Chris Coleman, Keane, Adams, Southgate etc), they weren't the quickest, so had to rely on their positional sense and reading of a match to get by, rather than sheer pace like Aaron Lennon or Jermaine Pennant. For example, for as good as Cristiano Ronaldo is, can you ever see him becoming a manager?

With great players becoming great managers, Kenny Dalglish has to be up there. As a player he won numerous titles with Celtic, six league titles and three European Cups with Liverpool, and as a manager won three First Division titles and two FA Cups with Liverpool and the Premiership with Blackburn

[Hobo]

And then it all went wrong

I think you can add to the list of good player = not great manager. John Barnes. Graeme Souness.

Though Keegan was/is a relatively good manager. Stuart Pearce isn't bad. John Toshack hits the mark of being both a good player and a good manager.

[Jam]

Alex Ferguson - mediocre striker.?

167 goals in 327 games (Including 45 in one season and 25 in 41 for Rangers) begs to differ.

Wasn't that in the Scottish leagues though? Unless they've got drastically worse I could probably score ten in a season up there

[ChrisSteeleAteMyHamster]

Brian Clough scored 251 goals in 274 games for Middlesbrough and Sunderland. A knee injjury ended his playing career at the age of 27 though.

Jack Charlton made 773 appearances for Leeds and 35 for England.

He then got Middlesbrough promoted back to the top flight in his first season, winning manager of the year.

He went to Sheffield Wednesday and got them promoted and as manager of Ireland he got them into the 88 Euro Championship (coming second in World Soccer manager of the year 88), 90 World Cup (first time Ireland had qualified for the World Cup) losing to Italy in the quarters, 94 World Cup....

I think he counts.

[Emperor Fuckshit]

EDIT:- The 'players as managers' thing is kind of interesting. I tend to think that the two jobs involve almost completely different skillsets:

I think you can spot potential managers when they're playing, Rafa Benitez has spoken before about the possibilities of Xabi Alonso and Jamie Carragher becoming managers. They're not flashy or quick players, but their reading of the game is excellent, which I think would be the same for most current managers who used to be players.

I think there's a degree of that: managers can probably spot which of their players have good tactical nous and leadership ability whilst they're stull players. But stilll, you often hear ex-players get tipped as 'the sort who'd succeed in management' who then completely fail. (Sorry I can't provide some good examples of this, I'm in a bit of a rush. I'll see what I can do later.) And it's a bit early to class Keane, Adams, Coleman and Southgate as sucessful mnagaers yet. Adams has been fairly poor in the two jobs he's had so far (very small sample), and the other three have had ups and downs. You only need to look at Stuart Pearce to see how quickly a popular ex-player can go from managerial flavour of the month to... well, Pearce has a good record as U-21 manager, but it's not really comparable with club management.

Jack Charlton is one I was going to mention, although Rijkaard completely slipped my mind. I've been looking at England's most capped players, and of players with 50 or more caps, it's conceivable that Glenn Hoddle might be the best manager. Haven't looked properly yet, though.

Edited December 30, 2008 by Emperor Fuckshit

[therockbox]

I was only really mentioning Adams, Keane and co as examples of players that go into management in the first place. I can't think of any managers, especially successful ones, that were known as players for being reliant on pace. Someone mentioned Paul Gascoigne earler, and he strikes me as one of those players that didn't have real football intelligence in terms of reading a match, but he was just so incredibly talented it didn't matter.

[The Future]

Just trying to think of names of some managers who were good at both playing and managing.

Fabio Capello comes to mind, he played for Roma,Milan,Juventus and won trophies with all three.

Bernd Schuster and Hoddle too.

[ChrisSteeleAteMyHamster]

Ossie Ardiles!