The England thread

[brenchill]

Even with my contributions to this thread, having a post which states the only thing wrong with England right now is Tom Cleverley is pretty bad.

And i like Nerf.

I forgot about Danny Welbeck.

But that work rate!

[MDK]

Even with my contributions to this thread, having a post which states the only thing wrong with England right now is Tom Cleverley is pretty bad.

And i like Nerf.

I forgot about Danny Welbeck.

But that work rate!

He did score two goals tho, surely that counts for something?

I just wish we had someone that could swing a cross in.

[Crybaby Bunting]

Players like Adam Lallana, Delph, Westwood, JWP could all be world beaters and have shown they can cut it in the Premiership so why not give them the opportunity to play alongside Gerrard and Lamps now?

Wait a second, Westwood?

Republic of Ireland goalkeeper Kieren Westwood?

Republic of Ireland goalkeeper Kieren Westwood who has played 12 times for Sunderland since 2011?

EDIT: Oh you mean THIS one.

[brenchill]

Delph!

[Nerf]

Not sure what exactly people are complaining about. There's obvious upgrades needed in defense and midfield, but who is there to call upon that isn't already in the England setup?

Point is, the England team is shit. That's because most English players are shit, not because we're overlooking some League 1 diamonds.

[brenchill]

That's it, really.

We aren't very good. The sooner people realise that the better. To suggest we can "play the kids" in any game is just embaressing and ignorant.

[9 to 5]

England aren't shit. San Marino are shit. Why is it when it comes to football, if a player or team isn't Messi or Barcalona they are relegated to being "shit"? England are no great shakes a team but they regularly qualify for tournaments without much trouble. Hardly seems that shit to me.

[TCO]

How exactly have Fabian Delph, Ashely Westwood, James Ward-Prowse and Adam Lallana shown they could be "world beaters"? If world beaters means slightly above average Premier League players then, yeah sure.

None of them are even close to being Wilshere quality, nevermind Gerrard or Lampard potential.

[Colly]

I don't even know what a James Ward-Prowse is, I assumed JWP was a lesser known Wright-Phillips sibling no one told me about.

Fabian Delph!

[Nerf]

England aren't shit. San Marino are shit. Why is it when it comes to football, if a player or team isn't Messi or Barcalona they are relegated to being "shit"? England are no great shakes a team but they regularly qualify for tournaments without much trouble. Hardly seems that shit to me.

Okay, England aren't shit. They are a collection of above-average at best athletes on world-class wages, playing stone-age football for an out-of-his-depth coach, unable to string more than three simple passes together without being caught in possession. We have failed to evolve as a nation for five fucking decades. Despite everybody's ability to target the root problems of England's failures - nobody has even thought about starting to rectify those issues. We're targeting a World Cup challenge in 9 years time, when Raheem Sterling will be a 26-year-old veteran. That's the dream for us. Compared to where our squad SHOUD be, we're perennial underachievers.

I think I preferred concluding with "England are shit."

[brenchill]

England aren't shit. San Marino are shit. Why is it when it comes to football, if a player or team isn't Messi or Barcalona they are relegated to being "shit"? England are no great shakes a team but they regularly qualify for tournaments without much trouble. Hardly seems that shit to me.

Okay, England aren't shit. They are a collection of above-average at best athletes on world-class wages, playing stone-age football for an out-of-his-depth coach, unable to string more than three simple passes together. We have failed to evolve as a nation for five fucking decades. Despite everybody's ability to target the root problems of England's failures - nobody has even thought about starting to rectify those issues. We're targeting a World Cup challenge in 9 years time, when Raheem Sterling will be 26 years old. That's the dream for us. Compared to where our squad SHOUD be, we're underachieving drastically.

I think I preferred concluding with "England are shit."

Don't worry, Gareth Southgate and Trevor Brooking are working on our failings at St. Georges Park. It'll all be fine!

[TCO]

Hey it could be worse you guys. At least you don't have Paul Green coming into centre midfield for your next qualifier or have Simon Cox as your impact sub.

[Jimmy]

Why should we be giving anyone a 'chance'? If you're good enough, you play. Nobody gave Rooney, Gerrard or Owen a 'chance' as youngsters, they were just good enough.

Of course they gave Owen a chance. He came on a sub a couple of times, and after taking his chance and scoring, he became a regular fixture. It's not as if he was just thrown in at his first game and his spot secured before his first cap.

Same with Gerrard. He didn't walk into the squad, he got there over time.

Not sure what exactly people are complaining about. There's obvious upgrades needed in defense and midfield, but who is there to call upon that isn't already in the England setup?

Point is, the England team is shit. That's because most English players are shit, not because we're overlooking some League 1 diamonds.

You're right, everyone in here is suggesting League One players be called up. Yep. Niner said it better than I could have. Just because we're not the best doesn't make us shit, and other 'shit' teams have gone on to win trophies, or at least progress well in tournaments. I don't know why you'd bother coming in here to discuss anything if you thought everything was shit.

How exactly have Fabian Delph, Ashely Westwood, James Ward-Prowse and Adam Lallana shown they could be "world beaters"? If world beaters means slightly above average Premier League players then, yeah sure.

None of them are even close to being Wilshere quality, nevermind Gerrard or Lampard potential.

I'm personally not sold on the Villa players, but I have no problem with giving people a 'chance', which everyone seems to be so dumbfounded with. We complain that only players from top clubs are selected, but it seems that everyone assumes that if a player doesn't play for a top club they must be average.

