The Avengers

[MalaCloudy Black]

Clark Gregg's Top 5 Scenes from the Avengers Movies

[Summers]

[SRN]

Clark Gregg's Top 5 Scenes from the Avengers Movies

That is fucking amazing.

[Nick Adams]

This might deserve its own thread, but if not...

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It was bound to happen. However, I think a few things of his were off-base. However, it did get me to thinking - what if DC had decided to start a Justice League story arc with Batman Begins? Suddenly, you don't get a crappy "sequel" to Superman II. You get a Green Lantern movie, but chances are it's far better than what we actually got. You also get a a Wonder Woman film, with Aquaman, Flash and Martian Manhunter making cameos at some point (or just being introduced in the JL film), and all of them joining the League to defend Earth from an external threat. So, if DC actually had done this, here's where I would have expected them to go, if they had done an Avengers-style build to Justice League (spoilered for those that don't want to read it):

1. Batman Begins - You still get the same basic origin story, but no Ra's al-Ghul (yet). In fact, you instead get a Bruce Wayne that, after his parents' murder, focuses his entire education upon learning how to clandestinely fight crime. You have a montage, with him going to school to learn criminology, biology, forensics, logic, mechanical engineering, etc. Then he goes and learns less traditional skills - martial arts, special forces tactics, what-have-you. At this point, you realize that Batman is a freaking genius... and then you have him begin to fight regular crime. The Red Hood shows up as a criminal enforcer, falls in a vat as per the typical Batman story, with Joker walking up the banks. We're only about forty-five or fifty minutes in at this point, though, and Batman has the next hour and a half to deal with his personal life and the new madman terrorizing Gotham, The Clown Prince of Crime. In a post-credits scene, Joker is in a straight jacket at a table, and a doctor walks in, saying, "My name is Doctor Crane. I'm here to help you with your mental instability."

2. The Last Son of Krypton - Screw going from the original films. Just take Superman, follow the "Birthright" story up until Superman actually appears in Metropolis, and then take a slight twist. Luthor still wants to take down Superman, but instead of holograms of Kryptonian invaders combined with actual attacks, Luthor creates Bizarro. (Yes, I'm sort of taking an idea from the plot for The Incredible Hulk. Superman is closer to Hulk than Captain America, when you think about it, so bear with me.) Superman wins, everybody's happy, "Up, up, and away!" Post-credits scene, Lois Lane walks in to the Daily Planet news room carrying a copy of a Gotham news paper with a clear head line of "The Batman Strikes Again". Clark asks her what that is, and she says, "Proof to Perry that finding out every detail about costumed vigilantes is next to impossible," tossing it on Clark's desk, and leaving Clark with a thoughtful look on his face.

3. The Dark Knight - Unfortunately, this version of TDK wouldn't be Nolan's vision. Heck, it might even be called something else. The Scarecrow winds up being the villain for this one, with his constant use of fear creating a lot of paranoia throughout Gotham. Criminals become more violent, civilians distrust everything, and Batman, in spite of being on the side of the police, becomes viewed with more and more suspicion. When Batman finally discovers Crane is behind it all, things have gone to a fever pitch. Crane has used his influence to release some of Arkham's more dangerous criminals, and Batman has to capture each of them, one after the other (think Knightfall without Bane's ultimate goal of breaking the Bat). Batman catches Scarecrow in the middle of it, and we finish, yet again, with a showdown with The Joker. A post-credits scene has Superman appearing on a rooftop where Batman is observing Gotham, and saying, "It must be difficult, always saving everybody on your own." "You're one to talk." "If you're ever interested in working with some allies, look me up in Metropolis. I won't be hard to find." He flies off, and Batman shakes his head before gliding down off of the roof.

