Official Premier League 2010/11 thread

[Pesci]

I'm not saying it's awesome, but it's definitely better than that performance, and the squad just isn't the reason we played like cunts so people shouldn't argue that it is.

[Liam]

So you assume that a different manager would change everything for you? I really think that Liverpool fans are reaching way too far in what they are expecting, because most other non-Liverpool fans would suggest that the squad aren't that good. You have Torres when he isn't injured and fancies trying, Gerrard when he isn't going missing during games, Reina who is awesome, Lucas who has done well this season for sure, a few other players (Agger, Skrtel), players who really aren't playing that well (Johnson) and then a lot of also rans, really. Lack strength in depth, basically.

[Pesci]

A different manager would have to try quite hard to be worse. When that's the case I don't think there's any sense in keeping Roy. It's just that so far there are very few positives to be taken from his stint in charge and a new manager may not work wonders, but it seems obvious the players aren't motivated by Roy.

[Liam]

My argument is simply that irrelevant of manager, Liverpool don't really have a team that can challenge like they have the past seasons. By all means, get rid of Roy, but I think any manager would struggle currently with Liverpool. It was why I was surprised he left in the first place, I thought Liverpool was essentially the un-doable job. Little money, ok squad, high expectations.

[Pesci]

I think he has a squad that should see him comfortably in the Top 8. Though I don't think the way we started the season helped at all. If we kind of tread water and stayed mid-table-ish the whole time as opposed to spending the start in the relegation zone, I think everybody would have a different opinion. It's just hard to see a way back from the dismal start since performances aren't getting better, the Chelsea game aside. As it stands, we're only three points away from Spurs - doing slightly better in the games we've played so far would've made all the difference. And really, I think a more capable manager would've had us in the Spurs/Bolton/Newcastle area at this point.

[Liam]

So a better manager would have got you at least three more points?

To be honest, I actually thought Liverpool were further back down the table. When you put it in terms of points, it isn't as bad as I thought. The problem is the performances though, for definite.

[9 to 5]

Who better could have Liverpool gotten as manager, really?

[therockbox]

When Roy took over, the first team squad was pretty much;

GK: Reina, Cavalieri

DR: Johnson, Kelly

DL: Insua

DC: Carragher, Agger, Skrtel, Kyrgiakos

MR: Kuyt, Maxi

ML: Jovanovic, Riera, Babel

MC: Gerrard, Lucas, Mascherano, Aquilani

ST: Torres, N'Gog

On top of that you had a few fairly decent young players, like Pacheco, Wilson, Shelvey, Mavinga etc. Nobody expected that squad to win the title, and despite the previous manager getting sacked for not getting into the Champions League Roy wasn't even expected to do that either. His brief was merely to make sure we challenged for the top four (which the squad did last season despite ridiculous injuries throughout the campaign, and with the same squad), and 'steady the ship' until the new ownership was in place.

Obviously Mascherano leaving wasn't down to him, although it was handled badly given that Masch going had been set in place a year earlier, but again the club not preparing isn't something Roy can be blamed for. Signing Poulsen however is definitely something Roy can be blamed - spending £5m on a player whose best years came a few years ago and looked off the pace in Serie A was a poor decision, as was shipping out Aquilani in a lose/lose loan deal. We pay for him to get fit, then ship him off to Juventus, where he's excelling and making the £13m buy out clause they've got for him look cheap.

Having weakened the central midfield Roy set about at left back, doing his best to force out the only senior left back on the books (Aurelio having been let go after he refused to sign a pay-as-you-play deal under Benitez). With Insua having gone on loan to Galatasaray, with one year on his contract meaning we'll get nothing for him despite Fiorentina tabling a £5m bid in the summer for him, it suddenly dawned on Roy that we had no left backs. At all. So he brings back Aurelio, who can name his terms (and has spent almost the entire season so far out injured - what a shock), and signs Koncheskey, for £5m and with a few promising youngsters going the opposite way. Essentially we're in the same position we were last season - two left backs, one of whom is never fit, and the other who is forced to play every game. The only difference is that Koncheskey is almost 9 years older than Insua, on triple the wages (at least), is no better defensively and worse going forward, and will have no resale value whatsoever whereas Insua will only improve, increase in value and has a shot of going to the 2014 World Cup with Argentina.

