NBA Thread 2011-12

[Maxx]

First off, plenty of them are still making money.

Secondly, they should probably be dumping that lawyer after that incredibly stupid comment. These guys get to play a game for a living, yeah that's just like plantation owners. There are thousands of people out of work in the United States right now, they can't find a job that plays $8.00 an hour, much less one that pays $250,000 a year, the old minimum in the NBA. They don't want to make less to play a game for a living, but still 10x as much as a normal person? Fuck it then, don't make a deal, go get a real job like everyone else. They're not plantation workers, they're not slaves, they're spoiled idiots, completely out of touch with society. Their behavior and comments in all of this are insulting to people who actually have to work to make a living.

[Quom]

Except they have been illegally locked out. But yes, fuck them for being highly specialised workers in a specialised field. Fuck them all right to hell.

I'm sick of the sour grapes, it's not their fault they work in an industry that pays well. If you had spent a large amount of your childhood training you could have made it, or if you wasted the same amount of time reading books on topics you could have ended up a doctor/lawyer/whatever.

They aren't striking for better conditions, they've been locked out because the owners who made their money in a capitalist society cannot control themselves in micro-capitalist situation. There is nothing forcing the owners to pay the wages they pay. The minimum basketball wage isn't exorbitant. It's that the owners are silly enough to pay non-impact players over the odds because they can't help themselves. In a business if you do that you go broke.

[Benjamin]

I'm pretty sure most of them make a lot more than 100% than the average person.

[SeanDMan]

What does that matter? If you went to work and your boss had locked the doors and said you won't be going in unless you take a 20% paycut, wouldn't you be pissed?

[Quom]

I'm pretty sure most of them make a lot more than 100% than the average person.

Not by that much, the average US wage is 45K, average NBA wage is 5.15million. I'd imagine the median NBA wage would be much lower. But meh It's not really relevant.

[SeanDMan]

Well, the minimum wage is $250,000, someone said. So yeah, over a 100% increase.

Regardless, you have to throw out the dollar values and think in terms of how every other business operates. Sports are the only environment where, for some reason, the dick boss locks out all his employees and lets them starve unless they're willing to take massive paycuts, and SOMEHOW they're the good guy.

[Quom]

Well, the minimum wage is $250,000, someone said. So yeah, over a 100% increase.

Regardless, you have to throw out the dollar values and think in terms of how every other business operates. Sports are the only environment where, for some reason, the dick boss locks out all his employees and lets them starve unless they're willing to take massive paycuts, and SOMEHOW they're the good guy.

Hang on I was thinking totally wrong. For fuck only knows what reason, I was basing it off 10% times 10% = 100%. So like 5 million divided by 10%, divided by 10% equals 50K. I used to be good at maths. I so shouldn't have stuck the % there and I would have been right. I meant it's 100 times the average wage. Well this is all a bit embarrassing

[Benjamin]

What does that matter? If you went to work and your boss had locked the doors and said you won't be going in unless you take a 20% paycut, wouldn't you be pissed?

Never thought of it that way, I see your point now.

Still think that the dollar values should be taken into consideration, though.

[SeanDMan]

I don't.

Yes, they get paid too much, and yes, they should be paid less, but let's not forget whose signatures are on those paycheques. In any other industry, a company locking it's doors and forcing it's employees out of work because they spent too much money would be seen as bad management and bad ownership, but somehow with sports, it's the employee's fault that they signed deals they were offered, because somehow they should have known that wanting to be paid would cause some multibillionaire to become a multimillionaire instead.

It's absurd. Nowhere else do we forgive the awful fiscal mismanagement of organizations as we do with sports.

[Quom]

Why? It's a billion dollar business. That's like saying gold is too expensive because to you it seems expensive. The fact is there are minimal teams and minimal players which generate all of this cash, as such each individual element is rare and valued as such.

You don't buy a sport's team to make money. You buy it because you either love the sport or to show off. Being an owner should be seen as a luxury, there are only 30 teams in the whole of the NBA, if they can't find 30 men with a bankroll to lose a minimal amount of money, or smart enough to make money from the business, I'd be amazed.

I also can't see why it's the players fault that it's hard to make money in the smaller markets. Either those teams should be cheaper to purchase based on that, or there should be a better tax system where the big team owners support the smaller team owners.

None of this has a thing to do with the players. In a free market it's up to the market to determine a price. If the owners can't control themselves from paying over the odds then that's their issue, not the players. If they don't like it then sell your team and go back to doing something you are capable of. It's like gambling away all of your money on the stock market and then complaining that you're broke and how it's unfair.

[SeanDMan]

Also, the NBA owners aren't losing money.

[Quom]

It seems not. But even if they are it's not the players fault, it's their fault for being too competitive and being willing to fund the purchase of players who aren't worth the money. Doesn't Oklahoma have one of the cheapest rosters?

[Maxx]

Why? It's a billion dollar business. That's like saying gold is too expensive because to you it seems expensive. The fact is there are minimal teams and minimal players which generate all of this cash, as such each individual element is rare and valued as such.

You don't buy a sport's team to make money. You buy it because you either love the sport or to show off. Being an owner should be seen as a luxury, there are only 30 teams in the whole of the NBA, if they can't find 30 men with a bankroll to lose a minimal amount of money, or smart enough to make money from the business, I'd be amazed.

