The Last Of Us II

[Ruki]

I'm right at the end I think..... i don't wanna keep going

I'm at the cross point in Day 3. I'm controlling Abby. I don't want Ellie or Dina to die. Tommy's dead, Jesse's dead, Yara's dead, Manny's dead, Joel's dead, Alice is dead.... everyone is fucking dead!

[Ruki]

Oh. Apparently I'm not done yet.

[Ruki]

I cried a bit.

[Kaney]

Just finished this. Not really sure how I feel about it. Like Ollie said, might need to sit with it a while but yeah. As a game it was really good for the most part, the story wasn't what I expected (or wanted maybe?) but they told the hell out of it. ND are fantastic at imbuing scenes with an amazing amount of emotion, I just think some parts of the story didn't land for me. I think I still prefer the first game by a decent margin.

[probablyoliver]

Turns out I really liked The Last of Us Part II.

[Bobfoc]

Now tough guys can call you a cuck in the streets.

[probablyoliver]

6 minutes ago, Bobfoc said:

Now tough guys can call you a cuck in the streets.

Cuck in the streets, cuck in the sheets.

[DavidMarrio]

On 06/07/2020 at 14:04, Ollie said:

I way preferred the second half.

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The heart break that came from knowing what was about to happen at the end of each day was amazingly well told. The fact ND managed to not only get me to sympathize with Abby, but also agree with her was insane. Not to mention how much I hated Manny and Owen at the very start to growing so close to them in the second half, to the point that I found myself shocked at their deaths in the second half even though I'd seen them in the first.

Both Ellie and Abby's stories were mirrored so well, both played the protagonist and antagonist so well. I genuinely think the performance from Laura Bailey is amongst the greatest performances in video games ever.

 

I've just finished the game myself. 

Spoiler

I agree with your take on this @Ollie and I dug how they switched the perspectives round. You're doing the first half of the game as Ellie hell bent on revenge no matter what, even when there are instances of ideally turning back due to ongoing developments with Dina etc. 

The second half of the game is my favourite half really. Learning Abby's story and learning about her and the likes of Owen, Mel etc and learning about their motivations, learning more about there characters. You automatically focusing on Abby as this tough badass bastard when you're going through as Ellie but during Abby's half you learn actually just how vulnerable she really is and you start to think Ellie has gone so far down the path of wanting revenge and it's a question of whether she can stop herself falling completley off the track...Even when she has a happy family situation going on and has a chance to move on she just can't. 

I saw a good comment about the whole game which I agree with. I loved The Last of Us 1 but a lot of games can kinda feel like a "movie game" which Unchartered sometimes feels like. But by flipping the perspectives it's challening your own views and esentially by playing both sides you're hunting yourself down as part of a cycle for revenge. I liked the ending, I didn't want Ellie to get comeuppance and I didn't want Abby to kill Ellie. I think as well the scene with returning to the farm is quite open and it allows for your own interpretations. Have they all returned to Jackson and Ellie is returning because of Joel's stuff being there? Has Dina left with the baby? 

 

 

[Roster Depth Sicko No. 2]

Had my girlfriend playing the first one recently, I've put aim assist on, easiest setting so there's loads of ammo spawns, but she keeps forgetting to use the d-pad to actually select them so has got as far as Bill's Town basically just bare knuckle brawling everything that isn't a clicker to death.

The absolute joy on her face when she got the upgraded melee weapon just before she finished playing makes me think this likely to continue.

[Benji]

2 hours ago, Jericode said:

Had my girlfriend playing the first one recently, I've put aim assist on, easiest setting so there's loads of ammo spawns, but she keeps forgetting to use the d-pad to actually select them so has got as far as Bill's Town basically just bare knuckle brawling everything that isn't a clicker to death.

Most fun way to play tbh, barring the absolute hardest difficulty.

[Nerf]

Finally finished this last night. Incoherent thoughts incoming:

Spoiler

Well, I fucking loved it. I didn't expect to love it. The first half was, to me, really tedious and is part of the reason it took me over a month to finish. I, too, was consumed by my thirst for Abby's blood. I, too, rolled my eyes when I realised I had to play as that bitch for a significant length of time. And then... the masterstroke happened. I learned to sympathise with her. Having completed the game, I have all these existential moral questions about the greater good, shades of grey, and individual perspective, which really is just compounding how the first game ended in many ways. The parallels are so, so intense. The juxtaposition of Abby sparing Dina after Ellie had (unknowingly) killed Mel was so harrowing.

