Inception

[TKz]

Sssh. Why you gotta go killing my point, Zero?

Okay then, out of the Nolan films I've seen (which does not include The Following and Insomnia), Memento was the weakest.

[Jimmy]

I haven't seen The Following, but Insomnia is his weakest. Momento is a fantastic film; but I'd also rank it behind BB, Dark Knight and The Prestige. But that's only because I made a real connection with all those three films. Also, I thought the character development for the other characters was spot on. I don't think there was room for any other character to develop further than they did. Money was thier motivation, and it was mostly DiCaprio's show.

[HeartlineTwist]

I'll have more specifics about why I will (subjectively) stick to this as Nolan's masterpiece later, but I want to clarify that The Dark Knight is an extremely close second.

EDIT:

Definitely not the third greatest film of all time, though. Although The Dark Knight bounced around near the top of that list when it first came out. It's come down some.

Edited July 23, 2010 by HeartlineTwist

[TheSqauredCircleMessiah]

I loved the cast, this guy said it best:

Can't make a movie without Michael Caine

But this is not the 3rd greatest film of all time, IMDB voters. As its been said before, its debateable whether this is even Nolan's best film.

But, the trailer for "The Social Network" was really good.

[EddieRuckus]

Ughh...it honestly was one of the best movies I've ever seen, but to be the third greatest film of all time is pushing it. I still need to get around to watching Memento and The Prestige.

[Jimmy]

Everyone should watch The Prestige if they haven't seen it. Jackman's never done anything nearly as good. And Bale is on top form. It's a really complete movie.

[The Quasi Juice]

Just came back from the movies.

Great actors.

Great story.

Great visuals.

Equal level to The Dark Knight, better than The Prestige and Batman Begins IMO. Inception was fucking amazing, I can't believe how 'meh' people are here. There are no plot holes which is amazing for such a deep story.

[HeartlineTwist]

Everyone should watch The Prestige if they haven't seen it. Jackman's never done anything nearly as good. And Bale is on top form. It's a really complete movie.

The Prestige really is class. Hell, I got really upset on a different forum a few weeks back when people were talking about copyright infringement versus "borrowing" ideas and then mentioned that The Prestige and The Illusionist came out at roughly the same time and compared them.

For those playing the home games, about the only decent comparison between those movies is that they both have magicians. The similarities end right there.

[the machine]

Everyone should watch The Prestige if they haven't seen it. Jackman's never done anything nearly as good. And Bale is on top form. It's a really complete movie.

The Prestige really is class. Hell, I got really upset on a different forum a few weeks back when people were talking about copyright infringement versus "borrowing" ideas and then mentioned that The Prestige and The Illusionist came out at roughly the same time and compared them.

For those playing the home games, about the only decent comparison between those movies is that they both have magicians. The similarities end right there.

Comparing two movies with distinctive plots that came out in the same year doesn't seem like that big of a stretch as far as comparisons go. While they both developed in different ways, is it so hard to believe that somebody at Yari heard that Warner Brothers had greenlit a film centered around a 19th century magician and turned around and came out with a similar project? That'd be like arguing that Lionsgate was in no way influenced by word that 20th Century Fox was doing a Tom Cruise/Cameron Diaz action comedy about a spy in their decision to make Killers, an action comedy where spy Ashton Kutcher runs into blonde normal person Katherine Heigl.

