Major League Baseball 2010

[sahyder1]

Being British, I'm not really obliged to be interested in Baseball so to speak...

HOWEVER, despite not understanding it all, I did just watch the San Francisco Giants at Texas Rangers is it?

Sort of drifting in and out of it - but it's actually such a good fucking sport, man!

Definitely got to get myself into this, just got to get a more in-depth idea of how the game works to be honest!! I guess these American sports aren't so bad after all!

Those were the two teams in the World Series yes. I know it was broadcast over there on satellite when it was happening live, how are you seeing it now, a month after it ended? Hopefully no one spoils it for you if you want to finish watching the whole thing.

I'm sure those of us around here will give you information on the rules and teams and history and such. And also the most important word of advice. Do not ever, under any circumstances, cheer for the New York Yankees.

The most important advice someone will ever give you!

[Meacon Keaton]

Don't listen to damshow or sahyder. They jinx teams and players and know not of which they speak!

[HailtotheYo]

I don't think the A-Rod post-season perception is way overblown. Sure, his overall numbers for the playoffs look acceptable because he's had a few really good playoff years.

He's also had a run of absolutley asstastic years as well (more specifically when he showed up in NY and was supposed to be A-God and then ended up with his face on a milk carton with a number to call if you'd seen him during the playoffs).

I'm not at all saying Jeter is better than A-Rod ... my comment was aimed more at the intangibles and "it" that Jeter brings that A-Rod does not. Things like "the throw" that Giambi was tagged out (but was safe - sorry, I'm an A's fan) on. There's a reason Jeter was labeled as Mr Clutch, and A-Rod hasn't been. There's a reason people called A-Rod out for his playoff performance, or lack there of. A-Rod is Hi/Lo in the playoffs, there's no consistancy with him. He can't be counted on because you have no idea if you're getting the .455 hitting A-Rod of the '09 ALDS, or the .071 hitting A-Rod of the '06 ALDS.

There's also the seperate issue of A-Rod's fielding going down the shitter at 3rd, which has also reared it's head in the playoffs more than once.

If you add in the RBIs to that list the numbers look so much better for A-Rod too. He has just 19 less RBIs in 84 fewer playoff games

I would hope that a guy hitting 3/4 in the lineup would have a better RBI rate than a guy that hits 1/2 .... really guy ? Come on.

But yeah, I'm not here to debate the merits of A-Rod VS Jeter ... my entire comment on the subject is this: In the case of Jeter there's much more than "raw numbers" involved in determining what the Yankees should do in this situation.

[Ananas]

Absolutely there is, but it's not "clutch". Jeter's gotten on base more and hit for less power in regular season high leverage situations (.317/.397/.431) over his career than his career norms (.314/.385/.452), and in the post season got on base less and hit for more power (.309/.377/.472). It all comes out in the wash, really. What's playing into his "intangible" value is sentimental attachment and his nearness to the 3,000 hit plateau, not on field value of any kind. There aren't baseball reasons to offer him 45 over 3, much less the insane figure he started out asking for.

EDIT: Also you're totally right about the RBI point, I was going to point that out myself if you hadn't hit the nail on the head already. A-Rod benefitted from people like Jeter hitting in front of him while Jeter suffered from having to deal with such luminaries as Bubba Crosby, Tony Clark, Enrique Wilson, Melky Cabrera, Jose Molina and Francisco Cervelli at the bottom of the lineup over the years.

[sahyder1]

Jeter didn't get any big hits during those 4 years either. Starting with game 4 of the 2004 ALCS no one hit for the Yankees in the playoffs but A-Rod got singled out because he's A-Rod. Jeter got a total pass when as the "captain" he should have been held responsible. A-Rod had a good playoff track record before he came to the Yankees.

A-Rod was well on his way to being the greatest SS to ever the game moved to 3B but Jeter's ego still couldn't handle him being on the team. A-Rod sucked it up and never said anything in the media until 2008.

A-Rod is solid at 3B. I don't know what baseball you've been watching. A-Rod is a better SS then Jeter. He's also a better 3B then Jeter is at SS.

I would hope that a guy hitting 3/4 in the lineup would have a better RBI rate than a guy that hits 1/2 .... really guy ? Come on.

Lets not act Jeter doesn't get RBI opportunities hitting at the top of the order. Aside from the last couple of years the Yankees haven't done small ball at the top of the order for most of Jeter's tenure because the guys hitting at the bottom of the order have been good hitters. Derek Jeter has never had to carry a team. A-Rod, even on a loaded team has always been treated differently. Taking A-Rod over Jeter in a lineup is a no-brainer. At no point in their careers have I ever thought otherwise.

[HailtotheYo]

A-Rod is solid at 3B. I don't know what baseball you've been watching. A-Rod is a better SS then Jeter. He's also a better 3B then Jeter is at SS.

I've been watching the baseball where A-Rod went from .977 fielding at shortstop (.976 for Jeter ... yeah), to .964 fielding at 3B.

