The Last Of Us II

[Hellraiser]

It's just that none of the evidence you pointed out is very convincing to me. 

[probablyoliver]

And that's the beauty of open-endedness. I don't necessarily agree with the theory I posted, but it's a decent talking point. I have my own thoughts and theories, as I'm sure you do. There's no definitive answer though, and that's totally on purpose and totally rad.

Man, this game is just the best.

[Hellraiser]

The first half was great. The 2nd one not so much. 

[probablyoliver]

I way preferred the second half.

Spoiler

The heart break that came from knowing what was about to happen at the end of each day was amazingly well told. The fact ND managed to not only get me to sympathize with Abby, but also agree with her was insane. Not to mention how much I hated Manny and Owen at the very start to growing so close to them in the second half, to the point that I found myself shocked at their deaths in the second half even though I'd seen them in the first.

Both Ellie and Abby's stories were mirrored so well, both played the protagonist and antagonist so well. I genuinely think the performance from Laura Bailey is amongst the greatest performances in video games ever.

 

[Hellraiser]

10 minutes ago, Ollie said:

I way preferred the second half.

  Hide contents

The heart break that came from knowing what was about to happen at the end of each day was amazingly well told. The fact ND managed to not only get me to sympathize with Abby, but also agree with her was insane. Not to mention how much I hated Manny and Owen at the very start to growing so close to them in the second half, to the point that I found myself shocked at their deaths in the second half even though I'd seen them in the first.

Both Ellie and Abby's stories were mirrored so well, both played the protagonist and antagonist so well. I genuinely think the performance from Laura Bailey is amongst the greatest performances in video games ever.

 

Spoiler

The 2nd half didn't work for me at all. Didn't help that they switched perspectives and turned back the clock on a cliffhanger. All I could think about while playing was whether Ellie would survive the confrontation at the cinema or not. I never cared about Abby or any of the other characters from her group of ex-Fireflies. They were all pretty bland and unlikable if you ask me.

And the entire subplot about her helping Lev and Yara felt completely unnecessary and a pretty blatant attempt to make us sympathize with Abby by mirroring the situation Joel was in during the first game when he was travelling with Ellie. I though we were going to see the impact of Ellie's groups actions on her. But it does take her until day 3 to even realize that Ellie and her group were after her because she is so busy helping the two Scar outcasts. I don't think she ever found out that the rest of her group beside Owen, Manny and Mel had been killed.

The flashback in which we learn that she was the daughter the surgeon Joel killed would have been enough for me to get the point across they were trying to make by having us play as Abby didn't need to replay the 3 days to get that. And I hate that the game is trying to make me feel guilty about stuff I had no control over when I played as Ellie. 

 

Edited July 6, 2020 by Hellraiser

[probablyoliver]

Just now, Hellraiser said:

  Hide contents

The 2nd half didn't work for me at all. 

 

Care to elaborate?

[Hellraiser]

32 minutes ago, Ollie said:

Care to elaborate?

I'm typing the elaboration right now. I accidentally clicked on "Submit Reply" before I finished typing. That is why my reply was so short.

Edited July 6, 2020 by Hellraiser

[Your Mom]

Ollie is the best and I choose to believe the theory he posted no matter how many holes Hellraiser tries to punch through it  

[Hellraiser]

@Ollie My explanation is done. Check my original reply.

Edited July 6, 2020 by Hellraiser

[Your Mom]

The 2nd half of the game

Spoiler

I loved it! Getting to know Abby and her motivations was great and helping the two kids made me feel happy. Like all the angst and not wanting to play Ellie's half went away and I was just having a good time with a positive mission. Not saying Ellie's half was bad because I mean it wasn't it was just different and hard for me to handle mentally.

Except the part where I chased down Norah like a fucking terminator. That was dope  

 

[probablyoliver]

22 minutes ago, Hellraiser said:

  Reveal hidden contents

The 2nd half didn't work for me at all. Didn't help that they switched perspectives and turned back the clock on a cliffhanger. All I could think about while playing was whether Ellie would survive the confrontation at the cinema or not. I never cared about Abby or any of the other characters from her group of ex-Fireflies. They were all pretty bland and unlikable if you ask me.

And the entire subplot about her helping Lev and Yara felt completely unnecessary and a pretty blatant attempt to make us sympathize with Abby by mirroring the situation Joel was in during the first game when he was travelling with Ellie. I though we were going to see the impact of Ellie's groups actions on her. But it does take her until day 3 to even realize that Ellie and her group were after her because she is so busy helping the two Scar outcasts. I don't think she ever found out that the rest of her group beside Owen, Manny and Mel had been killed.

The flashback in which we learn that she was the daughter the surgeon Joel killed would have been enough for me to get the point across they were trying to make by having us play as Abby didn't need to replay the 3 days to get that. And I hate that the game is trying to make me feel guilty about stuff I had no control over when I played as Ellie. 

 

Spoiler

On that first point, I feel like that's the point. I don't think anyone playing didn't have the thought of the reconciliation point in the back of their minds. I know I did, and so every moment through Abby's story I wanted to know just how it ended on day 3. It was a risky move to play the whole build-up twice but it paid off for me big time. Because when Abby infiltrates the theatre at the midway point and say says "you killed my friends" all I could think was "so fucking what, you killed Joel". Then when we get back to that point as Abby, it had so much more weight to it.

I really can't see how anyone could think Manny or Owen were 'bland and unlikeable', both were wonderfully realized and portrayed. Mel was bland and unlikeable, sure, and the likes of Nora, Jordan and the others weren't as fleshed out (nor did they need to be, they were plot devices in the same way Seth was a plot device), but Owen and Manny had such great arcs, and their deaths meant so much more because of the second half of the game.