Also I saw the movie again, and it's so amazing. For a big budget action film to develop such an amazing system of visual and audio storytelling is an accomplishment that can't be emphasized enough. Not only does it have sound editing that's equally amazing as the Dark Knight's, it gives us a storyteller's eye that shows us things that we don't immediately understand: these images are then planted in out subconscious so that later when we get the context the symbols become loaded with meaning. The shaking train tracks, the spinning top, the wine glass crunching underfoot: we see and hear all of it before we know what they mean and when we finally learn their meanings they have that much more emotional weight because we've already been introduced to them. Critics complaining about the shot to shot moments not feeling like a dream are out of their minds because this is exactly the sort of sensory recognition and subconscious symbolism that dreams are full of. The film also contains numerous examples of "dream logic," where things with no inherent significance become increasingly important. In the top level dream, Fischer seems to just make up six numbers: they don't have any independent meaning. We see those numbers again when Eames, as the blonde woman, writes them down in front of Fischer. Then the numbers correspond to two hotel rooms that are inexplicably below one another even though common sense says that 428 would be under 528. Finally, in the third level, these random numbers are the combination to the locked room. This isn't inception as Fischer made up the numbers in the first place, but he's taken these random numbers and turned them into the keys that unlock his father's final wishes.

That a movie that features car chases, emotional weight and incredible sound mixing also features this level of psychological depth is an incredible feat. It's an action film with real emotion and intellectual depth. Movies like this are why I love movies.

[zero]

Equal level to The Dark Knight, better than The Prestige and Batman Begins IMO. Inception was fucking amazing, I can't believe how 'meh' people are here. There are no plot holes which is amazing for such a deep story.

I don't think people are "meh" because of perceived plot holes. I'm "meh" simply because it wasn't as good as everyone's hyping it up to be. I certainly didn't see a movie with "such a deep story," I thought it was rather straight forward. Definitely not the mindfuck I expected... a mind-dry hump perhaps.

[The Quasi Juice]

Equal level to The Dark Knight, better than The Prestige and Batman Begins IMO. Inception was fucking amazing, I can't believe how 'meh' people are here. There are no plot holes which is amazing for such a deep story.

I don't think people are "meh" because of perceived plot holes. I'm "meh" simply because it wasn't as good as everyone's hyping it up to be. I certainly didn't see a movie with "such a deep story," I thought it was rather straight forward. Definitely not the mindfuck I expected... a mind-dry hump perhaps.

So how did it end according to you then if it's so straight forward?

[ChrisSteeleAteMyHamster]

I think I agree with the machine.

Prestige was good but I preferred Insomnia. I really like the Batman movies but Memento IS better than them.

This is better than Memento.

I know the advertising was a wrong or misleading or whatever (much like Danny Boyle's Sunshine actually) but strangely Inception felt delicate at heart. It drew me in wonderfully. The acting performances were top notch and Joseph Gordon Levitt was brilliant...The pseudo-science world it sets up actually kinda makes sense and follows logical processions in how it's meant to work. I don't THINK there are any plotholes....

ON MOTIVATION FOR DOING IT.

The pharmacist says that Cobb has offered him his entire portion of the money which suggests they're getting paid handsomely.

I love how the idea of deeper sleep levels suggests a longer period of time passing and how that ties together. With regards to the ending.

The top spinner was just about to fall it seemed, definitely wobbling more. However, we don't know how long he was away but his kids looked the same age as they seemed from the back in his memories...Of course we never saw their faces.

My wife said that maybe he was choosing not to see their faces until he was willing to accept that as his reality.

Also when he suddenly woke up on the plane again it did link to the stuff earlier of "how did you get here? In a dream you just appear half way through and don't know how it began". That, the top, the kids and everything being a bit "TOO" perfect was smart....Though I like to think it was real...It was real for him I guess (and if not he'll wake up in a few years and be a bit depressed).

I can see why people would be disappointed, but I think I actually preferred it as it was to how it was kind of billed. More intruiging I guess....and yet straight forward at the same time. Just the right amount of weird and out there.

My favourite moment...

Arthur is sitting with Ariadne as the dream people start to pay attention to them. So he tells her "quick give me a kiss" with the suggestion that it'll stop them paying attention to them. So they kiss and she tells him that it didn't work and he just smiles "Yeah, it's worth a shot." Brilliant. Delicate.

[Mysterio2000X]

I saw this movie on shrooms. I should not have.