4. Green Lantern - Okay, it's basically Hal Jordan's origin story, as told in the comics. Sinestro starts as Hal's mentor only to turn in to the villain. However, in this telling, Jordan is responsible for the uprising on Korugar, which Sinestro has suppressed. Sinestro uses plenty of examples for why he did such a thing, including, "a rogue man from a planet in your own star system that killed off almost his entire race", but they fail to sway Hal. Vowing revenge, Sinestro goes to target Earth, Hal fails to stop him before he heads there, and Jordan must recruit other Lanterns to stop Sinestro from turning Earth in to another Korugar. Jordan gets in to a huge battle against Sinestro, with other Lanterns joining Hal in the fight. Sinestro is defeated, captured, tried, and exiled to Qward. Post-credits scene, we see Sinestro with an unnamed blacksmith, saying, "You say you can channel fear - I am willing to help you turn that fear in to a weapon," as a yellow light burns in the blacksmith's forge.

5. Wonder Woman - You basically go with Diana's actual origin story, with Steve Trevor crash-landing on the Amazon's home island, Diana getting chosen to take him home, and having to learn the ways of the modern world. She winds up fighting crime in her new adopted city (Central City for the time being), with Steve being her guide. Meanwhile, forensic scientist Barry Allen (for the sake of saving time, because we can't have origin movies for everybody) is forced to look in to every single crime she stops, mostly because they all happen to have similar MOs for how they're stopped. Eventually seeing the influence she's having on the world as Wonder Woman, the god Ares challenges her, as she is not a hero for the Gods, but a hero for humanity. It leads to a long fight, and one scene shows Barry in his crime lab, with chemicals surrounding him (including some samples involving his investigation of Wonder Woman), before Wonder Woman gets thrown through both walls, and Ares charges after him causing the chemicals to all crash down on to Barry. In spite of the destruction Diana winds up saving the day. Near the end, Superman shows up and talks to her about whether or not she could use an ally. She says that she's considering moving, since the only man to whom she has attachment when she's not in costume has gained a new job in New York, and she's managed to get work with the UN, so maybe he should let her settle in first. Post-credits, we see the rubble of the crime lab, before Barry, slightly incorporeal, walks through the rubble, before solidifying, then freaking out and running out of the lab in a streak.

This all finally culminates in (and this is going to get a lot more detail, and also assumes that somebody would have gone in a direction similar and yet somewhat different to The Avengers):

6. Justice League - We start off with Bruce learning from Wayne Enterprises telescopic satellites that there's something coming to Earth. It's burning bright yellow, and it's traveling incredibly fast, and it's emitting a power unlike anything known to man. More than that, it seems to be sentient. Bruce begins to make preparations. Later, as Batman, he runs in to Superman, who once again offers an alliance. This time, Batman readily accepts, saying that there might be a global threat coming, and if Superman has any other allies, he should gather them together. Wonder Woman is shown handily defeating Cheetah (otherwise unnamed) at the New York docks, dumping her in the water before tying her up with a regular rope, taking special care to bind her wrists. Superman shows up and tells her that Batman has found out about something that might be a danger to Earth, and she readily agrees to help. In Central City, The Flash has become the town's hero, and after a showdown with Captain Cold, he shares a conversation with Superman ("So, there actually is a welcoming committee for superheroes?" "Not quite. I'm need your help to save the world.") and agrees to join this "League of super friends, or whatever you plan on naming it, Superman".

Meanwhile, Lex Luthor has seen the same thing that Wayne did, and decides that now is a perfect time to mount another attack on the Man of Steel, what with an extraterrestrial attack . Another Bizarro is sent out, and this one ambushes Clark when he's flying off to try and find a meeting spot for the team. Although Bizarro almost defeats Superman, he manages to succeed - in the foothills of Colorado (a lot of forests out that way). This attracts J'onn J'onzz, the Martian Manhunter, who sees Superman and tells him to leave. Superman, saying he doesn't want any trouble, but then J'onn transforms in to his Manhunter physical appearance. Superman accuses J'onzz of being the invader, and suddenly, the two have a gigantic fight. The two go at it for quite a while, with neither man willing to admit the large understanding - right up until a big green construct of circus clowns sprays both men with green seltzer water. Hal Jordan comes down in full Green Lantern gear, accuses them of siding with Sinestro, and after a three-way battle occurs, they all realize they're on the same side. After contacting the three other human would-be-members of the "League" ("What does this have to do with sports?" "All this time on Earth, and you still don't know about synonyms?" "Oh, you're referring to a group such as your League of Nations." "Bad frame of reference.") because he's found something on the West Coast that should suffice for now as a meeting point. Flash runs there, Bruce uses an air drop, Diana uses her invisible jet ("It's amazing what the gods give you if you just ask.") and the other three just fly there.

