The Scottish Football thread

[Lineker]

Think that was a one year only deal. It managed to haul itself back up the coefficients table to get two places again.

[Marcos]

Jelly and Ice Cream when Rangers die, Jelly and Ice Cream when Rangers die!

[El Dandy]

Oh fuck off, so you'd rather Rangers didn't suffer a penalty so that the Old Firm can continue to sour the league?

Even if Rangers ceased to exist tomorrow, what's the worst that would happen? Sure, the league would have to re-negotiate the Sky deal but that deal does fuck all to benefit clubs that aren't Celtic or Rangers.

Just imagine Aberdeen, Motherwell or Hearts coming second and getting a Champions League qualifier. Surely THAT's better for Scottish football than letting a club £50m in debt get away with murder.

Where did I say in my post that Rangers didn't deserve the penalty they face?

Glasgow Rangers is a worldwide name, do you think the likes of Hearts(thats a laugh), Motherwell and Aberdeen are big and good enough to replace the Rangers name? Catch yourself on.

The SPL NEED both Celtic and Rangers for not only Television deals but for representing their league in European Football to try and attract better caliber of players and also to help the league survive. Would a Hibernian fan rather pay their hard earned money to see them play Glasgow Rangers or to pay their money to watch them play a team like St. Johnstone?

At the end of the day, anybody who thinks that Rangers are replaceable are delusional. For the 2011/2012 season, the average attendances for Celtic is 49472, for Rangers its 45842 and for the third highest which is Hearts, its an average attendance of 13545 (source)

[Marcos]

Glasgow Rangers is a worldwide name, do you think the likes of Hearts(thats a laugh), Motherwell and Aberdeen are big and good enough to replace the Rangers name? Catch yourself on.

Maybe not replace but both Hearts and Aberdeen have the facilities and the fan base to make a good start at becoming the next big team in Scottish football were Rangers to die. The fans would flock back if Hearts or Aberdeen were challenging for the title/second place. Hearts in 2005/06 when they finished second were very close to having a sell-out week in week out. Given the European money as well, an Edinburgh or a Dundee United or Aberdeen could really flourish in a division that is not dominated by the Glasgow giants.

The SPL NEED both Celtic and Rangers for not only Television deals but for representing their league in European Football to try and attract better caliber of players and also to help the league survive. Would a Hibernian fan rather pay their hard earned money to see them play Glasgow Rangers or to pay their money to watch them play a team like St. Johnstone?

Because they are doing so well at representing us these days? The game in Scotland needs a major shake-up and this event could be the start for the changes. To answer your question, I think you would be surprised how many would pick the St. Johnstone option. Being a Killie fan I would pick St. Johnstone, for various reasons. Firstly, when playing the Old Firm many fans (the non-OF supporting fans) stay away. This is because of the nature and environment that these games are played in. No-one wants to take their kids to games where "Oooh Aah Up The Ra" or "Up To Our Knees in Fenian Blood" or "Bobby Sands" are being sang. No-one wants to physically and verbally abused at their home matches. I have been spat on, I have been punched, kicked, called a "hun", called a "fenian" these things have only happened at Old Firm vs. Killie games. People can talk about atmosphere and all that the Old Firm fans create, but give me a game against Hearts, Hibs, Dundee United or Aberdeen any day of the week over playing the Old Firm.

At the end of the day, anybody who thinks that Rangers are replaceable are delusional. For the 2011/2012 season, the average attendances for Celtic is 49472, for Rangers its 45842 and for the third highest which is Hearts, its an average attendance of 13545 (source)

Take away Rangers and most of that 45842 will find other clubs to support, be it another SPL side, their local side, junior side. Get rid of the stupid 10 against 2 voting system which allows the Old Firm to veto any changes that are to be made. Allow the SPL to grow in numbers expanding to either 14 or 16. Allow for games such as Dundee vs. Dundee United, Ayr vs. Kilmarnock, Ross County vs. Inverness, Dunfermline vs. Raith to be played in the top division. Games like these would bring back the fans, without the vile chants that are found at Old Firm games.

