NBA Thread 2011-12

[DYSI]

Fucking Lakers.

[Maxx]

Why bother to have small market teams? I don't get it. If I'm a fan of the Bobcats, why should I believe they will ever have a chance of winning it all? No matter how much cap room they have, superstar players won't go there. So you end up blowing your cap room overpaying middle of the road players, just so you might have the passing chance of being somewhat competitive. Contraction is coming, because this kind of shit is going to keep happening.

[Quom]

The only thing that was 100% absolutely needed as part of the lockout was setting up a franchise player system whereby each team could protect their top player. It makes no sense for the weakest teams in the league to be able to draft the best players knowing that they will likely lose them to an established team 3-5years later. The small market teams are pseudo NBDL teams/finishing schools for the best players.

Now I'm not sure how you make it work as obviously if you are in the same situation as the Jazz were last year where your coach and top player hate each other it may make it essential to trade your top player, my initial thought was to make it so the team of origin could offer a much larger contract which doesn't count against the cap (like a $5 mill per year franchise player exemption that every team can use on one player). But that would fuck those sorts of trades up unless it was franchise player for franchise player as Deron Williams may have refused the trade knowing he would be giving up the extra money.

Having these all-star calibre teams is silly. Especially when it isn't even a free market, so you can't do it in a small market by offering extra incentives/cash to get these players or keep them. They should make it an eight team league if this is the path they are taking. There will always be the occasional anomaly like OKC who build a team through good drafting and serendipity. But it's much more likely that the divide between top teams and lower teams is going to keep getting bigger and bigger.

Other option would be to destroy the draft entirely and require teams to develop their own youth systems similar to football (soccer). That way you would hope that having developed them from young age they might be willing to stick around (although that's not guaranteed to work either).

To me this was the biggest issue the league was facing and it's one that went unreported once the lock out started. Although I guess it's hard to end up with league owner for and against it whilst you would have players also split for and against it and then those two factions needing to still side together to get the player and owners shit sorted.

[gunnar hendershow]

I'm not convinced LA got better, getting rid of 7-foot center usually isn't the best option. They do have a piece to build around for the future which is important and when Howard comes to town they'll have a core to last them another 6-7 years. I'm just skepitcal if right now LA is better without Pau.

[gunnar hendershow]

And it's now being reported that the deal is in jeopardy because of protests from owners of other teams.

[livid]

That's a bigger joke than the actual trade.

[Maxx]

Not really, given what we were just discussing about small market teams, especially considering the NBA owns the Hornets.

[DMN in the House]

Fuck that, I'd only move Pau for Dwight. Yeah, let's depend on TWO players with fucked up knees. Sending Pau for Paul is... not a bad move, but not the smartest move, unless they feel Pau is going to continue to play like he did in the playoffs.

Bynum, Odom, and Artest + Picks for Dwight and Agent Zero. That's about as fair as Orlando will get without the Bulls gutting themselves, or trying to sell Brooke Lopez and picks to their fanbase (while trying to recoup the money spent on building a new arena)...

[naiwf]

The NBA is worse than MLB since at least we know that the Yankees will outspend everyone in the world. The Lakers basically get the luxury of teams handing their best chips away at pennies on the dollar. Kobe for Vlade, Pau for a bucket of balls and some sneakers etc. The new CBA was supposed to change this and if they had ended up swapping Odom, Bynum and Gasol for Paul and Howard that would have been about as bad as the previous trades I just mentioned. The Lakers should not perpetually be able to trade for or sign the best players in the league without losing something substantial.

[Fait Accompli]

"Basketball reasons". That's what a league source gave as the reason behind the trade getting blocked.

I don't even know what that means.

[naiwf]

"Basketball reasons". That's what a league source gave as the reason behind the trade getting blocked.

I don't even know what that means.

It means that a team owned and operated by the league shouldn't trade one of the 10 best players in the league to a perennial championship contender for 2 guys who aren't close to top 10 status. Had they OK'd this trade, the Lakers would have managed to obtain 2 top 10 players in their primes for a guy with gimpy knees, a chronic underachiever and a soft Spaniard. Had this happened last year no one would have batted an eye, but after you nearly blew up a season to "restore competitive balance" you can't have one of the best teams in the league gut 2 franchises for spare parts. It was bad enough that the "Big 2 1/2" killed off franchises in Cleveland and Toronto through free agency, but the Lakers murdering New Orleans and Orlando via trade would have looked far worse.

[DMN in the House]

One way or another, either Dwight or Paul is coming to LA. I hate to break it to you, but it's the stupidity of the other owners that allow it to happen. Don't blame LA.

[livid]

"Basketball reasons". That's what a league source gave as the reason behind the trade getting blocked.

I don't even know what that means.

It means that a team owned and operated by the league shouldn't trade one of the 10 best players in the league to a perennial championship contender for 2 guys who aren't close to top 10 status. Had they OK'd this trade, the Lakers would have managed to obtain 2 top 10 players in their primes for a guy with gimpy knees, a chronic underachiever and a soft Spaniard. Had this happened last year no one would have batted an eye, but after you nearly blew up a season to "restore competitive balance" you can't have one of the best teams in the league gut 2 franchises for spare parts. It was bad enough that the "Big 2 1/2" killed off franchises in Cleveland and Toronto through free agency, but the Lakers murdering New Orleans and Orlando via trade would have looked far worse.

