MMA News and Discussion Thread

[Fitzy]

According to the Wrestling Observer it will be Jackson/Evans in December to get a title shot and Machida vs. someone else (they speculate Rua like Biggz said) before that (September as that is what Machida says).

[ACCBiggz]

Was just coming in to post this --- USA Today is also reporting it, and all signs point to Shogun vs. Machida in September. This is just HORRIBLE for the division.

Rashad/Rampage is a big fight, but the loser is on a losing streak. Stupid. Shogun vs. Machida is another taylor made fight for the Dragon and just seems like the UFC is half-intent on pushing Shogun out the door. If Machida wins both fights then you have three of the promising contenders all losing - two and possibly three all to Machida himself. Who does that leave to challenge? Franklin? Vera? Jones? People who aren't close to a title shot yet and would have to fight contenders like a Rashad, Shogun, etc?

[gunnar hendershow]

Rampage, Shogun, and Evans could all lose their credibility in 205 by the end of 2009. That division's going to end up like 185. They'll just find anyone with a winning streak going and feed him to Machida.

[Asuka's Gonna Kill You]

I'm nowhere near as knowledge as the likes of Biggz with MMA, but will Rashad or Rampage really lose all credibility just through losing another fight? :/

Obviously it wont do them any favours and maybe it's bad in reasons I don't really know about, but I cant help but look forward to Rampage/Evans. It's a fight I've wanted to see for a while now actually. I'll be happy with whoever wins as well. I'm just holding out hope that one of these guys can stop Machida. I know he's awesome and looking like a different talent to anyone in that division right now, but I really got into MMA after the amount of shocks the sport produces and can only keep thinking that one shot can end it all. Of course if Machida does run out and destroy Shogun and then the winner of Evans/Rampage, then things look bad, so I understand that side of things I guess. Maybe I just don't realise how good Machida is, I'm still expecting someone to surprise him, but we'll have to see.

Haven't seen any news, but what's next for Bisping? I ask this because I swear I heard him saying he's next in line for a shot at Anderson Silva for the title or am I going crazy? I know Silva/Griffin is going down (Cant wait for this).

[Thrilla]

Bisping is soon to be ground and pounded into a fine paste by Dan Henderson. Then he'll go back to fighting low level guys on UFC shows in Britain so he can remain relevant in the market before once again trying to move up and once again finding out that he's just not that good.

[Asuka's Gonna Kill You]

I'm not his biggest fan or anything, although I do quite like him. I'm just wondering why he was claiming he had a title shot at Silva? And call me crazy, but I think he'll beat Henderson, but then again I hate the guy, so I would say that.

That said, I don't see Bisping as anywhere near the level of the likes of Silva, which is why I actually asked about him, because I'd see him getting completely destroyed by Silva and almost ruining his career in that single match.

[Fitzy]

I'm not his biggest fan or anything, although I do quite like him. I'm just wondering why he was claiming he had a title shot at Silva?

Because he is delusional?

[Thrilla]

The only interesting thing I see coming out of TUF9 for Bisping is a possible fight with DaMarques Johnson and that is only if DaMarques does well enough to stick around in the UFC after the show and if he can move up in weight class for the fight.

[IAceI]

No sense in ruining Bisping's record just yet, he's the only really British superstar they can use the market him, but there's more on the way. He's got a good gym set up here producing some fighters, once it's a big enough sport over here. Feed him his big guy, let him get pounded into the ground and he's done.

It's just the whole UFC is as much a business as an entertainement sport, if here were American I fear for where he'd be at right now.

[gunnar hendershow]

I'm nowhere near as knowledge as the likes of Biggz with MMA, but will Rashad or Rampage really lose all credibility just through losing another fight? :/

At the least for awhile. If Rampage wins and then loses to Machida, he's wasted goods in 205 for awhile. If Evans loses to Rampage, he's on a 2-match winning streak and will have to fight a lot of lower-level guys to move himself back up. If Evans beats Rampage, then Rampage is a long way from a title shot and Evans either gets another shot at Machida or has to beat another guy and then gets the shot. So basically 205's could very well have a lot of good fighters, but none of whom are looked upon as title-contenders because of their recent results.

[Thrilla]

No sense in ruining Bisping's record just yet, he's the only really British superstar they can use the market him, but there's more on the way. He's got a good gym set up here producing some fighters, once it's a big enough sport over here. Feed him his big guy, let him get pounded into the ground and he's done.

Bisping's 'big guy' just went out of TUF9 sitting on his chair and refusing to come out for the third round.

[bolleje]

Well... i don't agree that the 205-division will become a problem at the end of 2009.