After an extended meeting, with Hal trying exceedingly hard to convince them that Sinestro is an extremely dangerous threat, not one but TWO Bizarros attack them. They have to work together to take them down, but finally, a very PISSED Aquaman saves them, with the one Bizarro they can't beat going down by means of some serious fish slapping. After learning of the danger to Earth, Arthur is unsure of how he might help, but vows to be a part of this team that Superman has decided to bring together. At that moment, Superman reveals that they're near Coast City. Batman states that that's the approximate point of impact for whatever is coming - GL corrects him, saying that it's Sinestro. Aquaman recognizes that he's going to be more useful than he expected, and uses his skills to immediately go to Coast City. GL then realizes that Sinestro, knowing who he really is, has plenty of reasons for making that the center of his attack, and flies off. The rest of the team also uses their powers to go to the fight. Batman recognizes that if the attack is imminent, he can't get there on his own in time - he already sent his ride home, since he was thinking of handling some personal business while he was in the area. Wonder Woman decides to give him a ride in her jet, which can travel at ... they never quite say, but she says it's well beyond anything any human craft can do. Sinestro arrives just in time to run in to Jordan, Superman, J'onn, Arthur, and Flash, as he's gone to the waterside. Sinestro shows amusement at the team Jordan has brought - "Green, blue, orange, red... what, couldn't find somebody willing to wear purple?" After a bit of dialogue, Sinestro opens a boom tube, and a huge army ("Courtesy of Qward") pours out before the tube closes.

GL is left to deal with Sinestro on his own, while the others go off to handle the gigantic army. Wonder Woman's jet gets to the other edge of the city before they see the threat, and Batman tells Wonder Woman, "Superman obviously underestimated this threat," before going to the exit hatch. Wonder Woman asks what he's doing, and he says, "What Superman brought us here to do," before dropping out and gliding over the city. Meanwhile, Sinestro and Hal are dueling, and it has gone far from the city. Arthur is trying to keep some of the army occupied at the water line, while Flash is using his speed to save people on the ground, and Superman and J'onn are taking on any arial troops they can find. Hal finally gets blasted to the center of the city, landing on top of a skyscraper where Batman happens to be taking down any Qwardian soldier foolish enough to land near him, with a drop kick sending the last of them off the roof. Hal crashes next to him, and Batman stands, before looking directly at Sinestro. Sinestro uses a yellow construct, trying to throw Batman off the building, but it has no effect on the Caped Crusader. He tries again, and fails. Batman then says, "Your ring operates off of fear, doesn't it? It won't work on me - when I don this hood, I become fear." This results in a straight-up fight between Sinestro and Batman, with Sinestro using his ring to out-maneuver the Bat, before finally grabbing him and throwing him off the roof, ripping his cape in the process. As Batman seems to fall to his doom, Jordan attacks Sinestro, and the two begin a battle. With Batman still falling, Superman finally saves him and says, "Now do you see what I meant by help?" The battle proceeds with the six non-Lantern league members fighting all of the soldiers, while Hal and Sinestro go at it. Just as it looks like Sinestro is about to win, Barry suddenly shows up at the top of the building, builds up a whirl wind, and blasts Sinestro in to the ocean. Jordan wonders how he managed to do that, since Sinestro could have stopped him with a thought construct. Allen replies, "It took some trial and error, but I found out a while back that I can move faster than the speed of thought - I gotta' be real careful, though. Either way, he's all yours." The battle continues at a frenzied pace.

