The 2010 NFL Thread

[naiwf]

Like I said ... it's Pittsburgh the guy has no hope against And again, we're talking about a guy who just completed his third year in the league ....

What was Manning doing his 3rd year in the league ? That's right, 0-2 in the playoffs with a 48% completion rate ...

It took Manning six years to get ANYTHING done in the playoffs. It wasn't until his 9th season that he finally got over the "New England Hump" in the playoffs.

Flacco is just fine right now.

Oh, and ECK ... it's not really that you're a homertastic douche on here most of the time ... it's that you actually think you aren't :/

Peyton NEVER played with a defense on par with what Flacco's working with. You can't compare the two when Flacco has three wins with 11, 9 and 4 completions respectively. That's winning IN SPITE of your QB. The Colts have won BECAUSE of their QB. We're not arguing the same point at all anymore if you don't see that distinction. Flacco is not a good enough QB to win with a great defense. He wouldn't do shit with Indy's.

EDIT: Matty Ice Ice Baby better win a playoff game soon too. 0-2 with a blow out loss at home as a # 1 seed is not the way to start a postseason career. Also, Chicago is going to regret not killing Green Bay when they had the chance since the Giants wouldn't still be alive at this point

Edited January 16, 2011 by naiwf

[HailtotheYo]

Peyton NEVER played with a defense on par with what Flacco's working with. You can't compare the two when Flacco has three wins with 11, 9 and 4 completions respectively. That's winning IN SPITE of your QB. The Colts have won BECAUSE of their QB. We're not arguing the same point at all anymore if you don't see that distinction. Flacco is not a good enough QB to win with a great defense. He wouldn't do shit with Indy's.

Erm, the point was that in his first three years Peyton wasn't doing his part either. :/

[mystikz]

Mason Crosby cost Green Bay their 50. not one punt, and the defense was great. can anyone beat this team? this is what they should of been at the beginning of the year. Rogers was flawless and they can make other teams think they'll run now with Starks. they almost beat New England with Flynn, with Rogers it shouldn't be a problem. great performance by the Packers.

[naiwf]

When Peyton didn't play well, or at a superhuman level, the Colts lost. When Flacco played like shit the Ravens still won 3 games and people point to that as something Flacco deserves credit for. That's my point. The only playoff game where Flacco played like a franchise QB was last week against KC. This is his one shining moment in 7 chances.

In Peyton's first 7 playoff games he had a game with 227 yds and a rushing TD, a 194 yd TD 0 INT effort, he played like shit against the Jets in a 41-0 blowout, went off for 22-26 377 yards and 5 TD against Denver, had 22-30 for 304 and 3 TD against KC, got raped by Belichick's D for 4 picks and had a 27-33 for 458 yards and 4 TD game against Denver. There is not a win in that group where Peyton played poorly or completed single digit passes. Stop comparing the two

[Evil Chase K]

Peyton NEVER played with a defense on par with what Flacco's working with. You can't compare the two when Flacco has three wins with 11, 9 and 4 completions respectively. That's winning IN SPITE of your QB. The Colts have won BECAUSE of their QB. We're not arguing the same point at all anymore if you don't see that distinction. Flacco is not a good enough QB to win with a great defense. He wouldn't do shit with Indy's.

Except for that year they won the Super Bowl.

[naiwf]

Peyton NEVER played with a defense on par with what Flacco's working with. You can't compare the two when Flacco has three wins with 11, 9 and 4 completions respectively. That's winning IN SPITE of your QB. The Colts have won BECAUSE of their QB. We're not arguing the same point at all anymore if you don't see that distinction. Flacco is not a good enough QB to win with a great defense. He wouldn't do shit with Indy's.

Except for that year they won the Super Bowl.

23-8 vs KC - 30-38, 268 yds, TD, 3 INT

15-6 @ BAL - 15-30, 170 yds, 2 INT

38-34 vs NE - 27-47, 349 yds TD, INT and a rushing TD

29-17 vs CHI - 25-38, 247 yds TD, INT

Not his best games, but he still completed 63+% of his passes and averaged almost 260 yards per game. You've got to be good when those are considered mediocre numbers. His worst game there coincidentally came against Baltimore's defense.