Call me delusional, but I firmly believe that Scottish football can survive without Rangers.

[MDK]

Glasgow Rangers is a world wide name?

[Gazz]

You say Hearts or Aberdeen will be challenging for the title, they won't, they'll still be 30pts behind Celtic, just that will be good enough for second.

[METALMAN]

Rangers and Celtic depend on each other. The other Scottish clubs can get by perfectly fine without them.

[Gazz]

Rangers have 90 minutes to appoint an administrator.

Congratulations to Celtic for winning the title in February.

[Kaney]

We were going to win it anyway. Bah to this news.

[Lineker]

The administrators running Rangers have said they do not know the whereabouts of £24m which was lent to the club.

The money was lent to the club by Ticketus, a firm which hoped to profit from future season ticket sales.

David Whitehouse of Duff and Phelps said they did not have "visibility" of where the money had gone.

Meanwhile, former Rangers chairman Alastair Johnston has asked the Crown Office to investigate Craig Whyte's acquisition of the club.

He said: "I have today written to the Crown office asking for an investigation into the background surrounding the acquisition of Rangers Football Club by Craig Whyte, and in particular whether there is evidence of fraud."

A Strathclyde Police spokesman said: 'We can confirm that we have been passed information regarding the ongoing situation at Rangers Football Club. This is currently being examined. It would be inappropriate to comment further."

Speaking about the "invisible" £24m, administrator Mr Whitehouse said he believed the funds went through a parent company account rather than the account of the company now in administration.

He added that the administrators were checking with Rangers' former lawyers.

He said the Ticketus debt was not secured against the assets of the football club.

It means the ticket firm is unlikely to be repaid in full should Rangers exit the administration process.

Instead, Ticketus and other creditors would be asked to agree to a Company Voluntary Arrangement (CVA) to receive a percentage of what they are due.

Rangers FC Group, a separate entity from the club itself, remains solvent.

Ticketus loaned Rangers the money in return for flows of future season ticket sale revenue, a primary source of the Ibrox club's income.

David Whitehouse, from administrators Duff and Phelps told a press conference: "Our understanding is that the funds from Ticketus didn't come through the company's account, they went through a parent company account so we haven't got visibility on that.

"Ticketus don't have security on the assets of the club."

Ticketus have refused to comment on the Rangers season ticket deal, citing client confidentiality.

The Ibrox club entered administration on Tuesday after HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC) pursued legal action at the Court of Session in Edinburgh over alleged unpaid VAT and PAYE totalling about £9m.

Rangers are also awaiting the outcome of a tax tribunal over a disputed bill, plus penalties, totalling £49m.

Club chairman Craig Whyte, who assumed control of the club from Sir David Murray in May of last year, was reported on Monday as saying this potential liability to HMRC could reach up to £75m if the club lost the tribunal.

In a statement, Duff and Phelps' Paul Clark said the administrators "are hopeful that a CVA can be achieved and these are measures that are put in place and deal with all of the club's liabilities".

However, Mr Whitehouse said a CVA was not imminent, adding: "We don't know the quantum of HMRC debt yet because clearly the larger tax case hasn't been decided yet."

Mr Clark reiterated the administrators' belief that Rangers "will continue as a football club".

And he said: "We do not think that liquidation and the closure of the club is a likely outcome at all.

"We need to stabilise the financial position and ensure from now on income exceeds expenditure.

"We fully understand the 140 years history of Rangers football club and are taking steps to ensure this history will endure."

Earlier, the Rangers manager Ally McCoist and his players were told that an immediate review of staffing was under way.

Job losses seem almost certain but there will be no detail until next week at the earliest.

The administrators also confirmed that they were considering several expressions of interest in the club.

[MJB]

Harry Redknapp's got it.

[Gazz]

Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse for Rangers, Milan Mandaric is interested in buying them.

[METALMAN]

:w00t: :w00t: :w00t: :w00t: :w00t:

[Marcos]

[Lineker]

Celtic have scored some absolutely stonking goals against Hibs today.

