Inception

[Olive the other Jiberdeer]

[Josh]

That's actually pretty awesome.

[AnnIQ Edison]

What did they do there? Except have the cue be a countdown? Unless that is what it was.

[EddieRuckus]

The cue from the french song was slowed down, and Nolan composed one of the familiar themes by using a lot of elements(chords, dissonance, tempo, etc) from that slow sample.

[LL!]

Or, rather, the genius Hans Zimmer did.

[EddieRuckus]

Yes, Zimmer did. And it's not really tempo(since the tempo would be the original speed), so rather the rhythm.

[HeartlineTwist]

I saw the movie again last night. Still can't seem to gather my thoughts intelligently about this movie. Although seeing it a second time definitely lets you appreciate the film more and watch closely.

For example:

Assuming that the top IS still spinning at the end of the movie and would continue to do so, thus indicating dreaming (kind of, more on that in a moment), there's a potential problem/food for thought. The top wobbles and falls earlier in the movie when Cobb spins in after the failed extraction with Saito (when he's in the hotel/penthouse with the gun and looks like he may actually kill himself if the top does continue to spin). So, now we are left to wonder how to rectify that with a potential possibility for the ending. I also really want another viewing to clarify the logic of totems because Cobb's totem actually belongs to someone else and he tells Ariadne exactly how it works, which both seem like big no-no's according to Cobb and further confirmed by Arthur. This makes it really hard to interpret whether or not the audience can trust the top as truth or not, which I think the ambiguity of the ending reflects anyway.

[Damian WayLNKe]

I saw the movie again last night. Still can't seem to gather my thoughts intelligently about this movie. Although seeing it a second time definitely lets you appreciate the film more and watch closely.

For example:

Assuming that the top IS still spinning at the end of the movie and would continue to do so, thus indicating dreaming (kind of, more on that in a moment), there's a potential problem/food for thought. The top wobbles and falls earlier in the movie when Cobb spins in after the failed extraction with Saito (when he's in the hotel/penthouse with the gun and looks like he may actually kill himself if the top does continue to spin). So, now we are left to wonder how to rectify that with a potential possibility for the ending. I also really want another viewing to clarify the logic of totems because Cobb's totem actually belongs to someone else and he tells Ariadne exactly how it works, which both seem like big no-no's according to Cobb and further confirmed by Arthur. This makes it really hard to interpret whether or not the audience can trust the top as truth or not, which I think the ambiguity of the ending reflects anyway.

Cobb's top bothers me too. What is keeping everybody else from giving him a top that will stop spinning in their dreams? Unless he wants them to so he can believe he is in reality while he is actually still in a dream. That probably isn't it, but I feel like there is something to this.

Edited July 27, 2010 by LNK

[TKz]

Only Cobb know's the weight of the spinner. That's why everyone has their own thing which they never let anyone else touch. If the dream can't reproduce the weight of the object, you know it's fake.

[Damian WayLNKe]

Only Cobb know's the weight of the spinner. That's why everyone has their own thing which they never let anyone else touch. If the dream can't reproduce the weight of the object, you know it's fake.

I understand that, but it was made clear that we focused on whether his totem would spin forever or if it would fall over. What is preventing the others from creating a dream where his top stops spinning?

[LL!]

Never ceases to kill me.

[HeartlineTwist]

Only Cobb know's the weight of the spinner. That's why everyone has their own thing which they never let anyone else touch. If the dream can't reproduce the weight of the object, you know it's fake.

Mal knows the weight of that object...Furthermore, one could easily argue that Cobb seems a little too caught up in the moment to even give the top much consideration at that crucial point in the film. Although my bigger thinking point has more to do with trying to figure out when the (possible) dream suggested by the ending is taking place because an earlier part of the film in the supposed "reality" level features the top falling over instead of endlessly spinning as it supposedly should if the entire film was all in the context of a dream with several other levels.

[Farmer Reil]

Only Cobb know's the weight of the spinner. That's why everyone has their own thing which they never let anyone else touch. If the dream can't reproduce the weight of the object, you know it's fake.

Mal knows the weight of that object...Furthermore, one could easily argue that Cobb seems a little too caught up in the moment to even give the top much consideration at that crucial point in the film. Although my bigger thinking point has more to do with trying to figure out when the (possible) dream suggested by the ending is taking place because an earlier part of the film in the supposed "reality" level features the top falling over instead of endlessly spinning as it supposedly should if the entire film was all in the context of a dream with several other levels.

Although it belonged to someone else, that someone else is now dead, so can't possibly use that information against Cobb. Only Cobb knows how that top feels, and presumably it's weighted to be noticeably different to other similar tops (just like we see the girl carving up her chess piece so that it's different to any others.

And yeah, the top does fall over earlier in the film, but to be fair he hardly spun it fairly. He just spun it quickly and awkwardly in a rushed fashion and it fell off the table. Any top would do that under those circumstances, dream or no, it barely even got started spinning. So it's easily plausible that the entire thing was a dream.

[hackerjack]

Good film, really nice ideas, just a pity it came out so soon after Shutter Island as the ending is so similar in the way it plays psychological games with the viewers. I'm still giving it a 9 (and I reckon I've only ever given about a dozen 10s).

Regarding complaints about it:

Most of the complaints about the movie can all be explained away if you believe the entire thing was an inception on Cobb.