I feel like a lot of the criticism this game has basically been "but why isn't this particular thing black and white?" I think a lot of it is driven by nostalgia for Ellie as a character, and completely missing the point that this game is many things, and one of them is about Ellie's gradual loss of innocence as she falls deeper into her quest for vengeance. There's a certain irony in players being unable to look past Abby killing Joel given the entire narrative of the game. Also, a lot of pearl clutching over things like Abby and Owen's sex scene, Lev's entire arc (both his existence and the way he is regularly dead named), a lesbian romance etc; which, given the content of literally the rest of the game, those things are really where you draw the line?

That said, there are quite a few things that didn't hit. Gameplay has always been a weak point of Naughty Dog games, and this is no different. I spent a large part of the first half actively hating Dina due to the sheer number of times she body blocked me out of cover and thus giving our position away. I agree that there are pacing issues in the second half, and I actually think this could have been solved by ending the game when Ellie leaves for Santa Barbara. There could have been enough content there for a third game, or at least a DLC chapter. The Rattlers are intriguing enemies that never truly get explored, and the final fight scene with Abby felt too soon after their first encounter. Santa Barbara in general felt very rushed, which makes sense given they rewrote the ending fairly late on, I guess. It is what it is.

Otherwise, all the major story notes absolutely struck me in the way they were intended to. Once the game finished, I was left feeling utter despair and had to lie on the floor cuddling my dog while the end credits rolled. It's bleak, but it's supposed to be, which is why I don't want to buy into the theory that Ellie and Dina are fine. The whole point, to me, is that Ellie lost everything (including the ability to play guitar -- her last tangible connection to Joel) in pursuit of revenge. I do hope and think Abby and Lev are okay, though. The way the game manipulated my feelings throughout was nothing short of genius, and its ability to completely flipping my perspective is such a storytelling success. There are many things to dislike about this game, but for me, the story isn't one of them. It's not perfect, and it wasn't the perfect game I thought the first was after playing it, but it's a top tier effort of this gen. Probably an 8/10 for me.

 

[Baddar]

I finished the game!

I love the way ND tells a story within their games, and the voice acting is always on point. This was no different.

I agree with those that didn't like (a lot of) the 2nd half of the game.

Spoiler

I, too, was shocked to have to take over as Abby on such a cliffhanger, and the first hour or two of her section bored me to tears.

There were parts of hers that were really fun though, and I did warm to it eventually.

And I am glad Ellie didn't kill her tbh. I see things from Abby's side too. I felt bad for her by the end.

Bring on TLoU3, which I'll do my best to play in a more timely manner.

[Your Mom]

Has anyone played this twice? It was a great game but it was so emotionally draining I can't imagine ever playing it again

[Baddar]

I'm not sure I'd want to play some of the sections again. Some were a bit...boring? for lack of a better term. Like, walking around slowly with not a lot going on for 15/20 minutes is fine once, but not so much twice.

I did hear you can do things like playing with unlimited ammo etc in NG+ which could be fun. 

My main aim is to finish Days Gone, which I'm around 70% of the way through, I think. I'd like to get that done too before beginning something else.

[Benji]

Just finished my second playthrough after playing it on first release (collectible run for the platinum). Such a phenomenal game. Playing it with changed expectations makes for basically an entirely different game the second time through. Such a wonderful journey.

Next time I play will be the playthrough I've been most excited for - Grounded. That was an absolute blast on LoU1, and when I have recovered enough to play this again, I hope it will be equally thrilling on LoU2.

[Benji]

Did my grounded run. Tough, but not as tough as the first game. Rat King was expected to be biggest challenge, but managed to get lucky and beat it on third go around by just letting it open up the walls at the start and using it to my advantage.

I will say on third playthrough - I feel like the losses of Lev's mum and sister in quick succession is horribly skipped over. It's my one big complaint in a stupendous game, and I think that the game in general seems to miss the mark on making the most of the secondary characters in a way the first game managed (though the extremely tremendous use of main characters more than makes up for it).

Tough to compare the first and the second, both so good in different yet similar ways.

[Benji]

😢

[Hellraiser]

I'm going to give this another shot. I was down on the game after playing it for the first time and haven't gone back to it since.