Awesome movie, though. My favorite of the year so far, though I had absolutely no expectations whatsoever coming into it.. it seems like most of people's problems here is that they simply had their expectations set too high by friends/media/whatever, or were expecting a different type of movie. I paid very little attention to any of the hype or news surrounding this movie because, quite frankly, Nolan + big ass budget + original(ish) concept = I'm sold.

And yes, the motivation for just about all of these characters is money. Do remember that when they're planning on how to get to Murphy in the plane, Kaito says that he just went out and bought the entire airline company, because it seemed neater. Money is not a problem for him at all, and considering the wealth he and his company probably will acquire by Murphy breaking up his dad's company, I'm fairly certainly every single one of them were handsomely paid.

Honestly, the only part I didn't like was the ending. Had the top just kept on spinning, that would have been absolutely heartbreaking and a devastating, but good way to end Leo's story. Having it wobble (the top never wobbled before during dreams, did it?), yet have the movie end before it came to a full stop just seemed like such a cliche. Meh.

Also, I loved how it took like half an hour for the van to go from the bridge into the water. It may just have been the shrooms, but that shit was hilarious.

Edited July 24, 2010 by Mysterio2000X

[zero]

Equal level to The Dark Knight, better than The Prestige and Batman Begins IMO. Inception was fucking amazing, I can't believe how 'meh' people are here. There are no plot holes which is amazing for such a deep story.

I don't think people are "meh" because of perceived plot holes. I'm "meh" simply because it wasn't as good as everyone's hyping it up to be. I certainly didn't see a movie with "such a deep story," I thought it was rather straight forward. Definitely not the mindfuck I expected... a mind-dry hump perhaps.

So how did it end according to you then if it's so straight forward?

The ending wasn't the entire movie, and that's not really what I meant. I went in expecting something David Lynch-esque, not quite that much of a mindfuck, but definitely something that I really had to wrap my brain around. Since you asked about the ending though:

It was deliberately open-ended. Also kinda predictable. A movie about dreams perhaps being a dream itself, or the lead character being stuck in the dream? Not exactly a Keyser Soze moment. "It was all a dream... or was it?" is my interpretation of the ending.

[Farmer Reil]

If you need someone to explain why it took so long for the van to fall off the bridge, you're either being sarcastic or really weren't paying attention. ¬_¬

I got back from seeing this a while ago, and while I wouldn't say it was one of the greatest movies of all time, it was a very, very amazing movie. The complexities and storytelling (while keeping the pace and action-levels near blockbuster levels) was brilliant, as were all the little touches and neat little bells and whistles. I think the best thing about it was how *everything* got explained to the viewer, but not until we'd had plenty of chance to guess/work it out for ourselves, and almost none of it in an obvious "hello, narrator character, here's the story of my life" way like in lots of movies of this type that I've seen.

My favourite little touch being

the freight train that slams through the highway. Gave us just enough time to work out what it represented before telling us in the story.

There was one thing I think might've been a plothole though. I agree there were amazingly few of them for such an intricate story that opens itself up to potentially millions of them, but...

The pharmacist explains that when they're under, their inner ear functions will still work (so they can perceive movement, etc). Which comes in to play with the zero-gravity stuff while the van is free-falling. Also, stuff that happens to your unconscious body can be perceived vaguely by your dreams (as in reality), hence Saito coughing up blood occasionally and flinching in the 3rd level dream whenever the Pharmacist checked his wound in the 1st level. As an aside, for a pharmacist he sure didn't do a lot to help the poor guy. He might've survived longer if anyone had bothered to even attempt to dress the wound during the entire dream. >.<

However, during that sequence in the second level dream when they're all floating, Arthur has to get them into the lift after realising that his planned explosion wouldn't give them much of a kick since they're floating off the floor now. To do this he ties them together and spins them around a lot to get the cables around them all. Why didn't this severely disorient the guys infiltrating the snow-hospital-thing? Even the zero-G itself should've made them feel a bit weird, but being spun around while suspended in mid air would surely do some freaky shit to your dreams?