Say Machida remains undefeated, then he gets:

1. Shogun (he allready agreed to the fight and he's probably the only real possibility at this time)

2. Rampage or Evans (Rampage would be better as he hasn't faces Machida yet. Machida dominated Evans so I don't think a rematch would be necessary allready).

Don't forget Griffin Vs Anderson Silva is scheduled. Winner of this one could become the contender for Machida's title.

3. Griffin or Silva. (Silva Vs Machida would be a great match I think, Griffin has never faced Machida and holds recent wins over both Rua & Rampage)

Then, we'll be probably allready summer 2010. Before this time, guys like Brandon Vera, Jon Jones or Luiz Cane can have a streak, guys like Wanderlei Silvan Henderson or Franklin can be back in 205 or UFC can have acquired some new guys... (I don't know if they have history but why is Sobral not in UFC now?). There is also the possibility of a good heavyweight going down (Couture can do it f.e., I think Mir is not thát heavy either). And then there are TUF 8 stars Ryan Bader and Soszynski who are climbing the ladder rather fast...

So, although I also would've preferred Rampage first and then Rua (after another win), I don't think we have to despair for the light heavy UFC-division in the near future...

[Maxx]

Frank Mir walks around at like 260, I'd say he's pretty heavy. I doubt he'll be dropping 55 pounds for a fight at any point in his career.

Edited May 29, 2009 by Maxx

[IAceI]

No sense in ruining Bisping's record just yet, he's the only really British superstar they can use the market him, but there's more on the way. He's got a good gym set up here producing some fighters, once it's a big enough sport over here. Feed him his big guy, let him get pounded into the ground and he's done.

Bisping's 'big guy' just went out of TUF9 sitting on his chair and refusing to come out for the third round.

I haven't been watching, didn't know they were his gym guys either?

Was it one of the Kelly brothers and if not are either of them on it?

[bolleje]

Frank Mir walks around at like 260, I'd say he's pretty heavy. I doubt he'll be dropping 55 pounds for a fight at any point in his career.

Really? Wow... I thought he would be one of the lighter heavyweights... If you compare him to Lesnar, he looks quiet thin :-). To make it even worse for my theory above: I checked wikipedia and Lesnar, Mir, Noguira, Velasquez, Kongo, Carwin, Herring, Cro Cop all seem too heavy to make the transfer... so don't think any real contenders except Couture could make the move :-(

[ACCBiggz]

Let's break this all down one-by-one:

but will Rashad or Rampage really lose all credibility just through losing another fight?

I never said they would lose their credibility, I just said the fight was horrible for the division --- which it is.

Obviously it wont do them any favours and maybe it's bad in reasons I don't really know about, but I cant help but look forward to Rampage/Evans. It's a fight I've wanted to see for a while now actually. I'll be happy with whoever wins as well. I'm just holding out hope that one of these guys can stop Machida. I know he's awesome and looking like a different talent to anyone in that division right now, but I really got into MMA after the amount of shocks the sport produces and can only keep thinking that one shot can end it all. Of course if Machida does run out and destroy Shogun and then the winner of Evans/Rampage, then things look bad, so I understand that side of things I guess. Maybe I just don't realise how good Machida is, I'm still expecting someone to surprise him, but we'll have to see.

Let's start with TUF first. If it had been Lyoto/Rampage then we wait till December to see the fight we all thought was going to happen before Rampage took time off for his injury. That's fine. It gives the other guys in the division time to get some wins, and work itself out for future contenders and leaves us with probably two contenders for 2010.

Now that it is Rampage/Evans we have Lyoto/Shogun coming up in September, which for purposes of this scenario lets say Machida wins, eliminates one contender. Then we have Rampage/Evans winner vs. Lyoto probably at the Super Bowl card or in Columbus. Regardless of who wins if Lyoto beats them they you have eliminated 3/4 of the title contenders leaving only Forrest Griffin who has a very tough fight with Anderson Silva in August. If he gets beat then all four are out of the title picture, and considering we won't get Rampage/Evans vs. Lyoto until 2010 that leaves no forseeable opponent for Machida after that if he wins.

Now to the other point of "Is Machida that good?" You are right in one shot can end it. And Rampage & Rashad have that ability. Rashad also has more tools and is a better athlete which is why he seems like the one guy who could stop Machida (just not in May). However, Rampage and Shogun are tailor-made for his game which is why I can not see them winning. Styles make fights and when you have two guys that fall right into the style that Machida excels at --- you have problems.

Don't forget Griffin Vs Anderson Silva is scheduled. Winner of this one could become the contender for Machida's title.