[Evil Chase K]

He was still in the negative in TD/INT ratio. And his yardage average is inflated due to that 47 pass performance in New England.

His yards per attempt (pretty much the best indicator of QB passing success) was only 6.75 which is pretty average.

Not to mention the Colts' defense was stifling and they actually had a running game. They were able to rely on those aspects when Peyton was essentially not playing well.

EDIT: To take it even further in the regular season the Colts had the league's worst rushing defense (5.3 yards per attempt). In the playoffs they gave up an average of 4.1 which is a huge difference, and would have put them above average in the league for that year.

Mannings yards per attempt number dropped to 6.75 from 7.9. 6.75 during the regular season would put him just ahead of Bears QB Rex Grossman, right in the middle of the pack.

But the Colts rushing offense was 4.0 ypa in the regular season, and 4.0 ypa in the post-season. But they ran the ball more.

So their running game stayed the same, their run defense improved, and Manning's production dropped in that playoff run.

Edited January 16, 2011 by Evil Chase K

[Damian WayLNKe]

It still took Manning six years to win his first playoff game It's had to compared the two when Flacco was drafted to a team that was built to go to the playoffs and they don't need him to win games. They would rather win close than take the chance of Flacco making a mistake.

[sahyder1]

Yes, Joe Flacco isn't Peyton Manning.....but neither are 99.99% of the QBs in NFL history. No, this is not a Manning situation no matter how you look at it. Flacco didn't inherit a team even half as bad as the one that Manning inherited. If Manning had the defense that Brady had for the early part of his career or the one Flacco has had the last 3 years he'd have 4-5 rings right now.

Flacco will be just fine. There is no need to compare him to the greatest to ever play the position. I don't see the Ravens making a change there.

Edited January 16, 2011 by sahyder1

[naiwf]

It still took Manning six years to win his first playoff game It's had to compared the two when Flacco was drafted to a team that was built to go to the playoffs and they don't need him to win games. They would rather win close than take the chance of Flacco making a mistake.

That's not going to work forever. They need to take the kid gloves off of Flacco eventually because that defense isn't going to have Lewis, Ngata, Reed and Suggs for the entirety of his career. At some point Baltimore's going to need Flacco to WIN a playoff game, not just be the guy who gets credited for the victory because his defense forced 4+ turnovers and he managed to gain 100 yards of offense on a ridiculously short field.

It's the same thing with Sanchez. If I have to hear another Jets fan say he's on par with Joe Namath because he's the franchise leader in postseason wins, I'm going to take a tire iron to Fireman Ed's knees.

Aaron Rodgers has fewer wins than those two individually, but has shown more in 3 games than they have in 11 combined.

[Evil Chase K]

Flacco just doesn't have the poise to be a winner. That pass he floated to a double-covered Todd Heap is proof positive of that.

Flacco only looks at his first read before scrambling to find Heap or Rice. Take those guys away and he's in trouble.

The guy has a great arm, but he couldn't beat out Tyler Palko at Pitt. There was certainly a reason for that.

[sahyder1]

The guy has a great arm, but he couldn't beat out Tyler Palko at Pitt. There was certainly a reason for that.

This isn't a rookie QB we are talking about anymore. He's been a NFL QB for 3 years now. Lets not compare him to Tyler Palko. If you want to play that game, Peyton Manning was behind Todd Helton on Tennessee's depth chart and Tom Brady was behind Drew Henson!

Edited January 16, 2011 by sahyder1

[Evil Chase K]

The guy has a great arm, but he couldn't beat out Tyler Palko at Pitt. There was certainly a reason for that.

This isn't a rookie QB we are talking about anymore. He's been a NFL QB for 3 years now. Lets not compare him to Tyler Palko. If you want to play that game, Peyton Manning was behind Todd Helton on Tennessee's depth chart and Tom Brady was behind Drew Henson!

But those guys eventually started.

Flacco had to transfer to fuckin' Delaware to get a chance to play.

[sahyder1]

The guy has a great arm, but he couldn't beat out Tyler Palko at Pitt. There was certainly a reason for that.

