The Mafia Discussion Thread

[-A-]

Yeah, it's exactly the HTTK defence. I think there's a difference between 'can't tell which alignment you are' and 'being deeply annoyed to the point of lynching you whatever your role is.'

[Pesci]

Nono, naiwf is doing it right, we're all doing it wrong.

[naiwf]

Everybody else sucks because they can't tell your alignment? Isn't that the HTTK defense?

No, you guys don't pay any attention to how I play and then determine that I must be town/scum based on how you'd play.

Since the game might last weeks, I'm just going to Faulty Towers spoil what I wanted to say. The fact is that I never would have been lynched in that game on this phase, but I had to ask out because I have to study for an exam that could net me a decent paying NYS job next weekend.

The guy who replaced me got lynched because I voted to eliminate someone who could only *squeak* in a thread. There's no fucking way I make that move if I'm scum. Everyone who's played with me should know that I leave the town crippled when I'm not town, and let the town vote out the best option available. Why would I put my neck out there to eliminate a roleposting Eddie on day 1 if I was scum?

EDIT: I think it's cute that -A- and Pesci both recently posted that their mission was to eliminate big names from games, and named me as someone they wanted to be right about so they could feel good about their ability to read people, but still act like I can't play the game. You guys are amusing when you get defensive over things you know are true.

Edited October 15, 2010 by naiwf

[R.W.]

I think naiwf does play a good game, and does a great job of making himself hard to lynch no matter what side he's on. But he's being a tad selective when he says no-one ever reads him properly - I think Temporal has already shown that's not entirely true

[C-MIL]

My name's not an acronym.

[naiwf]

I think naiwf does play a good game, and does a great job of making himself hard to lynch no matter what side he's on. But he's being a tad selective when he says no-one ever reads him properly - I think Temporal has already shown that's not entirely true

You didn't read me. You read TEOL, and he didn't make it all that difficult I'm surprised I lasted as long as I did.

[Pesci]

EDIT: I think it's cute that -A- and Pesci both recently posted that their mission was to eliminate big names from games, and named me as someone they wanted to be right about so they could feel good about their ability to read people, but still act like I can't play the game. You guys are amusing when you get defensive over things you know are true.

No, I think you're good. Your attitude is hilarious though, and I like riling people up

[-A-]

EDIT: I think it's cute that -A- and Pesci both recently posted that their mission was to eliminate big names from games, and named me as someone they wanted to be right about so they could feel good about their ability to read people, but still act like I can't play the game. You guys are amusing when you get defensive over things you know are true.

That's not really what I was saying. Yes, I think we give big names too much of an easy ride (and that includes you, of course.) I also think you're good, that's not what I'm arguing. The reason I want to go after big names isn't even because I want to feel good about my reads (because even if I'm right and we haven't lynched that person I still feel good.) It's mostly about the other side of avoiding big names - we end up with stupid lynches on easy targets instead.

[Pizza]

Read X-Men(I think) -A-! I did the whole lets lynch a big name instead of a small name on MPH. Then I gave up, we lynched somebody stupid, and both died night 1.

[naiwf]

The reason we give big names an easy/easier ride is because it's a sound strategy.

If my choice is to eliminate a townie who is only capable of posting *squeak* and taking a swing at an RW who could be on either side for instance, I'm going with the townie who can't contribute to my team winning because he can't post anything. RW may end up being scum, but I have a better chance of catching him later on than the *squeaker* does of making the right decision at the end of the game. In Baker's Dozen, I carried adameast to the end of the game simply because I knew I could run him over at the finish, and if you read the last phase of the game it took me all of two minutes to get him to cast the vote that won the game for me. The town had MANY chances to get rid of him because they didn't trust him, but they kept him alive and it bit them at the end. If I'd been town, I would have argued hard to get rid of adam because he was easily manipulated throughout the game.

I'll never understand the people who get mad when the town votes out a townie who isn't going to help them. I understand people think differently and all, but losing a Snoop or a *squeaker* is better than keeping them alive so the scum can pick off the people who are actually a threat to them.

[Pesci]

I'll never understand the people who get mad when the town votes out a townie who isn't going to help them. I understand people think differently and all, but losing a Snoop or a *squeaker* is better than keeping them alive so the scum can pick off the people who are actually a threat to them.

Because you should never vote somebody out who is obviously a townie. It's another number in your favour. It's better to take a swing at somebody else than lynch somebody who seems more and more town the more they post. The aim of the game is to eliminate scum and when everybody just bandwagons a stupid player who's giving off obvious townie signals you're not doing that, and you're giving the scum an easy target to jump on. Good vigilantes always start off attacking the shit players anyway.