I know you hate LA but the idea that Pau Gasol and Lamar Odom are just "spare parts" is pretty ridiculous. Gasol is a perennial All-Star and Odom has been a major part of the team's success the last few years.

And that said, I'm really not sure how LA would've been able to pull off a move to get Howard like everybody here assumes. Howard's refusal to sign an extension with anybody else or not, I don't see how the Magic could take just Bynum (this is a deal that would get crucified) and the Lakers wouldn't have any other pieces to add to it.

But my biggest issue with this is the fact that they killed the best deal the Hornets could get. The NBA gave Hornets GM Dell Demps free reign to find an offer for Chris Paul and he did. The fact is, the Lakers (with the Rockets' help) had the most assets to offer and the Hornets were able to come away with a pretty good haul of young players and draft picks that was much more than any other team is going to be offering. The Clippers aren't going to offer Eric Gordon and the Warriors aren't going to offer Steph Curry, so who else would be able to make the kind of offer the Lakers and Rockets were able to?

And if the big issue was the fact that the Lakers would be able to get both Paul and Howard, why not just kill the eventual Howard deal? Because if that deal were to happen, that would be the one where the Lakers would get away with getting a player for nothing.

[naiwf]

One way or another, either Dwight or Paul is coming to LA. I hate to break it to you, but it's the stupidity of the other owners that allow it to happen. Don't blame LA.

I don't have a problem with one of them ending up on the Lakers. If they both did, the whole lock out would have been rendered pointless since 2 small market teams would have gutted themselves so that LA could win another title or two before a game was even played.

I know you hate LA but the idea that Pau Gasol and Lamar Odom are just "spare parts" is pretty ridiculous. Gasol is a perennial All-Star and Odom has been a major part of the team's success the last few years.

The Lakers would be giving up a 31 year old starting PF, and a 32 year old 6th man for one of the best PGs in the league. When you add in that the PG happens to be 26 and the Lakers would be saving money in the process it's a trade of spare parts for a superstar. Spare parts for the Lakers may not be the same as spare parts for the Bobcats, but whenever you can trade two guys who at best are top 20/top 40 players for a guy in the top 10ish area you do it. When you can compound that deal by giving up a well known prospect for the best big man in the game, the system is (still) broken,

Edited December 9, 2011 by naiwf

[Fait Accompli]

So, guess which one of the owners were against the trade for Chris Paul and wrote an email to David Stern calling said trade a "travesty"?

Why, it's our dear friend, Dan Gilbert.

Yeah.

Edit: Here's the link to the article about it - http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=ys-nba_dan_gilbert_email_lakers_hornets_trade_120811

Edited December 9, 2011 by Fait Accompli

[Maxx]

Reports are Dwight had decided that he wants to go to the Nets and will be asking for a trade shortly.

[gunnar hendershow]

Yeah Dwight has decided he wants to call Brooklyn home it sounds like. With Bynum for Howard off the table I'd expect to see him get included in a package for Paul now. Lakers will fuck themselves short-term if they dump too much size for Paul though, I am convinced. Though, I'll reiterate, since Kobe isn't getting any younger they can immediately start to build around Paul next offseason.

[Trey]

On Quom's point of something that teams could offer to keep their star players, why not have a $10 million a year clause that would allow the team that drafts you (and only that team so that way teams couldn't trade for someone and then give them the bonus) to be given the option of giving any one player up to an extra $10 million per year that doesn't count against the cap whenever they resign a contract and limit it to one player per team at a time.

[GoN_]

One way or another, either Dwight or Paul is coming to LA. I hate to break it to you, but it's the stupidity of the other owners that allow it to happen. Don't blame LA.

I don't have a problem with one of them ending up on the Lakers. If they both did, the whole lock out would have been rendered pointless since 2 small market teams would have gutted themselves so that LA could win another title or two before a game was even played.

I know you hate LA but the idea that Pau Gasol and Lamar Odom are just "spare parts" is pretty ridiculous. Gasol is a perennial All-Star and Odom has been a major part of the team's success the last few years.

The Lakers would be giving up a 31 year old starting PF, and a 32 year old 6th man for one of the best PGs in the league. When you add in that the PG happens to be 26 and the Lakers would be saving money in the process it's a trade of spare parts for a superstar. Spare parts for the Lakers may not be the same as spare parts for the Bobcats, but whenever you can trade two guys who at best are top 20/top 40 players for a guy in the top 10ish area you do it. When you can compound that deal by giving up a well known prospect for the best big man in the game, the system is (still) broken,

So, instead of getting 3 good players, the Hornets get either a far worse deal or nothing. Great job.

And Pau Gasol is still one of the best in the league in his position.

Edited December 9, 2011 by GoN_

[Quom]

On Quom's point of something that teams could offer to keep their star players, why not have a $10 million a year clause that would allow the team that drafts you (and only that team so that way teams couldn't trade for someone and then give them the bonus) to be given the option of giving any one player up to an extra $10 million per year that doesn't count against the cap whenever they resign a contract and limit it to one player per team at a time.

Because like I said it fucks over teams who need to unload a player who is a cancer. Deron Williams is a great player, but obviously they felt like he was bringing the team down. Limiting what they can ask for in return in those situations actually fucks over the team who drafted him.