Joe Cole is, at best, a like for like swap with Benayoun, except with a worse injury record and higher wages. There was a lot of talk of getting Cole being a 'coup' for Liverpool, but his performances so far would suggest that was premature.

Raul Meireles was a surprisingly good signing. It came out of the blue, and for a second it appeared that Roy wasn't completely at sea at all. Then it emerged that Meireles was scouted by Benitez, and signed by Purslow on the recommendation of Eduardo Macia (who had been Benitez's chief scout), and that Hodgson didn't really know what to do with him. He played him on the right wing at first, trying to justify it by saying we 'don't play with wingers' - not when you put central midfielders out there Roy. A brief, promising spell in the centre alongside Lucas was cut short when it was deemed necessary to shove Gerrard back into the centre of midfield, in the game after he'd scored a hattrick against Napoli from his position just off the striker.

He paid £2.3m for Brad Jones. I don't think I need to expand on why this was a batshit retarded thing to do. Brad Jones.

On transfer deadline day it emerged that he had nearly weakened the squad even further by offering Lucas to all and sundry, and trying to offload him in part exchange deals for the ridiculously overpriced Carlton Cole and Bobby Zamora. Whilst a striker was needed, smarter deals over the summer would have meant we'd have been able to get one in without having to weaken other areas of the squad.

That was just the start of why people are sick of Roy. I could go into detail about his snidey, blame-deflecting press conferences, his (at best) misinformed nonsense about Kenny being 'banned from Melwood' by Benitez, his archaic tactics, his complete lack of a Plan B, his awful away record, alienating Agger, ennobling Lord Carra of Scousedom instead of starting to phase him out, and his general unsuitability to the job, but to be honest it's too depressing. He's been a disaster, and is so obviously out of his depth that it's painful to watch. At this point, sacking him would be merciful, he's already managed to lose and piss off large the supporters, but if he leaves now he'll go before the media smell blood and turn on him as well.

Who better could have Liverpool gotten as manager, really?

Pellegrini. He wanted the job, but didn't get it because of his nationality. The club, and two players in particular, wanted an English manager.

[Liam]

tl;dr >_>

But in all honesty, what did you expect from Liverpool this season? It seems to me that Liverpool fans expected a certain level that practically every non-Liverpool fan thought was beyond their reach.

EDIT: Looking through it again, Konchesky wasn't £5million. Not far away, but potentially as much as £2million less.

Edited November 14, 2010 by Liam

[9 to 5]

A manager who had limited English and was the most costly (probably, blame my memory) free agent out there? Never likely. Plus teh lure of hiring an experinced, over-acheiving manager with a limited squad with good knowledge of the Premiership? On paper, that was perfect for Liverpool as they are.

[Benjamin]

Good job, Liverpool. Soon, we'll have as many games as we have points.

[therockbox]

But in all honesty, what did you expect from Liverpool this season?

In purely results terms, and ignoring the cups, to challenge for the top four. I don't think that was unrealistic at all, given that we did the same until there were only two or three games left last season, and we did so with a ridiculous injury list throughout the season, and against the backdrop of Hicks & Gillett's last stand. Plus, as was 'reported' in the summer, we did it with the players all being 'sick' of Benitez and fed up of his 'cold' ways. I didn't buy it at the time, and I think it has been proven to have been bollocks this season (if anything, morale seems to be worse under Roy), but still. One of his jobs was to be an arm around the shoulder type manager, and make the players happy again. It's a big fat F on that one so far - as I said, it seems worse.

But the issue with Roy goes deeper than just results. As I said, his press conferences and media interviews have been embarrassing, he's alienated certain players (Agger, Johnson, Pacheco), failed to defend Torres after he was accused of cheating by the roadside shitter, seeked to blame the previous manager at every opportunity, used Dalglish as a pawn in an attempt to increase support, and generally talked about our results as if we're a bottom seven club (a 'famous victory' against Trabzonspor, beating Everton would have been 'utopia', describing Northampton Town as a 'formidable opponent' etc).

His tactics are also outdated, ill-suited to our players (he's managed to find a system that highlights the weaknesses of all our players except Kyrgiakos and, against the bigger teams, Carragher), and make the stuff used by Houllier in his final days look modern and progressive. Alarm bells started ringing when he namechecked Don Howe and Dave Sexton when he first arrived, and whilst his system - his only system - might suit Fulham, who are absolutely delighted with a 12th place finish and a run to the Europa League final - simply don't fit at a club like Liverpool.