I'm sure any of these players would look just as capable as Cleverly in a Man United shirt. You almost always play better with better players. So why not give a couple of these players a cap or two and see how they fit in within the England squad, see if they raise their game and such. Lambert's the example. I don't think anyone honestly expected him to do much with his caps, but he's scored in both games, and now he surely has to start on Tuesday. Even calling players up to get them training with the England squad can do 'em a world of good.

[Matt]

I'd be surprised if Delph didn't get an England call up at some point. In fact if he hadn't had that terrible injury a couple of years ago I think he'd already be a regular in the squad. Not sure I'd describe as a world beater though

[9 to 5]

If the best English players were that dire, they wouldn't be paid all this money and play for big teams. Simple as that.

As regards to youth vs experince, let's do what any sensible side would do. Let the best players play and take a chance on so-called lesser players who are in good form. Who would have thought Lambert should have gotten the chance of a run in the England side a year ago? He took his chance and has succeeded. Many other players at lower clubs in their time haven't. Those who have, have stayed in the squad.

[Nerf]

I'm genuinely not sure if people suggesting Adam Lallana should be playing for England are serious or trolling.

[Jimmy]

England aren't shit. San Marino are shit. Why is it when it comes to football, if a player or team isn't Messi or Barcalona they are relegated to being "shit"? England are no great shakes a team but they regularly qualify for tournaments without much trouble. Hardly seems that shit to me.

Okay, England aren't shit. They are a collection of above-average at best athletes on world-class wages, playing stone-age football for an out-of-his-depth coach, unable to string more than three simple passes together without being caught in possession. We have failed to evolve as a nation for five fucking decades. Despite everybody's ability to target the root problems of England's failures - nobody has even thought about starting to rectify those issues. We're targeting a World Cup challenge in 9 years time, when Raheem Sterling will be a 26-year-old veteran. That's the dream for us. Compared to where our squad SHOUD be, we're perennial underachievers.

I think I preferred concluding with "England are shit."

So Gerrard, who you love every other day of the week, becomes average once it involves discussion for England?

And I know people are pretty pessimistic about our prospects, but not every player is going to emerge at 19 and be a star by then. A bunch of players might actually reach their peak around the age they're supposed to. There's a lot of problems with English football, and hopefully we'll see them sorted out, but until then, it's not like we're not allowed to discuss them because "we're shit."

[Jimmy]

I'm genuinely not sure if people suggesting Adam Lallana should be playing for England are serious or trolling.

There's a difference between saying "he should be playing for England", because that suggests I want to see him play week in and week, and "he should be given a chance". He's the captain for Southampton, which you would assume means he has a strong character, and and always seems to play very, very good football every time I watch him. I'm going to guess you haven't seen him play very much, and I can't say I'm watch him week in and week out either, but he's the kind of player that, if he were playing for a bigger club, would almost definitely have been capped by now.

[Nerf]

England aren't shit. San Marino are shit. Why is it when it comes to football, if a player or team isn't Messi or Barcalona they are relegated to being "shit"? England are no great shakes a team but they regularly qualify for tournaments without much trouble. Hardly seems that shit to me.

Okay, England aren't shit. They are a collection of above-average at best athletes on world-class wages, playing stone-age football for an out-of-his-depth coach, unable to string more than three simple passes together without being caught in possession. We have failed to evolve as a nation for five fucking decades. Despite everybody's ability to target the root problems of England's failures - nobody has even thought about starting to rectify those issues. We're targeting a World Cup challenge in 9 years time, when Raheem Sterling will be a 26-year-old veteran. That's the dream for us. Compared to where our squad SHOUD be, we're perennial underachievers.

I think I preferred concluding with "England are shit."

So Gerrard, who you love every other day of the week, becomes average once it involves discussion for England?

And I know people are pretty pessimistic about our prospects, but not every player is going to emerge at 19 and be a star by then. A bunch of players might actually reach their peak around the age they're supposed to. There's a lot of problems with English football, and hopefully we'll see them sorted out, but until then, it's not like we're not allowed to discuss them because "we're shit."

Way to pick out the only England player worth his salt, but yeah, I stand by that point. Wayne Rooney, for example, is a key player for a title winning side in, arguably, the best league in the world; but he puts an England shirt on and plays like shit, like most of our other players.

Wilshere, Sturridge and Ox would also qualify as exceptions to the rule but they haven't played enough international football to warrant it yet.

Edit: And I've seen plenty of Adam Lallana. As a matter of fact, Southampton are one of the 'other' teams I enjoy. He's a good player, no doubt, but good enough to get us to where we should be trying to get? Not a chance. Also, he's not playing for a bigger club, so let's not deal in ifs and maybes, eh?

[Colly]

This is it, we sit and wait for these individual wonder players to come among and win the World Cup single handedly for us, while other 'lesser' nations build a work ethic and style of play and we suddenly shit ourselves about going to the Ukraine (a team whos wonder player has been and gone).

I don't want to take it back to Germany again, so look at Holland. Comparatively small population, players are all over Europe so can't do the Spain 'play like you do at Barca' trick, but still expected to perform well at tournaments and do it in some style (World Cup final excepted...). Stoker said earlier that an international coach can't instil different tactics into players who are with their clubs 90% of the time, which I can't agree with. Build your tactics through the junior ranks and players have years to get their heads round them, it just needs some forward thinking coaching.

Just look at Germany