And also, something I just noticed while typing that last paragraph: Killing someone in a dream wakes them up. I'd assume because being killed is pretty much the ultimate 'kick'. However, causing them agonising pain doesn't. They can't kill themselves due to the heavy sedation required, fair enough... but they can plant explosives UNDER THEIR FEET, and BLOW THEMSELVES UP?! How the hell thick WAS that floor? There seems to be quite a lot of leeway and contradiction between "pain", "kick" and "death".

For another example, if I was dreaming about driving a white van full of unconscious guys plugged into a machine, and unexpectedly got rammed off the road and started careering ass-over-tit down an embankment, I'd probably wake up thinking OHSHITOHSHITOHSHIT! Not calmly wait, crack a cheesy grin and say "Did you see that?!"

It seems that "kicks" only work if you WANT them to. In which case they must know they're dreaming, or how would they know when to 'want' the kick to work?

The whole 'kicks' thing is a grey area. But a film like this is bound to have them.

Oh, and line of the film?

"We'll probably need to buy out the whole cabin, or the plane..."

"Oh.. erm... I bought the airline." *shifty glance* "It seemed...neater?"

Also, was anyone else reminded of a Star Trek Voyager episode about Lucid Dreaming, where Chakotay and the Voyager crew use a lot of Inception's plot points?

Or did I dream that episode? :shifty:

Edited July 24, 2010 by Farmer Reil

[Mysterio2000X]

If you need someone to explain why it took so long for the van to fall off the bridge, you're either being sarcastic or really weren't paying attention. ¬_¬

Who said I needed it to be explained? I just thought it was hilarious that the breaks in ball-busting action were of a slow-mo van that took all of 30 minutes to fall into the water "in real time" (or, well, the 1st level's perception of time).

[Josh]

Just saw it and bloody loved it. To address some discussion points:

- Plotholes. Movies in this genre are pretty much guaranteed to have them. It's amazing that there are surprisingly few, once you get past the initial conceit of the film.

- "It's his masterpiece!" "No it's not!" Does it really matter? Each film he's made (like most films in general) is an independent work of art that must be judged on it's own merits. The only possible exception I would make here is for the Batman films, as they are telling a continuing story (and in that case I'm more tempted to judge the Batman canon as one single work.)

And to jump off of that last point, it seems that shock and surprise were never meant to be this film's calling cards. There were multiple images/story points/questions that came up along the way, and while you were never shocked at their final revelations, you were made to wonder just long enough. Related to this is the ending - it didn't strike me as something meant to be a "twist ending" or anything of the sort. It was merely giving you the ending that the story deserved - while planting a bit of doubt. To paraphrase the film itself (I can't remember the line verbatim), you know where you hope you're going, but you're not exactly sure. So instead of shock/surprise being the calling card, we were given a visually arresting story with themes of "layers", "time", "travel", and "doubt."

I simply won't call it Nolan's best film, the best film ever, the worst ever, a middling effort, etc. I judge it on it's own merits and find it to be a damn fine spectacle, coupled with layered, symbolic storytelling.

[livid]

Saw it last night and I absolutely loved it. And I don't quite know why anybody would've expected a David Lynch-like mindfuck of a movie because this is Christopher Nolan we're talking about here; a guy who's movies are all based on the idea that they're as realistic as possible and that's part of what makes his movies so damn awesome. Also, the dreams couldn't have been too bizarre because the mark had to believe, at some point or another, that they were in reality and not dreaming.

I don't know if it's Nolan's best movie because I've only seen it the one time but it definitely continues his growing legacy as one of the best directors (if not the best) of our time.

However, it's definitely giving Kick-Ass a run for it's money as far as best movies I've seen this year.

[AnnIQ Edison]

I thought you couldn't make the dreams too bizarre because then the sub-conscious would catch on and take you out of the dream.

[livid]

Well, yeah, that too. But I was more referring to the thought that the dreams in general should've been more "dreamy"