2012/2013 MLB Offseason Thread

[Mofoticon]

It's really not that difficult to grasp that Cabrera won because his team actually accomplished something. You can talk about WAR all you want but if it doesn't lead to that team to having enough wins to make the playoffs, nobody will care that much.

This argument is incredibly flawed, the Angels won more games than the Tigers...it's not their fault they played in a better division.

In addition, the Angels were 6-14 without Trout and 83-59 with him, best in the AL.

[livid]

It's really not that difficult to grasp that Cabrera won because his team actually accomplished something. You can talk about WAR all you want but if it doesn't lead to that team to having enough wins to make the playoffs, nobody will care that much.

This argument is incredibly flawed, the Angels won more games than the Tigers...it's not their fault they played in a better division.

In addition, the Angels were 6-14 without Trout and 83-59 with him, best in the AL.

Yes because Trout is the ONLY reason why they turned it around.

Look, he had an amazing year and had he won it, I wouldn't have bat an eye but the bottom line is, this is how MVP races are decided. It doesn't matter if the other team had a better record, what matters is that Cabrera was the best offensive player on a team that accomplished more than Trout's team did and until sportswriters change the way they vote, it won't change. Cabrera had a great year and did something somebody hasn't done in 45 years, it shouldn't come as a shock that the writers would think it's a big deal.

[Mofoticon]

It's really not that difficult to grasp that Cabrera won because his team actually accomplished something. You can talk about WAR all you want but if it doesn't lead to that team to having enough wins to make the playoffs, nobody will care that much.

This argument is incredibly flawed, the Angels won more games than the Tigers...it's not their fault they played in a better division.

In addition, the Angels were 6-14 without Trout and 83-59 with him, best in the AL.

Yes because Trout is the ONLY reason why they turned it around.

Look, he had an amazing year and had he won it, I wouldn't have bat an eye but the bottom line is, this is how MVP races are decided. It doesn't matter if the other team had a better record, what matters is that Cabrera was the best offensive player on a team that accomplished more than Trout's team did and until sportswriters change the way they vote, it won't change. Cabrera had a great year and did something somebody hasn't done in 45 years, it shouldn't come as a shock that the writers would think it's a big deal.

Cabrera is the ONLY reason they made the playoffs?

It doesn't come as a shock that they voted him MVP, but it is a disappointment after the progress that has been made in these awards (such as Felix deservedly winning the CY Young with a 500 win-loss). Trout had the resume to win this award unanimously and it is a shame that this all time best season by him wasn't rewarded with the MVP.

Edited November 16, 2012 by Mofoticon

[gunnar hendershow]

I agree, Cabrera did play around better hitters. In fact because of this he should split the MVP award in half and give it to Austin Jackson since without him getting on base he wouldn't have won the Triple Crown. Hell, let's give Austin one of the crowns too. Without him that wouldn't have happened either.

Nobody's disputing that Cabrera didn't have a great season. But Mike Trout had the type of season we'd tell our kids about. As I said, it was the single most valuable performance by an offensive player in the AL since Cal Ripken in 1991. For those who don't know, that team finished 67-95 but the MVP went to the best player in baseball that season. The old writers will eventually stop voting, and eventually smarter, wiser voices will help determine true value.

[naiwf]

Cabrera had a great year and did something somebody hasn't done in 45 years, it shouldn't come as a shock that the writers would think it's a big deal.

Trout had a great year and did somethings that nobody has ever done in the history of baseball. I'm not going to argue that Cabrera was undeserving, but Trout put up comparable offensive numbers, played better defense, was a better baserunner and helped turn his team's season around. It's hard to argue that Cabrera was more "valuable" with all of that in mind.

[Ananas]

Cabrera had a great year and did something somebody hasn't done in 45 years, it shouldn't come as a shock that the writers would think it's a big deal.

You know how many baseball players other than Trout have had 30 home runs, 45 steals and 120 runs in a season? None.

[Blaze09]

First off, #SuckItSabermetrics

If you want to say Trout should have won because of the reasons Mofoticon listed (aside from the fact that Miguel's defensive season was not that bad), I would agree 100%

Now if you're just using WAR as the end all, then I can't agree with that.

Plus, you all do realize that the people voting for these awards are a bunch of old heads.

[The Red Reuben]

Melky coming to Toronto!

What an offseason. :D

[Ananas]

First off, #SuckItSabermetrics

If you want to say Trout should have won because of the reasons Mofoticon listed (aside from the fact that Miguel's defensive season was not that bad), I would agree 100%

Now if you're just using WAR as the end all, then I can't agree with that.