Charachters not having depth - Well they are just projections, each made with simple motivations and attitudes that are relaistic enough to believe at a glance but perhaps lacking in detail if you sratch below the surface.

Non-Rotation on the Arctic level - Dreams do not always follow the rules, or perhaps the rotation was just massively slow.

Kids faces/clothes - Locked in time just like Mol

The deal - The massive coincidence of Saito asking for Inception when no-one know Cobb was capable of it

Maybe it's just me imagining that all of these things sit in place together but I think there are just far too many of them all pointing in the one direction to be accidental.

As for Cobbs Totem:

He doesn't tell anyone else how it's weighted, how long it stays spinning for (he seems to know exactly how long it should be himself when he is checking it alone).

That said, the fact it falls exactly right then could be also part fo the dream, once he takes his attention away from it at the end it spins for much longer a time whether it fell or not.

Again if we believe the entire movie is an inception then we have no idea who is performing it and how much they know. Hell it could even be Mol who is performing the Inception on Cobb.

[HeartlineTwist]

I'm pretty sure that Cobb's spin of the top right after the failed extraction of Saito when he's in the penthouse/hotel thing and Arthur comes in shortly after is definitely a fair and good enough spin of the top, which DOES topple, to help validate the idea that the entire movie isn't a dream.

But if you accept that it COULD be...then there is absolutely no reason to believe Mol is dead because the "reality" level would merely be a dream at that point, so her suicide wouldn't have actually killed her.

Although Saito's use of some of her lines helps with the idea that the "reality" level is actually a dream because those lines are SO impractical that I just don't see them being used on accident. At that point, I would say that Saito is a projection when those lines coincide.

http://www.chud.com/articles/articles/24477/1/NEVER-WAKE-UP-THE-MEANING-AND-SECRET-OF-INCEPTION/Page1.html

I think that's a well-written read.

As for Shutter Island:

There's a really awesome list/article written about all of the things in the film that suggest that DiCaprio's character actually IS sane

Edited July 29, 2010 by HeartlineTwist

[hackerjack]

I'm pretty sure that Cobb's spin of the top right after the failed extraction of Saito when he's in the penthouse/hotel thing and Arthur comes in shortly after is definitely a fair and good enough spin of the top, which DOES topple, to help validate the idea that the entire movie isn't a dream.

But if you accept that it COULD be...then there is absolutely no reason to believe Mol is dead because the "reality" level would merely be a dream at that point, so her suicide wouldn't have actually killed her.

Although Saito's use of some of her lines helps with the idea that the "reality" level is actually a dream because those lines are SO impractical that I just don't see them being used on accident. At that point, I would say that Saito is a projection when those lines coincide.

http://www.chud.com/articles/articles/24477/1/NEVER-WAKE-UP-THE-MEANING-AND-SECRET-OF-INCEPTION/Page1.html

I think that's a well-written read.

I must have missed Saito using Mols lines, which ones were they (cant access the site right now)

As for Shutter Island:

There's a really awesome list/article written about all of the things in the film that suggest that DiCaprio's character actually IS sane

Sane all the way through? Maybe, but I'm firmly in the camp that believes he was nuts for 90% of it, then accepted the truth finally before pretending to still be insane to force them to deal with him (presumably execution) so he didn't have to live with the truth that it is his wife and kids who were dead. Just makes mmore sense to me that.

[TCO]

As for Shutter Island:

There's a really awesome list/article written about all of the things in the film that suggest that DiCaprio's character actually IS sane

Sane all the way through? Maybe, but I'm firmly in the camp that believes he was nuts for 90% of it, then accepted the truth finally before pretending to still be insane to force them to deal with him (presumably execution) so he didn't have to live with the truth that it is his wife and kids who were dead. Just makes mmore sense to me that.

They weren't going to execute him, they were going to give him a lobotomy. But yeah I think he was insane the whole way through before the roleplay snapped him out of it, but he'd rather not remember the whole deal with his wife, so he pretented to be insane once again to recieve the lobotomy.

[Josh]

Man, this thread has turned into a Bush administration internal document.

"Cobb had [REDACTED] and the [REDACTED]. Furthermore, [REDACTED] until [REDACTED] The Dark Knight."

[Pesci]

Fuck me! That was awesome. I went into it with really high expectations because Nolan is a pimp and the trailer was the right ratio of mystery and strange shit and it went beyond my expectations. It's not a film I can watch again any time soon, but that's the same for all of Nolan's movies. And for me it goes Inception > The Dark Knight/Memento/The Prestige > Batman Begins. I can't differentiate between the middle three because the only one I've seen more than once is The Dark Knight and I didn't enjoy it nearly as much the second time around. Inception is just first at the moment because I've still got a hard on for it, but I don't think I enjoyed The Dark Knight quite this much. Memento's obviously hampered because whenever I see it again I'm gonna know exactly how it all pans out. And The Prestige... shit I really should watch that again.

Edited July 29, 2010 by Pesci

[marksbros6]

Isn't there a line in the film about how the spinner is Mal's totem? I thought everyone had to have their own individual totem, unique to be aware that they aren't dreaming? If we never see Cobb's totem then does it mean that he's dreaming and Mal's totem doesn't work for him?

Edited July 29, 2010 by marksbros6