ONLY if Forrest wins. However, Forrest has a suspect chin and likes to bang. Wrong move against Anderson, and Forrest doesn't exactly have that explosive takedown ability. What will be interesting is to see how Anderson deals with the size of Forrest who is a big 205'r. Anderson Silva, if victorious, will have eliminated a challenger at 205 and will have no desire to fight training partner and friend Machida (Anderson has been asked for around two years about moving up to 205 for a title shot and every time has answered he will not because, "That is Lyoto's title").

Then, we'll be probably allready summer 2010. Before this time, guys like Brandon Vera, Jon Jones or Luiz Cane can have a streak, guys like Wanderlei Silvan Henderson or Franklin can be back in 205 or UFC can have acquired some new guys... (I don't know if they have history but why is Sobral not in UFC now?). There is also the possibility of a good heavyweight going down (Couture can do it f.e., I think Mir is not thát heavy either). And then there are TUF 8 stars Ryan Bader and Soszynski who are climbing the ladder rather fast...

Vera is the only guy, who if gets on a streak, I would love to see Machida fight. I don't think Jones or Cane will be ready by Summer 2010, especially Cane. Bader/Krystof will never see the main eventing levels. Babalu isn't in the UFC because he held on to a choke after the referee tried to pull him off of - David Heath? - and he waited until he was unconsious. That got him the boot. Babalu is irrelevant though, he just isn't that great of a 205'r. Jason Lambert proved that . Wanderlei is heading to 185, Franklin is staying at 205. The winner of that fight is probably one fight away from a title shot in the respective divisions.

Regardless, if Machida goes through Shogun and then Rampage/Evans --- we have a bit of a problem at 205 for a legit contender. As I look through the crystal ball you have to be hoping Vera, Franklin get on streaks and look good, or hope Randy Couture comes down for a shot. Couture vs. Machida would be an amazing fight in my opinion.

Haven't seen any news, but what's next for Bisping? I ask this because I swear I heard him saying he's next in line for a shot at Anderson Silva for the title or am I going crazy?

If I had to guess I would say he might have been misquoted and said something to the effect that if he beats Dan at 100 he's next in line. The winner of that fight will get a title shot.

Bisping is soon to be ground and pounded into a fine paste by Dan Henderson.

I'm picking Dan too, but I think this will be close. I'm not a huge Bisping fan, but he has looked a lot faster and more explosive at 185. I think his speed will be something to watch for against Dan at UFC 100. Should be a good fight.

Bisping's 'big guy' just went out of TUF9 sitting on his chair and refusing to come out for the third round.

That was Bisping's favorite, but since the season has started I picked a winner --- Andre Winner. He was my only prediction. I look for him to win this season in his weight division.

One last note to those who bet: Cain Velasquez is a +170 underdog to Chieck Kongo on BetUS.

[Gene Kiniski]

JBL is moving into the MMA market:

John Layfield, better known to WWE fans as ‘JBL’, has entered into the sport of mixed martial arts. He won’t be fighting, but he’s going to help Kentucky based Vyper Fight League try to make a splash in the sport. “This is an unbelievable sport,” Layfield told FOX Fight Game.

For those who think Layfield has no experience in sponsoring or promoting an MMA promotion, think again. “You can take a carbon copy of the wrestling industry twenty years ago and put it over this,” Layfield said comparing MMA’s current regional status to how pro wrestling was over twenty years ago.

Discussions with local CW and MyNetworkTV networks are on their way with a possible VFL reality show in the works that Layfield admitted would be more like the “TapouT” reality show and less like the UFC’s “The Ultimate Fighter.”

Although new to the sport, Layfield will get help from Bruce Pritchard and Danny Davis, who will also try and use their pro wrestling expertise and make Vyper a success. Layfield is looking to turn the VFL into what Strikeforce currently is, a former regional promotion that is about to sign a deal with CBS and go national.

Layfield did take some time out to discuss the UFC, Dana White and Brock Lesnar in particular.

“Dana White should’ve never booked that fight [between Lesnar and Frank Mir],” the professional wrestler said. “That was the one fallibility that Brock had was he didn’t know submissions. He’s a brute, he was a national champion [in wrestling] but he won it by beating up people. Not even sure he’s a great wrestler, he’s just a great athlete.

“You put him in there against Frank Mir, I would have never done that. I would’ve gave him eight tomato cans in a row, you don’t have to fix them [the fights], but let Brock become your biggest draw. You almost hurt your biggest draw, thank god he came back, at least for Brock and for fans of Brock and beat Randy Couture.”

Source: http://www.5thround.com/05292009/news/3505...r-fight-league/

[Quom]

You can look at it a number of ways: I think Brock was fed to Mir as a way to show him that he was fallible. Didn't Vince try the spoon feed and end up fucking himself over because of it?

You could also argue there was always the aspect that anyone involved in MMA including a large part of the audience wanted to prove that someone from rasslin' couldn't compete.