His fiedling is 13pts lower at 3B. That baseball. The baseball where A-Rod and Jeter are equals at SS and A-Rod has gotten worse since moving to 3B, or in other words, the baseball that has actually taken place in the real world.

Lets not act Jeter doesn't get RBI opportunities hitting at the top of the order.

This is where I get to use your phrase. Let's not act like a 1/2 hitter gets RBI chances like a 3/4 hitter. Please.

A-Rod had a good playoff track record before he came to the Yankees.

Yeah, and then he went into Witness Protection. That helps my stance, not yours.

Also, take a look at the Yankees hardware with Jeter at the helm and then take a look at their hardware since A-Rod's arrival. Isn't part of what makes you "Clutch" and the "best player" your ability to perform, lead, and actually be the guy ? Why yes, it is. THAT is why A-Rod got the shit when he showed up in NY and promptly shit the bed. Jeter had already done it multiple times by '04 when "the best player in the game" came to town.

Oh, and in "those 4yrs" Jeter hit .291 in the playoffs to A-Rod's .244

A-Rod HRPAB in the regular season is 14.4 ... 17.7 in the playoffs. RBIPAB is 4.82 in the regular season ... 6.07 in the playoffs.

The big problem with A-Rod is that he has been the best player in baseball during the regular season but doesn't match that in the post-season.

[Jive]

Reports in Boston say the Red Sox are pushing for Adrian Gonzalez as hard as ever. Weary of dealing four or five prospects for a corner infielder who will be available via free agency in a year anyway. I like Casey Kelly too much to deal him.

[sahyder1]

Did you just seriously try to use Fielding % as a stat? A-Rod gets to so many balls that Jeter just doesn't get to. Fielding % only accounts for the balls that you get to. You have to be high on something to believe that Jeter was ever as good a SS as A-Rod.

Yankees won in the 90s because they had the pitching. If A-Rod and Jeter had swapped place, the Yankees would still have won the 4 World Series.

[Jive]

Jeter had the sixth worst UZR at -5.4 mainly do to the league worst range rating of -11.8. Sure, he fields the ones that come his way, but his cone of fielding is the smallest in the league. He fielded 277 balls in 1303 innings, 10th least, but the average innings played by the nine below him was ~200 less.

Alex's UZR was also sixth worst at his position at -2.3 and his range was second worst at -8.0. He fielded 185 balls in 1046 innings.

They are both sub-par fielders.

[Damian WayLNKe]

Being British, I'm not really obliged to be interested in Baseball so to speak...

HOWEVER, despite not understanding it all, I did just watch the San Francisco Giants at Texas Rangers is it?

Sort of drifting in and out of it - but it's actually such a good fucking sport, man!

Definitely got to get myself into this, just got to get a more in-depth idea of how the game works to be honest!! I guess these American sports aren't so bad after all!

If you want a history of the game I would recommend checking out the Ken Burns documentary: Baseball

[HailtotheYo]

Did you just seriously try to use Fielding % as a stat? A-Rod gets to so many balls that Jeter just doesn't get to. Fielding % only accounts for the balls that you get to. You have to be high on something to believe that Jeter was ever as good a SS as A-Rod.

This statement, from the guy that wanted to use the RBI stat for a cleanup guy in comparison to that of a 1/2 guy. yeah, the portion of the discussion with you is over.

[sahyder1]

Like those 2 are anywhere close to being the same thing.

[Ananas]

Like those 2 are anywhere close to being the same thing.

They're both useless. To gauge defensive ability from fielding percentage is to assume equal ability to get to balls hit to their zone of play (or out of their zone for plus fielders). To gauge offensive ability from RBI's is to assume equal opportunity to drive in runners. Both are misleading and often used to perpetuate myths (listen to anyone try to justify Jeter's GG this year and they'll always bring up fielding percentage/look at this year's Carter-Batista Award at Fangraphs of how much RBIs can overstate a hitter's value).

[Maxx]

Like those 2 are anywhere close to being the same thing.

They're both useless. To gauge defensive ability from fielding percentage is to assume equal ability to get to balls hit to their zone of play (or out of their zone for plus fielders). To gauge offensive ability from RBI's is to assume equal opportunity to drive in runners. Both are misleading and often used to perpetuate myths (listen to anyone try to justify Jeter's GG this year and they'll always bring up fielding percentage/look at this year's Carter-Batista Award at Fangraphs of how much RBIs can overstate a hitter's value).

So is this entire argument.

Statistically, ARod is a better player, pretty much always has been. However Jeter has a bunch of intangibles that ARod will never possess, that might make him a better player overall. Also, ARod did steroids and we don't know for how long, so who's to say his stats aren't artificially inflated?

[Noodles]

Being British, I'm not really obliged to be interested in Baseball so to speak...

HOWEVER, despite not understanding it all, I did just watch the San Francisco Giants at Texas Rangers is it?

Sort of drifting in and out of it - but it's actually such a good fucking sport, man!

Definitely got to get myself into this, just got to get a more in-depth idea of how the game works to be honest!! I guess these American sports aren't so bad after all!