Plus, you all do realize that the people voting for these awards are a bunch of old heads.

WAR is just a composite stat that should never be used as a catch-all argument except maybe for trying to calculate the worth of contracts (and even that isn't perfect). But the thing is that it's a composite state based on a lot of much more tangible stats that paint a more accurate picture. Trout had a slight edge in making it on base, Cabrera had a clear but not overwhelming advantage in hitting for power. Cabrera had 62 more total bases, Trout had 45 more stolen bases. Cabrera made 56 more outs, and although this comes over 58 more plate appearances the same argument can be made to somewhat muddle Cabrera's TB advantage. If you take all these numbers into consideration it's really a toss-up for who provided the most offensive value. Baseball Reference has Mike Trout creating 138 runs, with Miggy creating 139 runs. Incredibly close. But can anyone really make the argument that Trout's defensive superiority, mostly in CF, is actually worth less than 2 runs more than Miggy's average to below average defense at an infield corner? Miguel Cabrera had an incredibly valuable season and is absolutely the MVP in just about any season. But Trout was better - not based on impossible to understand complex formulas that traditionalists find shady. He was better when you take all of the basic stats and do the fairly straight forward math with them. The WAR thing I think is really just a convenient dismissal of Trout because baseball writers FEEL like they should be voting for a Triple Crown winner just because. If Hamilton or Granderson hit 2 more home runs this season I can't help but feel that Mike Trout wins MVP. And that's just silly.

On a brighter note, THE MELKMAN COMETH!

[DYSI]

Listening to ESPN Radio this morning and they made some valid points for Miggy. He hit over .330 during the final two months of the season and helped his team reach the playoffs, where Trout had two of his worst months - and if Trout had played better when it mattered maybe his team would've made the playoffs. With that being said, I don't think Cabrera was the runaway winner but I do think he is deserving of the MVP.

[Mx. Canadian Destroyer]

Melky to Toronto. I love this off season so much. Opening Day is going to be unbelievable.

[naiwf]

Listening to ESPN Radio this morning and they made some valid points for Miggy. He hit over .330 during the final two months of the season and helped his team reach the playoffs, where Trout had two of his worst months - and if Trout had played better when it mattered maybe his team would've made the playoffs. With that being said, I don't think Cabrera was the runaway winner but I do think he is deserving of the MVP.

The only problem with that argument is that the Angels won more games than the Tigers. It's ridiculous to punish a guy because he played in a better division.

I guess Melky's going to bring his PED issues to Toronto so he can take the spotlight off of Joey Bats and Encarnacion

[Toe]

Listening to ESPN Radio this morning and they made some valid points for Miggy. He hit over .330 during the final two months of the season and helped his team reach the playoffs, where Trout had two of his worst months - and if Trout had played better when it mattered maybe his team would've made the playoffs. With that being said, I don't think Cabrera was the runaway winner but I do think he is deserving of the MVP.

The only problem with that argument is that the Angels won more games than the Tigers. It's ridiculous to punish a guy because he played in a better division.

I guess Melky's going to bring his PED issues to Toronto so he can take the spotlight off of Joey Bats and Encarnacion

I might question Edwin, but you have to think that after his HUGE year, Bautista has probably been heavily scrutinized and their hasn't been any evidence of him juicing.

[Blitz]

Get caught cheating. Make $8M.

Makes sense.

[Mofoticon]

Get caught cheating. Make $8M.

Makes sense.

He was in line for a 40-50 million dollar contract before he got caught (most likely), so there's no doubt he cost himself millions.

[gunnar hendershow]

Rupert Murdoch has acquired 49% of YES, leading to a lot of speculation that he might try to put an offer to the Steinbrenners about buying the Yankees. It's a match made in the deepest, darkest depths of hell!

[Ananas]

Of course based on Rupert's recent fortunes Cashman will likely get caught hacking into Peter Gammons' voicemail and the Yanks will be forced to shut down within a year.

[DMN in the House]

Cuz Fox owning a baseball team worked so well with the Dodgers

[gunnar hendershow]

Cuz Fox owning a baseball team worked so well with the Dodgers

It would work even better in the Bronx! Woo!

C'mon News Corp!

[KJE]

The Blue Jays have rehired John Gibbons as their manager. The media likes the choice but a lot of fans are upset. I personally love the decision.