Inception

[Adam]

Isn't there a line in the film about how the spinner is Mal's totem? I thought everyone had to have their own individual totem, unique to be aware that they aren't dreaming? If we never see Cobb's totem then does it mean that he's dreaming and Mal's totem doesn't work for him?

Not necessarily. The reason given for everyone having their own is because only the holder should know the weight and everything of the totem. The only person besides Dom Cobb who knew that was Mal, and she is dead, so not a problem.

Edited July 30, 2010 by AdamDRFC

[the machine]

Fuck me! That was awesome. I went into it with really high expectations because Nolan is a pimp and the trailer was the right ratio of mystery and strange shit and it went beyond my expectations. It's not a film I can watch again any time soon, but that's the same for all of Nolan's movies. And for me it goes Inception > The Dark Knight/Memento/The Prestige > Batman Begins. I can't differentiate between the middle three because the only one I've seen more than once is The Dark Knight and I didn't enjoy it nearly as much the second time around. Inception is just first at the moment because I've still got a hard on for it, but I don't think I enjoyed The Dark Knight quite this much. Memento's obviously hampered because whenever I see it again I'm gonna know exactly how it all pans out. And The Prestige... shit I really should watch that again.

While you're watching the Prestige you should really watch Memento again. Just like Inception, it's worth seeing more than once to understand some of the ambiguity in the story and see how Nolan tells the story in such a creative way. Knowing the plot really shouldn't effect the enjoyment of movies like that.

[HeartlineTwist]

Isn't there a line in the film about how the spinner is Mal's totem? I thought everyone had to have their own individual totem, unique to be aware that they aren't dreaming? If we never see Cobb's totem then does it mean that he's dreaming and Mal's totem doesn't work for him?

Not necessarily. The reason given for everyone having their own is because only the holder should know the weight and everything of the totem. The only person besides Dom Cobb who knew that was Mal, and she is dead, so not a problem.

But how can you say with certainty that she is dead?

[Maxx]

Probably because concepts like that only exist in the minds of fanboys who want to think they're smarter than everyone else, including the director and screenwriter. They over analyze everything and create a million small little clues that hint to big secret plot points that ultimately only exist in their mind. Go dig up the Shutter Island thread, on the final page someone posted an essay someone wrote doing exactly what I just described.

[HeartlineTwist]

Probably because concepts like that only exist in the minds of fanboys who want to think they're smarter than everyone else, including the director and screenwriter. They over analyze everything and create a million small little clues that hint to big secret plot points that ultimately only exist in their mind. Go dig up the Shutter Island thread, on the final page someone posted an essay someone wrote doing exactly what I just described.

Well...no. The point I'm making is that if an interpretation of the ending is that the entire movie was a dream, then Mol would DEFINITELY be alive. As I've asserted in several spoilered tags in the past page or two, I think the interpretation that the WHOLE movie is a dream is a flawed interpretation based on the film itself, but considering the "reality" level of the movie as a level of a dream means that Mol killing herself DOES NOT equal dead Mol.

If you don't interpret the ending as the whole movie being a dream, but that the ending moments were dreams themselves, I'm still curious when and how this dream exists in the context of the plot, but that's more of a curiosity thing than anything else. Especially because it would cast doubt on exactly what transpires between Cobb and Old Saito, and/or whether that was just another level of a dream.

As for your Shutter Island example, I'm pretty sure I know exactly which essay you're talking about, and while I agree to a certain extent, having read that essay, there are some points that would basically mean there was some incredibly sloppy filmmaking if some of the points addressed DON'T hold some merit (such as the visual differences between the two lighthouses that are supposedly the same lighthouse).

Edited July 31, 2010 by HeartlineTwist

[Maxx]

Yes, but the entire idea that the whole film is a dream is completely asinine. It's a dream within a dream within a dream ad naseum and including a section where one of the dreams inside the dream involved a dream so deep that they lived within it for 50 years. Step back and look at how convoluted that idea would make the entire film and it should be pretty obvious parts of the film are most certain NOT a dream. That would just be adding way too many layers to the point of being ridiculous. That entire idea seems like someone really liked the concept of multi-layered dreaming and just decided to add upon it as far as they could take it.

[HeartlineTwist]

Yes, but the entire idea that the whole film is a dream is completely asinine. It's a dream within a dream within a dream ad naseum and including a section where one of the dreams inside the dream involved a dream so deep that they lived within it for 50 years. Step back and look at how convoluted that idea would make the entire film and it should be pretty obvious parts of the film are most certain NOT a dream. That would just be adding way too many layers to the point of being ridiculous. That entire idea seems like someone really liked the concept of multi-layered dreaming and just decided to add upon it as far as they could take it.

Well, like I said, personally I don't think the ending means the entire thing is a dream at all. But under that interpretation, which I think people are perfectly capable of arguing, Mol might not be dead at all.