If you want a history of the game I would recommend checking out the Ken Burns documentary: Baseball

Cheers, man!

Luckily, I just found this in Amazon! Fifty Six fucking quid that just cost me... That's nearly ninety dollars to you lot!!

I pray that this is worth it... Or I'm going to be most upset

Although, on a serious note - thanks for showing me this, read the wikipedia page about it seem to get the gist of things. I'll check out this DVD once it's arrived then

[Lowerdeck]

Reports in Boston say the Red Sox are pushing for Adrian Gonzalez as hard as ever. Weary of dealing four or five prospects for a corner infielder who will be available via free agency in a year anyway. I like Casey Kelly too much to deal him.

Looks like Kelly is the centerpiece heading to SD.

Source: http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2010/12/red_sox_close_i.html?p1=Upbox_links

The Red Sox and Padres have apparently agreed on a trade for Adrian Gonzalez. The All-Star first baseman is either already Boston or on the way according to Nick Cafardo and other reports.

The next step in the process would be for Gonzalez to have a physical and agree on a contract extension.

Neither of those steps are necessarily guaranteed, Gonzalez recently had surgery on his right (non-throwing) shoulder that will reportedly keep him out early in spring training. The Red Sox have to be assured that the injury is not more serious than that. The team also would need Gonzalez signed long term before consummating the deal.

It is unclear who the Red Sox are giving up. The package appears to be built around RHP Casey Kelly and 1B Anthony Rizzo.

UPDATE, 9:07 a.m.: Padres closer Heath Bell is reportedly not involved in the trade and the Red Sox will not be parting with Daniel Bard.

Casey Kelly, by all accounts, is at the center of the deal.

Don't know much about Kelly, but know he is fairly well regarded. If there's no other major names dealt, I'd be happy. Though this means we abandon resigning Beltre, and move Youk to third.

[Lowerdeck]

Being British, I'm not really obliged to be interested in Baseball so to speak...

HOWEVER, despite not understanding it all, I did just watch the San Francisco Giants at Texas Rangers is it?

Sort of drifting in and out of it - but it's actually such a good fucking sport, man!

Definitely got to get myself into this, just got to get a more in-depth idea of how the game works to be honest!! I guess these American sports aren't so bad after all!

If you want a history of the game I would recommend checking out the Ken Burns documentary: Baseball

Cheers, man!

Luckily, I just found this in Amazon! Fifty Six fucking quid that just cost me... That's nearly ninety dollars to you lot!!

I pray that this is worth it... Or I'm going to be most upset

Although, on a serious note - thanks for showing me this, read the wikipedia page about it seem to get the gist of things. I'll check out this DVD once it's arrived then

It's an 11 DVD box set. And I hope you have a Regionless or Region 1 DVD player.

American version of Amazon was selling it for $51, I wonder if you could have done that then shipped it to England cheaper.

[gunnar hendershow]

Huge deal for Boston since they didn't have to give up any major league talent for Gonzalez. Why a team who almost won the West last year would be content doing this is a mystery, it's gonna upset some of their fans. Beltre won't be coming back to Boston, that's for certain now.

[GhostMachine]

Being British, I'm not really obliged to be interested in Baseball so to speak...

HOWEVER, despite not understanding it all, I did just watch the San Francisco Giants at Texas Rangers is it?

Sort of drifting in and out of it - but it's actually such a good fucking sport, man!

Definitely got to get myself into this, just got to get a more in-depth idea of how the game works to be honest!! I guess these American sports aren't so bad after all!

If you want a history of the game I would recommend checking out the Ken Burns documentary: Baseball

I second that recommendation. In fact, I have a fairly big and expensive (we're talking coffee table) book based on the documentary.

[Lowerdeck]

Boston Globe again...

It appears the Red Sox will obtain Adrian Gonzalez from the Padres for RHP Casey Kelly, 1B Anthony Rizzo and CF Rey Fuentes.

If that proves to be the case — and nothing is final quite yet — the Red Sox will have done quite well to retain Jose Iglesias and Ryan Kalish.

Kelly is their best prospect and his loss would be significant. But when the Red Sox drafted and signed Anthony Ranaudo and Brandon Workman, that gave then two RHPs who are older than Kelly. Ranaudo is a comparable prospect and could make it to Portland at some point next season.

Rizzo is an excellent prospect who could start next season in AAA. But with Gonzalez in the fold, the Red Sox do not need a first baseman. Fuentes is an athletic A ball prospect who so far has lacked power.

UPDATE, 10:52 a.m.: We can now confirm, via Major League sources, that the package will be Kelly, Rizzo and Fuentes.

That's two former first-round picks and three players with tremendous upside.

Keep this in mind, however. The Red Sox will gain five draft picks in a deep 2011 draft as free-agent compensation. They will get two picks for Victor Martinez, two for Adrian Beltre and one for Felipe Lopez in addition to their own.

This looks like a big deal for Boston, especially without giving up tons of big name prospects and/or major leaguers.