Eventually, the entire army is beaten back to the ocean, with angry sea creatures at their back, as per Aquaman's instructions. Sinestro goes flying right to the middle of them, with green energy fading off of him. Wonder Woman, Manhunter, Superman, Batman, Aquaman, and Flash are in an angled formation, looking at Sinestro, when Hal floats down in to the center, demanding Sinestro's surrender. He replies, "Never," and Batman says, "We respect your decision," before Jordan flat-out cold-cocks him with his ring hand. The rest of the army, seeing they've been defeated, retreats back to Qward through a boom tube. Jordan grabs the unconscious Sinestro with a mental construct, removes the yellow ring (causing Sinestro's clothing to revert to a blue and black pattern), and moves to leave. Superman asks Jordan what he's going to do with Sinestro, and Jordan says, "See that justice is done," before flying off and disappearing in to a green boom tube. The Flash remarks that that isn't a bad idea for a name, and Batman simply says, "The Justice League. Fitting," before starting to walk away, and telling Wonder Woman, "I can catch my own ride home from here." Superman looks at the rest of them and says, "I suppose I'll let everyone know if we need to do this again."

Later, in Gotham, Batman is on a roof top. Reminiscent of their first meeting, Superman flies quietly down next to him. Batman looks over and says, "Another global threat?" "No - I'm just making sure that you're still willing to be part of the team." "I'm not much of a joiner. But I will say this - if something like what we just fought comes to Earth again, we might not be able to stop it from coming, but I will help you bring whoever or whatever it is to justice." And he once again flies off in to the night. The words "Justice League" go across the screen, a la Batman Begins and The Dark Knight, cue credits. If you want a post-credits scene, go ahead and toss Darkseid in there.

So, there you go. In retrospect, I'm glad that DC didn't try to pull off a Justice League series like that. It would have been cool to see "The New Frontier" as a live-action film instead of an animated feature, though. Either way, even with all of that, Marvel pulled off a better version of what I'm imagining DC could have done if they actually coordinated or gave a damn about their live action film franchises besides Batman. I'm still glad that we got The Avengers instead of Justice League, and I read more DC titles. Just goes to show just how awesome Joss Whedon can be when his fans aren't clamoring for something that nobody else besides his fans wants.

[Universal]

Somebody bothered to track how much time each of the major characters got on-screen in The Avengers. Fairly interesting I guess...

*SPOILERS*

http://www.vulture.c...venger-get.html

With six superheroes, one villain, and a single-eyed super administrator crammed into two hours and twelve minutes of The Avengers, it's only natural that a few cast members had to get shorter shrift than others. Director Joss Whedon pulls off an impressive juggling act to fit all those stars into the same movie, but who comes out on top when it comes to screen time? To satisfy your curiosity and ours, Vulture went and timed how long each of the Avengerssuperheroes — Iron Man, Captain America, Bruce Banner/the Hulk, Thor, Black Widow, and Hawkeye — were in the film for. Here are our findings, with some minor spoilers below.

Methodology: Using the stopwatch setting on the iPhone's clock function, we timed the entire film (opening scene to beginning of end credits, about 2:12:56), marking off when characters came on- and off-screen. Rather than time each and every tiny cut, we took note of the length of scenes in which characters were prominently featured (scenes in which multiple Avengers were present, like the group conversations on the S.H.I.E.L.D. Helicarrier, counted toward each character's tally) as well as multi-second insert shots (nine seconds of Black Widow and Bruce Banner lying injured after the ship is attacked, for example).

We saw the film at two weekend screenings — a 4:50 p.m. Friday afternoon screening at a Battery Park theater and a 10:20 a.m. Sunday morning screening at a Brooklyn multiplex — in order to maximize the chance that we could get a two-seat row near the front to ourselves. (Despite putting the iPhone at the lowest brightness possible and draping a jacket over it, we doubted any other moviegoer would have put up with sitting next to a scribbling, phone-wielding neighbor.) The two screenings allowed us to fact-check timing on particularly quick-cutting scenes and to confirm the moments that got the biggest audience reaction both times: Hulk punching Thor and Hulk slamming Loki. Pure uproarious laughter. Now, to the tally!