[Hellraiser]

So i finally sat down and replayed the game after 3 years and as it turns out, my opinion about it hasn't changed one iota. I still don't enjoy the game

Spoiler

I can't get over the way they killed Joel, how early it happens in the game and how they make me play as his murderer for 40% of the game and expect me to empathize with her. I feel terrible for Ellie as she goes down the violent path of revenge further and further, but I just can't extend the same empathy to Abby. I see all the reasons why I should care about her, how she is completely justified about hating Joel, how in the end she isn't all that different from Ellie and how they probably would have gotten along pretty well if they mad under different circumstances. But in the end, I just fundamentally do not give a shit about Abby or her crew (except for Mel who gets royally screwed over by both Owen and Abby). And I just wanted Abby's part of the game to be over with as quickly as possible like I did during my first playthrough. Making me care about Abby retroactively is just too big of an ask from the writers.

I suppose if they extended Abby's part of the prologue and had me get to know her and her crew properly and explained to me her reason for wanting to kill Joel, his death and everything that happens afterwards would have been easier to swallow. But as it is, the game just isn't for me. I also don't like how relentlessly bleak and miserable the entire story is and how awful the pacing of the game is. And I think the gameplay clashes with the story they want to tell.

I do plan on playing Part III whenever that will be released though.

Edited August 30, 2023 by Hellraiser

[Bobfoc]

20 minutes ago, Hellraiser said:

So i finally sat down and replayed the game after 3 years and as it turns out, my opinion about it hasn't changed one iota. I still don't enjoy the game

  Hide contents

I can't get over the way they killed Joel, how early it happens in the game and how they make me play as his murderer for 40% of the game and expect me to empathize with her. I feel terrible for Ellie as she goes down the violent path of revenge further and further, but I just can't extend the same empathy to Abby. I see all the reasons why I should care about her, how in the end she isn't all that different from Ellie and how they probably would have gotten along pretty well if they mad under different circumstances. But in the end, I just fundamentally do not give a shit about Abby or her crew (except for Mel who gets royally screwed over by both Owen and Abby). And I just wanted Abby's part of the game to be over with as quickly as possible like I did during my first playthrough. Making me care about Abby retroactively is just too big of an ask from the writers.

I suppose if they extended Abby's part of the prologue and had me get to know her and her crew properly and explained to me her reason for wanting to kill Joel, his death and everything that happens afterwards would have been easier to swallow. But as it is, the game just isn't for me. I also don't like how relentlessly bleak and miserable the entire story is and how awful the pacing of the game is. And I think the gameplay clashes with the story they want to tell.

I do plan on playing Part III whenever that will be released though.

I agree with some of this.

Spoiler

I never liked Joel much anyway, so seeing him killed off didn't bother me much. I always thought it was obvious that someone who massacred a hospital full of soldiers and doctors would have some mortal enemies, so the revelation of Abby's motivations for killing him shouldn't have surprised anyone. For that reason, the whole "Actually, the bad guys are the good guys of their own story" angle was completely predictable.

What rather baffles me is that so many people weren't expecting to play as Abby again. You play as her in the very first part of the game, which telegraphed the dual-perspective narrative structure straight away. I was aware that there was supposed to be a big, mind-blowing twist halfway through the game, and it took a few hours before I realised that that was meant to be it.

Rather undermining everything was that I just didn't find Abby and her crew very interesting. Though I never harboured the intended hatred towards her in the first place, I didn't come to find her much more than disappointingly generic. Similarly, Lev just sort of seemed as though he was there., and that was it.

Where I fully agree with you is with the tone. The relentless sorrow verges on obsession. The world itself is fine for me, but it's the constant "Look! You killed someone! Look at the terror in their eyes as you stab them in the neck! This one was a named character! Don't you feel bad now, even though it was literally the only way to advance the story?" routine that makes it feel like misery porn. Given that Naughty Dog made its animators look at real footage of people being executed during development and caused them significant trauma, I suppose it's fitting.

And yes, preaching about the sanctity of human life one minute and then having you mow down dozens of nameless goons the next is a classic case of ludo-narrative dissonance. The game is far from the only one to do it, but it's hard not to judge it more harshly when it's so clearly trying to be prestige drama.

Looking past all the problems I have with the story and characters, it's still a fun zombie game. I don't mean that as a flippant statement because that shouldn't be a bad thing. Then again, Neil Druckmann said that he didn't want the game to be fun, so who knows?