*SPOILERS* The Dark Knight *SPOILERS*

[Thatz]

I think that it would really be rather hard to have the Scarecrow in anything more than another cameo. He's been soundly defeated by Batman already...twice.

[apsham]

I just read this and I NEED to see this on the big screen now, if they have another movie coming;

"This was perhaps best shown in a 1999 issue of Gotham Adventures, in which he tried to refrain from leaving a riddle, but failed: "You don't understand... I really didn't want to leave you any clues. I really planned never to go back to Arkham Asylum. But I left you a clue anyway. So I... I have to go back there. Because I might need help. I... I might actually be crazy."

Ohh, and lines like this work too; ""What's happened to us? The Joker's killing people, for Christ's sake!"

With the focus of the first movie being on fear, and the second movie being on WHAT Batman needs to be, I could easily see the Riddler bringing up a theme for a third.

Edited July 29, 2008 by apsham

[Maxx]

Problem with Riddler is he what threat does he pose? Its obvious no villian is going to pose the same threat to Gotham that The Joker did, but I can't see The Riddler even being close.

People seem to think Black Mask doesn't qualify as a "Freak" which is just stupid. He's had a mask burned onto his face, killed a bunch of people on his way to taking over Gotham's underworld and tortured and killed a Robin with power tools.

There's an even bigger power vacuum in Gotham now. You should have a bunch of small timers fueding over it. Then have Black Mask come in and wipe everyone else and take over. Being that you can't possibly top the threat Joker posed, in my mind the next logical thing would do is to pose a threat to Bruce Wayne himself. Have Black Mask/Roman Sionis also be the head of a major corporation, trying to take down Wayne Enterprises. This allows for a villian to actually have a reason to threaten Lucious Fox and Alfred, the two remaining characters in Bruce Wayne's life that remain pretty untouchable otherwise.

I just don't see Riddler seeming like a threat after what Joker has done. Bane is boring to me, he lacks any real depth because he was created with one goal in mind. Bringing in Azreal would be thousands of times worse than having a Robin, most people have no idea who Azreal is.

[Gabriel]

Isn't that kind of the point though Maxx? Introducing Azrael would allow a lot of room to change things, simply because the fanbase for the character is incredibly small compared to most other Batman characters. Besides... at this point, any future films are going to sell themselves based on the success of the first two.

They could use any character they want to, no matter how big or small, and it won't effect how well the movie does at the box office anyways. A recasted Joker might draw in a few more people who are curious, but that's it.

Besides... Nolan's going for what works best in the universe he's created, and a lot of the more well known characters are going to need major tampering to get them to fit into the ideas.

[apsham]

Introducing Az is just something that doesn't need to be done at this point.. though. As I understand it, his entire point was to act as a replacement shall Batman ever go down, and the way that things were set up in The Dark Knight.. I would agree that this would be the next logical step... but with one of the main reasons for him wanting to hang up the cape gone, AND the way that the Dark Knight ended... just naw, this has to focus on Batman and only Batman as the premiere superhero. Of anything so far, I like Hutch's idea.... if we can throw my Riddler in there as a sub-villian.

[Maxx]

Yeah the success of the two movies will create success for a third, but when did that become an excuse to jam a bunch of crap into the third? That worked out really well for Spider Man 3 and X-Men 3. Nolan clearly really cares about the world he created, I don't understand how people are convincing themselves that he's just going to throw in a bunch of Batman related shit into the 3rd, just because it'll be successful regardless.

There's hundreds of things more closely related to Batman that will be done before they get around to doing Azrael. That character is so far away from what Nolan has created currently that the only way he could be fit in would be to completely rework the character and if you do that, whats the point of even having him?

Could Azrael work? Absolutely, The Sacred Order of Saint Dumas is something I think Nolan would love working with and do great things with. But for the third act in his current Batman work? No, it doesn't fit at all.

People are thinking way to far out of the box when it comes to the next film. Whatever it is, its going to fit in with the first 2 and finish off this first story arc about the rise of Batman and his first few years. The Nolan Crew is on a whole different level than the people behind Spiderman and X-Men and any other super hero movie. The Spiderman trilogy seemed to lose track of time, the X-Men trilogy lost all direction, but neither of those things will happen with this Batman trilogy.

When its done, then you can take the movies anywhere. Go back to one shot stories, introduce all sorts of stuff. But its not going to happen with the third film.

Edited July 29, 2008 by Maxx

[Benji]

Maybe we shouldn't be looking at villains so much as stories, personally I believe some variation of the No Man's Land story is probably the best direction for the franchise to head in.

[Maxx]

All these are good ideas and could eventually work, but I highly doubt they'll be starting a what would essentially be a new series of movies with the third one. It seems way to out of left field for the Nolans to suddenly decide start up something else in the third one when there's still stuff we need wrapped up. I assume the third will be used to answer questions about Dent's fate, and show Batman as basically an outlaw. I figure if they don't use Two Face again, they'll introduce another villian, which Batman will stop and begin his road to redemption.

[gunnar hendershow]

I was watching the movie again on Sunday and something caught my attention. Mike Engel appears to have some sort of sway over Gotham with his media presence, and since Batman saved him wouldn't it be logical for Engel to not really look upon Batman as much of an outlaw. Think what happened with Gordon's son, he doesn't see what Batman is doing that is so wrong and is a bit apprehensive at the idea that Batman is a murderer. I'm thinking that if Engel's in the next movie, he'll play a pretty big role in trying to clear Batman's name.