Hell, to a certain extent, I hope that Christopher Nolan does some commentary on the DVD/BluRay to shed some light on this. Not so much as to provide canon for the story, but as to reveal some insight from his mind on his film. Hell, I think he left enough clues/evidence in the text of the film to support multiple interpretations, so I would love to see him discuss some of them.

[Pesci]

Can we not just put *SPOILERS* in the thread title and be done with it?

[HeartlineTwist]

Can we not just put *SPOILERS* in the thread title and be done with it?

No, no we can't.

[Pesci]

Can we not just put *SPOILERS* in the thread title and be done with it?

No, no we can't.

Oh, ok.

[Adam]

Whether it's all a dream or not, can we stop calling Mal 'Mol'?

As regards the ending, I think it's possible that although the whole film is not a dream, them waking up on the plane is just another level down from the Cobb/Old Saito one. Possibly.

[HeartlineTwist]

Whether it's all a dream or not, can we stop calling Mal 'Mol'?

As regards the ending, I think it's possible that although the whole film is not a dream, them waking up on the plane is just another level down from the Cobb/Old Saito one. Possibly.

See, that's something I've considered, but my issue with that is that that would mean that the limbo that Cobb and Ariadne and Fischer go to isn't the REAL limbo at all because our understanding is that limbo is supposed to be the absolute bottom and that's why Mal's and Cobb's architecture and world they built was all still there. But I've been having this nagging feeling that maybe that WASN'T the real limbo, but then we have to extrapolate the consequences of killing yourselves in that level.

So, do we think that Mal/Cobb's "limbo" is the same "limbo" at the end of the film, or is that "limbo" something that Cobb constructed himself at the end of the film, creating a false "limbo"? I mean, I find it sort of odd that Cobb wakes up on the shores of "limbo" twice because that doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

I wonder if Nolan will discuss any specifics about these sorts of ideas in the commentary.

[livid]

Whether it's all a dream or not, can we stop calling Mal 'Mol'?

As regards the ending, I think it's possible that although the whole film is not a dream, them waking up on the plane is just another level down from the Cobb/Old Saito one. Possibly.

See, that's something I've considered, but my issue with that is that that would mean that the limbo that Cobb and Ariadne and Fischer go to isn't the REAL limbo at all because our understanding is that limbo is supposed to be the absolute bottom and that's why Mal's and Cobb's architecture and world they built was all still there. But I've been having this nagging feeling that maybe that WASN'T the real limbo, but then we have to extrapolate the consequences of killing yourselves in that level.

So, do we think that Mal/Cobb's "limbo" is the same "limbo" at the end of the film, or is that "limbo" something that Cobb constructed himself at the end of the film, creating a false "limbo"? I mean, I find it sort of odd that Cobb wakes up on the shores of "limbo" twice because that doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

I wonder if Nolan will discuss any specifics about these sorts of ideas in the commentary.

I have no doubt that Nolan made so that there are multiple interpretations of what happened but you are reading way too into it at this point and you really just need to fucking stop because it's gotten to the point where you're making me regret seeing the fucking movie (and I loved it). Just stop already, fuck

[Crybaby Bunting]

I just like how the general theme of the film is "As long as you're alright with the situation that you're living in, it doesn't matter if it's a dream", whereas in most films that touch upon that subject real life is just a cold and heartless place that is nothing like the comfortable dreamland. It's just a really optimistic film that is really, REALLY, well made.

Because who actually cares if he's in limbo if he's there with his kids? So it's a bad thing that he's spending pretty much eternity with his kids before waking up and living his life again?

He's already explained that the reason his wife went batshit crazy was because he planted an idea into her head in the first place... it's not as if he's going to do the same thing now he's learned his lesson.

Edited August 2, 2010 by The General

[HeartlineTwist]

I just like how the general theme of the film is "As long as you're alright with the situation that you're living in, it doesn't matter if it's a dream", whereas in most films that touch upon that subject real life is just a cold and heartless place that is nothing like the comfortable dreamland. It's just a really optimistic film that is really, REALLY, well made.

Because who actually cares if he's in limbo if he's there with his kids? So it's a bad thing that he's spending pretty much eternity with his kids before waking up and living his life again?

He's already explained that the reason his wife went batshit crazy was because he planted an idea into her head in the first place... it's not as if he's going to do the same thing now he's learned his lesson.

Didn't say that it was a bad thing at all. I'm just curious in thinking out the story, especially because I am DEFINITELY inclined against thinking that anything I've been discussing recently is in any way, shape or form a plot hole or an oversight on Nolan's part. Just using others as a sounding board to bounce thoughts and ideas off of.

I mean, hell, I think Cobb's happiness is clear enough. He couldn't give two shits at the end whether or not the top fell over or not because he saw his kids and that was that.

[rocksta]

I loved this but I liked memento better.

[Herr Matzat]

This is the best new movie i have seen in a long time.