Blatant or not, the mirroring with Abby and Lev to Joel and Ellie was very, very well done. I think people are quick to forget that Joel before he grew close to Ellie was a violent and despicable thug, unworthy of love or affection. But he grows into someone who's adored because of how much he cares for Ellie. To not give Abby the same benefit because she killed Joel is totally missing the entire point of not just this game, but the first one. Also the Lev/dead name/seraphite story was told so well and was so very human. It was a subplot that needed to be told, and will be remembered for how well it portrayed the story of a young man coming to terms with who he is.

If Abby knew Ellie was coming from the start of day one, I don't think the reconciliation would have been anywhere near as powerful. The whole point of Abby killing Joel was that it was the end of that chapter of her life, and it should've been the end of it for Ellie too. Abby's claim in the theatre of 'we let you live and you wasted it' was so very true, and also so very near-sighted from Abby. She thought her revenge was justified, and then she goes back to living her life, totally unaware that every action causes reaction, and killing Joel like she did just forced Ellie into the same spiral of hatred that Abby herself was in. She shouldn't have known Ellie was coming because by all accounts, Abby thought that story was over. So the dramatic irony of playing as someone who's totally unaware of what's happening (sometimes just minutes away) was superb.

Finally, if it was just the flashback to her Dad, the whole final chapter in Santa Barbara wouldn't have been anywhere near as crushing as it was. The whole way though I was just begging for Ellie to let it go, because the longer she went, the less human Ellie was becoming, and I just prayed she'd let it go like Abby did in the theatre. If we hadn't walked a mile in Abby's shoes, I don't think the gravitas of that final confrontation on the beach would've been anywhere near as consuming.

Far be it from me to say you shouldn't dislike this game, it's totally subjective, but to love the first half and then hate the second for what seems like no more than 'I wish I was still Ellie' feels like you may have missed the boat a little.

 

[Hellraiser]

On 06/07/2020 at 15:52, Ollie said:

  Hide contents

Far be it from me to say you shouldn't dislike this game, it's totally subjective, but to love the first half and then hate the second for what seems like no more than 'I wish I was still Ellie' feels like you may have missed the boat a little.

 

Spoiler

I don't know what else to tell ya other than that the entire time I played as Abby I just wanted her part to be over. 

Also Manny was a sleazy womanizer and Owen was a bastard who cheated on his pregnant girlfriend. 

Also the final chapter in Santa Barbara dragged on for way too long. By the point I finally got to the Rattler HQ I just wanted the game to be over. They could have cut the majority of that chapter and it wouldn't have made the game worse. 

 

Edited July 8, 2020 by Hellraiser

[Bobfoc]

Spoiler

If we're talking about unlikeable characters, Ellie is absolutely one of them.

 

[Ruki]

I just finished up at the aquarium. 

She killed a pregnant woman! Then Abby killed Jesse

but then Joel killed Abby's dad! Ahh!

[Arjen Robben]

Something I find an interesting choice about the game, having played it through twice now.

Spoiler

Ellie never actually learns the reason that Abby killed Joel does she? As far as she knows, Abby killed Joel because he stopped them from using Ellie to create a vaccine and Abby just never corrects her on that.

I thought it was an interesting choice because they could have probably wrung a lot of melodrama out of this big moment and big reveal of Abby telling Ellie the actual reason, but they just never did, like Abby would rather let Ellie come to her own reasons for why Abby did what she did rather than retread ground that is obviously still raw.

 

[Benji]

22 minutes ago, Arjen Robben said:

Something I find an interesting choice about the game, having played it through twice now.

  Hide contents

Ellie never actually learns the reason that Abby killed Joel does she? As far as she knows, Abby killed Joel because he stopped them from using Ellie to create a vaccine and Abby just never corrects her on that.

I thought it was an interesting choice because they could have probably wrung a lot of melodrama out of this big moment and big reveal of Abby telling Ellie the actual reason, but they just never did, like Abby would rather let Ellie come to her own reasons for why Abby did what she did rather than retread ground that is obviously still raw.

 

Spoiler

I think Abby - rightly or wrongly - knows telling her wouldn't matter, in the same way it didn't matter to her what Joel's reason was for killing her own father, Ellie wouldn't care about the reasons Abby killed her father figure.

 

[Ruki]

Found the first part of the game that's really pissing me off. Hospital visit part 2.

fuck the zombie blob thing. At first it was scary, now it's annoying. I can't see where I'm going so I get trapped in a corner and killed.

[Kaney]

Without spoiling anything, whats the halfway point of the game? I keep seeing people talking about the 2nd half behind spoilers and don't want to click anything before I should.

I'm just at

The end of Seattle day 2. Hillcrest was a pain in the ass. My resources can't afford for me to be as bad at stealth as I am. Those fuckin dogs are a bigger pain in the ass than the infected.

Story wise I'm liking it so far. I feel dumb for not expecting Joel's death so soon. I don't like Dina for some reason. Its not helping that shes twice stole my fucking cover in the same encounter and let me get shot half a dozen times before she moved or tried to help out. Not enjoying the interactions as much as I did in the first game but I guess she'll grow on me.

Is there a setting anywhere to stop Ellie from changing guns on her own? Several times I've been speaking around with a silenced pistol and she's swapped to the rifle with no input from me.

[Hellraiser]

5 minutes ago, Kaney said:

Without spoiling anything, whats the halfway point of the game? I keep seeing people talking about the 2nd half behind spoilers and don't want to click anything before I should.

 

End of day 3. 

[Rocky]

Played for 10 hours straight on release day. Loved it so far. Haven’t gone back to it yet 🤷🏼‍♂️