[Pizza]

Big names got big because they were good. Ace has been playing for longer than any of us and he's not a big name. (No offense to my favourite scumpartner ever of course). Good players are hard to lynch on both sides of the alignment divide.

Scum will still pick off the people who are actually a threat to them even if you lynch the useless players during the day. Towns have a limited amount of day phases to work with, wasting one on an obvious but useless townie doesn't make sense when there are actually suspicious people about who could turn up scum. And if we had lynched Adameast in Bakers, it would have come down to you, Chimp, and burny or LD, and the same ending would have resulted. From day one it was destined to come down to you and two weaker townies.

[naiwf]

Big names got big because they were good. Ace has been playing for longer than any of us and he's not a big name. (No offense to my favourite scumpartner ever of course). Good players are hard to lynch on both sides of the alignment divide.

Scum will still pick off the people who are actually a threat to them even if you lynch the useless players during the day. Towns have a limited amount of day phases to work with, wasting one on an obvious but useless townie doesn't make sense when there are actually suspicious people about who could turn up scum. And if we had lynched Adameast in Bakers, it would have come down to you, Chimp, and burny or LD, and the same ending would have resulted. From day one it was destined to come down to you and two weaker townies.

Here's an example.

Let's say there's a 7 person town and the seven players are RW, me, you, Pesci, Eddie, Pris and Snoop. I went for aggressive players, a lurker and 2 guys who make weird players intentionally. The scum group isn't as important because we're stuck between voting for Eddie and let's say me for instance, because a deadline is coming and we're the two people closest to the noose. If the town pushes away from lynching Eddie and you go for me instead, the scum will welcome that and I'm out on the first day.

At night, you're now down to RW, you, Pesci, Eddie, Pris and Snoop. The scum will then kill off one of the first three players on this list. So Day 2 begins with you losing 2 of your best townies and still having to carry Eddie, Pris and Snoop which makes the advantage go to the scum for the remainder of the game.

If you lynch Eddie instead, you have RW, me, you, Pesci, Pris and Snoop going into night. You'll still lose one of the first four people on the list which gives you three stronger players and only Pris and Snoop instead.

I know what's preferable to me.

------

I don't care about keeping townies who don't help me figure stuff out. That's why I don't like lurkers or people who claim and vanish as though their job is done. This is also why I end up arguing with other townies fairly regularly.

[Guest Mr. Potato Head]

I would always vote for somebody who might be mafia over somebody who is definitely town. At the end it often comes down to a numbers game and I'd rather have to pick up the slack for a poor town and win than lose because I wanted to get rid of players who wouldn't contribute.

[Pesci]

Don't make me hunt Matt down and get him to bust out some percentages in here. If Eddie isn't just being Eddie (Eddie is hard to argue for, since he doesn't really ever make himself look town ) and this time he's actually done stuff to make me think he's a townie, and I think you're looking scummy, I'll go for you every time. If I don't think you're being that scummy, then it's probably preferable to lynch Eddie, yeah. But I'd hate that situation just as much. If we can't come up with a couple of guys who look scummy over the course of a day phase we're not playing well at all. Give me the choice between two guys looking like townies and I'll always lynch the weaker one, but there's no excusing an opening day bandwagon where everybody jumps on a shit player. I fucking hate those. If they've done something scummy it's fair enough, but come on now, when they've posted their role name, ability and gone to good lengths to prove their innocence, don't keep pushing that shit because you're too lazy to look elsewhere.

Part of why it annoys me so much is because I can usually tell when somebody's giving off townie vibes and I don't get why it's so hard for everybody else. People just don't like to go the obvious route, they're paranoid about being screwed over to the point that they go for more complex routes.

Edited October 15, 2010 by Pesci

[naiwf]

All townies are not created equal. A townie who doesn't vote or say anything isn't worth anything, and it's better to eliminate that dead weight early on if you're in a 50/50 situation or worse. If you don't think so, try to win a game where all the townies left are lurkers and let me know how that works out when you can't get enough votes to lynch scum. It does you no good if there are 8 townies, but only 3 are playing against a scum group of 4-5 active players.

[Pesci]

This is why I don't play games big enough for there to be lurkers any more. They add a whole new dimension that isn't within the spirit of the game. I like to play with active players, and that's not necessarily guys who post 23,000 posts a game like DPS, just guys that come up with thoughts and suspicions a few times a day phase.

[Benji]

I honestly don't get why mafia creators even include those kind of characters, it always seems like an utter waste of space to me and dissuades me from playing the times I've been given it.

[Josh]

What kind of characters?

[Benji]

The *squeak* kind