I also can't see why it's the players fault that it's hard to make money in the smaller markets. Either those teams should be cheaper to purchase based on that, or there should be a better tax system where the big team owners support the smaller team owners.

None of this has a thing to do with the players. In a free market it's up to the market to determine a price. If the owners can't control themselves from paying over the odds then that's their issue, not the players. If they don't like it then sell your team and go back to doing something you are capable of. It's like gambling away all of your money on the stock market and then complaining that you're broke and how it's unfair.

:lmao:

Some owners buy teams specifically to make money. The industry works in such a way that you can make millions without even attempting to field a competitive team.

[naiwf]

Most of the owners became billionaires because they actually like making money and are generally good at it. I know that the average fan would prefer that the owners lose money hand over fist, just as long as their team is a championship contender, but that's not how it works. For every Charles Wang who is just pissing money away as the owner of the Islanders, you've got a bunch of Donald Sterlings out there whose only concern is turning a profit and it doesn't matter if everyone thinks he's the worst owner in pro sports. The NBA has been a league of have and have nots since the '80s. The problem now is that the have nots are losing money and if they all sell off their teams you won't have a league. As much as the media focuses on Boston, Chicago, Dallas, LA, Miami and NY you can't have a 6 city league these days.

[Maxx]

Rick DiPietro was a sound investment!

[Quom]

Which again has nothing to do with the players. It's the NBA who have decided to arguably over-expand. I also can't believe that these savvy owners aren't capable of foreseeing what they're buying into. They choose to enter the market and then try to alter how the entire market works to suit their needs. This is an unrealistic expectation.

It's like buying a farm: you choose the location of the farm and pay what you think is a fair price based on this, you then control the animals you buy, the price you get for selling them etc. You can't turn around and suddenly start moaning that the price of cows is too expensive and you are going to stop running your farm and have a cry until someone comes along and fixes it.

My solution is that the NBA should look for new owners who are willing to forcibly buy out the owners who no longer wish to abide by the current system.

The fact is there are more than 30 potential owners, their isn't a huge amount/any scab labour who can come in and play at the same level as an NBA superstar.

If I was the union I'd start doing this process myself and try and work out the feasibility and legality of setting up a new league separate from the current system. I disbelieve that these are the only people with the money to support a basketball team. I also imagine that even if it only ends up being in major market towns there would be arenas that don't have a current NBA agreement who would allow them to play. Fuck play in colleges for a season whilst you work it out.

At the end of the day I cannot fathom how 30 men (who as stated ad nauseum can be replaced) are dictating the market to players who can't be.

It's the only thing I will say about the players being unintelligent. At the end of the day they're the ones who sell tickets and are the business. They don't actually need the NBA to do it.

I still believe that at the end of the season every player should have hopped on a plane and gone overseas to play. It would have sent a very strong message to the owners about them not bothering to wait around and bargain themselves down.

Edit. Maxx I totally disagree. Buying a sports team is a vanity purchase plain and simple. You buy it for the prestige and the wank factor. Sure the team may make money, but there are arguably easier ways to do it. It's like buying art. I'm in complete agreement with Bill Simmons on the topic.

[naiwf]

Your analogy doesn't work. If I buy a farm and you buy a farm we are competitors. My success is completely independent of what you do and vice versa. We are substitutes for one another. If I buy an NBA team and you buy an NBA team we're competitors, but also complements because we're working together to set the league structure in CBA negotiations. When a team goes under (Hornets) they get purchased and run by the league because losing a franchise is a catastrophic failure. If one farm goes bankrupt, no one else is going to help them out because it's in your best interest to be rid of a competitor.

You would have a MUCH easier team filling the NBA with 450 brand new players than you would filling the 30 owner positions. They are quite literally thousands (if not tens of thousands) of potential pro basketball players who would give up anything to play in the league. The number of people with $400+ million laying around just to buy into the league, is substantially less than 1/15 that number of players. You do NOT need to be a superstar to play in the NBA. You DO however need roughly a billion in net worth to own and operate an NBA team.

If the league raided all of the pro leagues, undrafted free agents etc. and put a product on the court by January 1st, 2012, the union would cave by January 8th. It would take you years to ever find enough guys to buy into a broken NBA financial system.

[Quom]

I think the union would wet themselves laughing. I'd imagine it would be as successful as the XFL was. People don't watch the NBA because it's the NBA. They watch the NBA because it has the best players in the world. If they are playing somewhere else that's where the eyes will go.

[naiwf]

I think the union would wet themselves laughing. I'd imagine it would be as successful as the XFL was. People don't watch the NBA because it's the NBA. They watch the NBA because it has the best players in the world. If they are playing somewhere else that's where the eyes will go.

I think the owners would wet themselves laughing if the union ever tried to organize its own league. They couldn't even put together a 6 game "world tour" without all of the superstars canceling. Kobe, LeBron and the rest can all go play for the same team in the same league and they would all come sprinting back the day the lockout ends because all of the money and fame is tied up in the NBA and its TV deals.

Another critical difference between the NBA and NFL is roughly 38 players per team on the roster and the NFL has two more teams on top of that. It would be easy to fill a league of 450 basketball players and not scrape the bottom of the talent barrel. It's not so easy to find almost 1,700 football players just to put on the active rosters. There are probably another 100+ guys sitting on injured reserve by the end of the year.

[Lint]

double post