[therockbox]

A manager who had limited English and was the most costly (probably, blame my memory) free agent out there? Never likely. Plus teh lure of hiring an experinced, over-acheiving manager with a limited squad with good knowledge of the Premiership? On paper, that was perfect for Liverpool as they are.

I don't see how he'd have been any more costly than Roy. He was free, so any potential increase in wages on Roy (if there would have been one), would have been offset by the money we wouldn't have had to pay Fulham - around £3m, I think - to hire Hodgson.

On paper Roy might have looked like a perfect fit, but that was only if you took what was being said in the media about him at face value. Delving into his record indicated that he'd probably be out of his depth and not up to it, and I think that's been proven right. He's a journeyman manager whose greatest achievment was getting Fulham to the final of the Europa League - an achievment no greater than Steve McClaren's with Middlesbrough, who also failed when he was promoted to a bigger job.

Roy got the job pretty much because of his reputation within the media, who had the ear of our MD (Purslow) at the time. I think the press thought they'd have Capello out fairly sharpish after the World Cup debacle, and having got one of 'their men' into a top job, saw a natural progression - Join Liverpool > Steady the ship > Improve on what Benitez achieved - Into the England seat in time for 2012. Unfortunately Capello's sticking around, and Spurs' form in the Champions League mean Redknapp will more than likely replace Capello once he's done (unless he manages to fuck things up over the next year or two), so Roy's left in a job that he's not cut out for, with an ever increasing number of people aware of it. The media haven't turned on him yet, largely because it would make them look stupid, but they will eventually. It shouldn't be allowed to get to that stage though - he won't resign, so NESV need to pull the plug as quickly as possible.

Edited November 14, 2010 by therockbox.

[britneyspearsisgod]

I find it ridiculous that he goes and criticises Glenn Johnson in the press - and not even in a good way. He asked a bunch of hypothetical questions in relation to Johnson in a manner as if he hadn't even discussed it with Glenn first. Say what you will, but managers need players on their side. Even if it goes against his nature, he needs to bullshit these players and get their confidence up. He needs to be on their side - not being in awe of Alex Ferguson. That got me as well - how can the manager of Liverpool not say something in retaliation against the Sir Alex? I respect him as much as anyone, but if I'm Liverpool manager then I galvanise the troops and tell him to politely go fuck himself with his twat of a son's fist.

Why his fist? I'm not entirely sure.

All in all, I've been very surprised at how Roy doesn't seem to grasp the situation he's in. He has to fight for Liverpool and his players. Not everyone has this fire born into them like maybe some of Roy's previous players had been.

[Shelty92]

Well, yesterday didn't turn out that bad after all. City drawing after my mate (City fan) had texted me during Villa/United (1-0: "Hahaha, the streak will end today!", 2-0: "LOSERS", 2-1: ".. don't, please don't", 2-2: "cunts >_>") was fun and Stoke beating Liverpool brightened up my day. I just hope Sunderland pull off a miracle today and Everton can match Arsenal at Goodison. My fingers are crossed.

It seems Rooney might be back for the Wigan game next weekend. Interesting to see what kind of reception he gets at OT. Let's hope he'll get himself back in form (we need him, no matter how much I despise him right now) and actually bothers to try now that he's making £200k a week.

Edited November 14, 2010 by Shelty92

[Baddar]

Arsenal 1-0 up on Everton at half time after Sagna smashed past Howard - is it just me or does Howard concede more goals than anyone at his near post? :/

And I saw Elmander's goal on GoS this morning - wow. My goal of the season, without a doubt. I prefer goals like that to 35 yard screamers as a personal preference. It was wonderful close-control.

[ChrisSteeleAteMyHamster]

Is Chamakh wearing some kind of ladies snood around his neck??

[Baddar]

Tevez had similar on the other night - makes sense for that ugly bastard to wear one though.

Adebayor took things to a whole new level with his, mind.

[ChrisSteeleAteMyHamster]

It's embarrassing. Such things should be banned on a football pitch.

Still, I'd also ban gloves, long sleeves and undershorts but I'm bloody ancient.

[ChrisSteeleAteMyHamster]

Howard Webb in decision making blunder SHOCKER. Everton had advantage clear in the penalty area. Silly man. Perhaps his head is too cold to make wise decisions. Chamakh should lend him his snood.