Finally Mir at that stage was hardly the Mir that was once champion, or the Mir we have seen since, for all accounts and purposes it was a great chance for Lesnar to easily steamroll an ex champ, something he very nearly did.

In retrospect it was a resounding success. Lesnar got beaten as he wasn't complete enough, this validated that MMA was about being more than a monster, but in losing he did enough damage to look a serious threat and was left with a challenge to improve to a degree where he could crush more than just cans.

Compare the ascendency of Lesnar to that of Lashley. I'd never try and argue they were anywhere near being comparable as far as popularity goes, but I think Lashley fighting and losing to an ex top UFC fighter in an exciting fashion would do more for him as far as the public consciousness of MMA fans goes than his current method of racking up wins on small shows. It's robbing him of any rub he had as a pro wrestler and if he loses he runs the risk of looking like a cock who missed the boat in an effort to appear authentic. This is of course ignoring him still dabbling in pro-wrestling which is hardly helping MMA people take him seriously. His fight with Sapp is hardly doing him any favours either.

Edited May 31, 2009 by QuomQuat

[ACCBiggz]

LAS VEGAS – Kimbo Slice, the controversial heavyweight who in 2008 headlined the most-viewed mixed martial arts card in history, will be one of 16 contestants on the forthcoming season of “The Ultimate Fighter,” the Ultimate Fighting Championship’s reality TV series.

Dana White, the UFC’s outspoken president, has repeatedly mocked Slice for his lack of fighting ability. Slice, whose real name is Kevin Ferguson, became a cult figure by competing in street fights that were posted on YouTube. Slice’s “bouts” drew tens of millions of views and led him to turn professional.

He fought for the now defunct Elite XC, garnering massive media attention but getting mocked by White and others affiliated with the UFC for a lack of ability.

White has called him a “joke,” a “bum” and “not a real fighter,” among other less than kind descriptions. He said that Slice would “get murdered if he fought in the UFC” and suggested that his lightweight champion, 155-pound B.J. Penn, would “annihilate” the 230-pound Slice.

The UFC president has repeatedly insisted he would not allow Slice to compete in the UFC unless he won his way onto the show by competing on “The Ultimate Fighter.”

Slice has called White’s bluff and will appear on Season 10 of the highly rated Spike TV series, White has confirmed. Fighters live in the same house and train together, and then fight during the show in a bid to earn a UFC contract.

His appearance, along with that of former UFC light heavyweight champions Quinton “Rampage” Jackson and Rashad Evans as coaches, should guarantee massive ratings.

“It should be interesting, given some of the things I’ve said about him,” White said.

Slice, who has a 3-1 professional record, appeared in the main event of the first MMA card shown on network television in the U.S. when he fought James Thompson on May 31, 2008, on CBS.

Slice won by third-round stoppage in a bout that attracted a record 6.5 million viewers and remains the most-viewed MMA bout in history.

But Slice hasn’t fought since Oct. 4, when he was knocked out by a jab from late replacement Seth Petruzelli, a light heavyweight, just 14 seconds into another fight broadcast on CBS. The plug was pulled on Elite XC, which reportedly lost millions of dollars, in the aftermath of the fight.

White promised “some major surprises” as he announced on a Thursday conference call that Jackson and Evans, each of whom is a former light heavyweight champion, would serve as coaches on Season 10.

He declined to say anything further but urged reporters on the call not to miss media day, which is Tuesday at the UFC Training Center in Las Vegas.

White worked hard to keep Slice’s appearance on the show a secret, hoping to have unveiled him Tuesday. Season 10, which is being called “The Ultimate Fighter: Heavyweights,” was originally slated to feature a cast of eight heavyweights and eight middleweights, but the UFC quietly informed the middleweights who tried out that it was going with an all-heavyweight show.

And unlike in recent seasons, where the competitors had to win a fight to earn their way into the house, there will be no such arrangement this time. All 16 fighters – Spike and the UFC are keeping names of the others a closely guarded secret – will automatically move into the house.

Though White goes to great lengths to insist that nothing on the show is scripted, it’s virtually guaranteed that Slice won’t fight early in the competition. Having him around and alive in the competition is going to keep ratings elevated.

If Slice is able to advance to the live Dec. 5 finale, with a chance to earn a UFC contract with a win, ratings would likely be the largest in Spike history.

There you have it.

[Quom]

Fuck Me. I wonder how much he cost? If he's doing it cheap he's insane. Minus winning or making it to the finals he gains nothing. He's already famous and could afford the training he needs. Only way it works for him is if he does well enough to validate his existence as an MMA fighter, something that he still requires lots of training to become by all accounts. Really don't get where the motivation comes from.