[Lineker]

Rangers' chairman Craig Whyte has denied trying to make a fast buck out of the club after he took it over. In a statement he said he was personally liable for twenty-seven and a half million pounds in connection with a controversial deal over future season ticket sales. Mr Whyte said the agreement had provided £20m of bridging finance. He also claimed he had offered to pay some of the club's PAYE and VAT bill but HM Revenue and Customs had rejected his proposals. Craig Whyte said if Rangers hadn't gone into administration now they would have done at some time in the future because their losses of up to fifteen million pounds a year were unsustainable. He promised that after the club was re-structured he would not continue as chairman. Instead, he wanted to gift the majority of his shares to a supporters' foundation.

[Lineker]

Craig Whyte has admitted using money from the sale of future season ticket income "to complete the takeover" of Rangers football club in May 2011.

A statement issued by Mr Whyte said Ticketus paid £20m in return for ticket revenues for the next three seasons.

Rangers was forced into administration last week after failing to pay a multi-million pound HMRC tax and VAT bill.

The administrators said there was "widespread concern" about the Ticketus agreement.

The statement confirmed the money allowed his takeover to be completed and provided working capital.

In a separate statement, David Whitehouse from administrators Duff and Phelps, said: "Following information received, it is now apparent that the proceeds from the Ticketus arrangements amounted initially to a sum in the region of £20m plus VAT."

He said that £18m was subsequently transferred to the Lloyds Banking Group, who were owed money when Mr Whyte bought Sir David Murray's majority stake in Rangers.

"The application of the remainder of these proceeds is subject to further examination," Mr Whitehouse added.

The administrators confirmed that inquiries into the purchase of shares at the time of the takeover would continue.

The administrator said: "We are now investigating all the circumstances surrounding both the purchase of the majority shareholding in Rangers Football Club plc and the flow of funds which stemmed from the transaction and were intended to fulfil the purchasers' obligations at the time of the sale."

In his statement, Mr Whyte denied trying to make a "fast buck" out of Rangers while he was chairman of the Glasgow football club.

He said he was personally "on the line" for £27.5m in guarantees and cash, in connection with a controversial deal agreed with Ticketus.

Mr Whyte said: "The arrangement with Ticketus - which was a three-season deal not four, as has been reported - was originally to provide additional working capital as had been the case previously under the old board.

"My corporate advisors came to me with the proposition that it was entirely possible, as well as highly beneficial, to negotiate a deal with Ticketus that would allow us to complete the takeover and maximise working capital for the club's day-to-day business."

The multi-million guarantees made by Mr Whyte, he said, showed he was committed to Rangers' future.

He added: "By any stretch of the imagination that is a very substantial commitment to the football club of which I have been a supporter since I was a boy and dearly wish to see through this crisis so that Rangers emerge as a financially fitter and stronger institution.

"I am the biggest stake-holder in Rangers and I face huge financial losses personally if the restructuring fails or is not allowed to proceed."

The statement went on to claim that Mr Whyte regretted not being more open about the arrangements he made with Ticketus.

He said, however, that Ticketus may not have been "very happy" if he had breached their confidentiality.

"It also has to be remembered that this was not me working alone and in isolation," said Mr Whyte.

"I hired top-rate corporate, financial, legal and tax specialists to guide me through this process and when you're paying for that kind of advice, it would be daft not to follow it."

Mr Whyte claimed that continuing losses would have meant Rangers going into administration, if not now then "some time in the future".

Looking to the future, Mr Whyte said he would not continue as Rangers Chairman after any restructuring by the administrators.

He said if he emerged from administration still in control of Rangers FC he would give "immediate consideration" to gifting the majority of his shares to a supporters' foundation.

[Lineker]

It looks as if Rangers will be excluded from European football next season even if they finish second. The deadline for them sorting themselves out in that respect is the end of March. That would have a huge knock-on effect for their finances, you would think.

[Matt]

Yeah, it'd be a massive knock to their finances if they couldn't lose to some Scandinavian team in the Champions League 2nd qualifying round.

Thing is, I'm not entirely sure if I'm being sarcastic there

[Lineker]

They'd go straight into the Europa League no? I'm not convinced that Scotland has their second CL place back yet?