[Mike Ockizitchy]

I was watching the movie again on Sunday and something caught my attention. Mike Engel appears to have some sort of sway over Gotham with his media presence, and since Batman saved him wouldn't it be logical for Engel to not really look upon Batman as much of an outlaw. Think what happened with Gordon's son, he doesn't see what Batman is doing that is so wrong and is a bit apprehensive at the idea that Batman is a murderer. I'm thinking that if Engel's in the next movie, he'll play a pretty big role in trying to clear Batman's name.

Maybe he'll have Batmans back like you claim and think Batman owes him something? Perhaps he goes crazy down the road and lead into being a villain of some sorts. Of course this wouldn't happen until around the fourth, if they go that far which I think they should. Part of my love for this Batman series is how well written, built up they are. How well they show his rise. I think it should be taken past a fourth and explore past the rise of Batman.

[Thatz]

I think that we'll be seeing quality Batman films for a long time to come, whether or not Nolan continues to direct the franchise or not. I mean, after the success of the Dark Knight, everyone has to realize where the money is at, and that's in the dark, realistic world of Gotham that Nolan has created.

[RoyWill Rumble]

A brief thing about villains, I don't think Hush really works simply for the fact that if you're going to bring in Hush, Poison Ivy has to be included if you're going to follow that story and I don't see her being much of a viable character in a Nolan Batman movie.

Speaking of not viable characters, Robin. I don't think Dick Grayson needs to be introduced, either, because that sets up the expectation of Robin for those who know who Grayson is, and people who don't know the Batman world (a lot of the general populous who gets the basics of Batman, but I doubt would know who Dick Grayson is) would just be confused. So, it's bringing in a rather major character for no real reason. If you hint at Robin, great, but any Batman movie with Robin in it has SUCKED. Granted, they still would have sucked had Robin been absent, but in general, I just don't think Robin will ever work for a Batman movie.

Not to mention, the whole way Batman is portrayed in Nolan's movies (basically, he's Gotham's only hope), again, I don't think Robin would work out at all, so I think having Dick Grayson introduced would be pointless. If he's a major character then you have to hint at Robin, actually have Batman recruit Grayson as Robin (which, as I say, people don't seem to react well to Robin in movies) or have him play a minor character, which would just be silly.

And Nightwing, as badass as he is, is just out of left field. O__o

Edited July 29, 2008 by Will.

[TGC]

You can't do Nightwing right without him first being Robin.

[RoyWill Rumble]

And Robin should not be done, so no much better character - Nightwing.

[GhostMachine]

They should only introduce Robin in the last movie, if they ever introduce him at all. And I mean maybe 3/4 of the way into the film.

Hush and Black Mask aren't really good choices, considering all the other Bat-villains there are that could be used and have been around longer. I'd rather see the Riddler, Man-Bat, Poison Ivy, Bane (provided they use him properly and don't do the broken back bit), Deadshot or heck even the Monk. Just not the Penguin, Mister Freeze (shouldn't he really be called Doctor Freeze, just like Reed Richards should be Doctor Fantastic?), the Ventriloquist or Killer Croc. Hush and Black Mask should only be considered when its down to them, Killer Moth, Signalman, Kite Man and the Cavalier as options.

Catwoman isn't really a problem. So the Catwoman movie bombed? Big deal, since the Catwoman in that movie wasn't the comic book character (and that plus the stupid ass costume that made her look like an S&M freak even more than the costume in Batman Returns is why I think it bombed). As long as they don't use her as a main villain, its not a problem. Hell, they could use her as a love interest who just happens to be a thief, since that's more or less what she's been in the comics, and have her actually help Batman take on the main villain (Batman catches her committing a burglary, fights her, catches her and then has her go undercover pretending to side with the main villain, then helps Batman kick their ass).

[Maxx]

Black Mask predates Bane by nearly a decade.

Hush shouldn't be done because the entire Hush story became pretty convoluted and would never translate on to the screen, there was just way too much going on.

[thatblindgeye]

Maybe it's because i have a soft spot for 'Forever' and "& Robin", actually liking the movies as movies and not necesarily as Batman movies, but I wouldnt mind Robin in a Nolan Batman film. Obviously much later (like the last ever movie if the Batman movies by Nolan go past 3 (which I would like only if the plots are good; just because they may not top Dark Knight doesnt mean there cant be more good ones made) in this new series of movies. I think Nolan would be able to make a great Batman film that included Robin, whether it be a full out movie with Batman and Robin or a movie where the last half hour has Robin.

I dont know, though. I was/am entertained by Batman Forever and Batman & Robin as campy, corny little flicks.

Edited July 29, 2008 by Vitamin E

[GhostMachine]

Black Mask predates Bane by nearly a decade.

Hush shouldn't be done because the entire Hush story became pretty convoluted and would never translate on to the screen, there was just way too much going on.

I know Black Mask predates Bane by several years, but Black Mask sucks.

And there are many reasons why Hush shouldn't be used, but you've listed the main one.

[Maxx]

Aye, Hush has to be the stupidest suggestion I've heard for a 3rd. You'd need to introduce so much crap to make it work. Catwoman, Jason Todd, Tim Drake, Poison Ivy, Huntress, Killer Croc, Superman, The Riddler and Harold or whatever that mute's name was.

[EndOfAnEra]

Couldn't they just bring in Robin as Nightwing though?