This isn't a rookie QB we are talking about anymore. He's been a NFL QB for 3 years now. Lets not compare him to Tyler Palko. If you want to play that game, Peyton Manning was behind Todd Helton on Tennessee's depth chart and Tom Brady was behind Drew Henson!

But those guys eventually started.

Flacco had to transfer to fuckin' Delaware to get a chance to play.

Yes, but the hell does that have to do with anything? There are 32 starting QB jobs in the NFL...he's had one. Whoever he was behind on the depthchart at Pitt is irrelevant and will never be heard from again. What does the size of the school have to do with anything? Guys mature. Heck, Rodgers didn't even have a scholarship offer out of H.S. Yes, Flacco needs to get better but trying to mention that he was at Delaware (as if that means anything) is ridiculous.

Read on twitter that the two highest scoring totals in Packers playoff history are by Aaron Rodgers led teams. That is insane if true given their great history.

Edited January 16, 2011 by sahyder1

[Evil Chase K]

Yes, but the hell does that have to do with anything? There are 32 starting QB jobs in the NFL...he's had one. Whoever he was behind on the depthchart at Pitt is irrelevant and will never be heard from again. What does the size of the school have to do with anything?

So have Kyle Boller, Tommy Maddox, Mark Malone, Shaun King, Alex Smith, etc. Lots of awful QBs get the chance to start so don't act like Flacco being a starter somehow validates him.

My point was that Flacco had superior tools to Palko. He's bigger, stronger, has a MUCH better arm, but he couldn't beat Palko out because the Pitt coaching staff didn't think he was as good a leader as Palko.

They wouldn't release Flacco from his scholarship because they wanted to hold onto him in hopes that he would grow into more of a leadership role after Palko graduated.

Now I'm not saying Flacco can't learn those skills. But he is not natural when it comes to being poised in the pocket. Tonight was literally the first time I ever saw him play against the Steelers where he didn't tuck the ball and fall to the ground at the first sign of trouble at least once.

He has yet to show any real improvement in the areas of his game that are lacking. He still forces the ball to receivers who aren't open, he still doesn't read his progressions properly, and he still panics in the face of a pass rush.

At this point in his career, we know what Joe Flacco is. A mediocre QB with an elite NFL arm. Can he get better? Yes. Will he? I don't know.

With Flacco, the Ravens are 3-11 against Pittsburgh, Indy, and New England. Two of those wins came against backup QBs.

[Hajjhowe]

How fucking dare you insult Tommy Maddox.

[HailtotheYo]

This article doesn't paint the same picture of the situatin at Pitt as you do: Pitt Post Gazette

Rodgers was also in the league for 3 years learning under Favre ... and didn't get the job done his first go 'round in the playoffs. Oddly enough, it is his sixth season that he's breaking out in the playoffs. Coincidence ?

[SeanDMan]

Added Palko: "Joe is the type of kid who would come into our quarterback meetings and someone would say, 'Joe, your house is on fire.' He'd be like, 'Well, all right, man, I guess someone had better call the fire department.' It was like nothing rattled him."

...I can just imagine a guy like that in the Super Bowl.

"Dude, that was a pretty rough sack."

"I'm fine."

"I think your arm is broken!"

"Don't worry about it."

"No, man, like, I can see bone sticking out."

"Well then I'll throw southpaw. You do your job, and I'll do mine!"

[Evil Chase K]

This article doesn't paint the same picture of the situatin at Pitt as you do: Pitt Post Gazette

What do you want the Pitt staff to say?

"He sucked and we hated him. We have no idea why Walt Harris recruited him?"

Nothing in that article disproves what I said. He couldn't beat out Tyler Palko.

Of course they're heaping praise on the guy, it's a feature story. They aren't going to sit down and tell some reporter that Flacco sucked. How would that make them look to future recruits?

The bottom line is Pitt felt more comfortable with Palko's ability to lead the team and his ability to make plays in big situations. I have 100% confidence that that is the main reason Palko started over Flacco.

Edited January 16, 2011 by Evil Chase K

[Powerhart]

What really matters RIGHT NOW is... where the hell is Tyler Palko? Because you make him sound like he is WAY better than Flacco and Flacco just played his seventh playoff game.

Edited January 16, 2011 by Powerhart