Hawkeye: 12:44. It's no surprise that Jeremy Renner's assassin was the recipient of the least screen time. His talent involves being a really good archer with a really awesome collapsible bow and really explosive arrows. His longest scene (2:40) is a conversation with Black Widow following a brawl between the two of them.

Thor: 25:52. Chris Hemsworth gets more than his share of hitting people moments, yet is limited to only one extended dialogue scene — a 2:13-long conversation with brother Loki atop a mountain at night. (Though his perfectly timed "He's adopted" line got maybe the third or fourth biggest laugh of the film.)

Bruce Banner: 28:03 ... if you're combining the double-duty Mark Ruffalo pulls as both Banner and the Hulk (and you really ought to, since the actor donned a motion-capture suit to play the latter). Still, Ruffalo's unchanged mug gets 20:29 minutes of screen time, which is more than is afforded Renner.

Black Widow: 33:35. The most surprising thing to emerge from our little experiment was the fact that Scarlett Johansson's

three-point landing super-assassin got the third-most screen time of all the superheroes. In fact, she got the most unbroken dialogue scenes of any of the six: her introductory interrogation scene (3:14); recruiting Banner in the slums (2:49); a face-off on the Helicarrier with Loki (3:30); and a conversation with Hawkeye following their fight (2:40). Looks like Whedon realized he needed to give one of the film's two strong female characters lots of talk time.

Iron Man: 37:01. Not surprising, given the manner in which the Downey Jr. one-liner has become the most reliable part of a Marvel movie. His Tony Stark also gets several extended dialogue scenes: particularly one with Pepper Potts and Agent Coulson (4:48), and another with Loki right before the film's third-act battle scene (3:52).

Captain America: 37:42. He squeaks by Iron Man, which makes sense, since much of the film's internal debate about selfishness versus selflessness occurs between Chris Evans's Cap and Downey's Stark. He shares substantial scenes with almost every character and is one of the last faces we see on screen, as he rides off on his motorcycle.

Edited May 10, 2012 by Universal

[zero]

That's a fun breakdown... though I definitely think Whedon made each hero - even Hawkeye and Black Widow - feel vital to the story.

[Summers]

Yeah, I was genuinely surprised by Hawkeye's low amount there.. it doesn't feel that short - which is good. They all felt important.

[stokeriño]

Hawkeye does fuck off to go be evil () of course, which has to be considered.

And Cap gets more screen time than Iron Man? Who'd have thunk it, considering our earlier conversation...

[Skummy]

I agree with "this felt like a Marvel comic book turned into a movie" more than any other previous superhero movie but, at the same time, I really, really felt it lacked something. It had plenty of nice moments, and all the big silly fight scenes you'd expect from a superhero team-up movie but...eh. There's absolutely nothing in there that makes me want to see this movie again. Complete lack of substance. Which I guess is because hey comic books, but still. It's Marvel's license to print money, and I kind of expected a little more.

I've not seen Thor or Captain America, so maybe this is all explained in those films, but fuck any movie that doesn't take thirty seconds to get the audience up-to-speed when there's ample opportunity to do so, but the plot was pretty strongly relying on you being remotely emotionally invested in the UNIMAGINABLE TERROR of the big baddy having possession of the mysterious Space Cube. But considering I don't know what the bloody thing is, other than it's capable of doing whatever the plot requires it to at any given moment (it's an energy source! No, it's a portal! We can weaponise it! It's an energy source! Now it opens a portal again! It's sentient or something!), it's very difficult to be in any way invested in it.

Ultimately, the film is constantly telling you THIS IS IMPORTANT, but with very little real indication as to why or what it is, beyond generic "fate of the world hangs in the balance!" hyperbole.

Also, Tony Stark saying something like "Loki knows he needs to kill us first!". Erm, why? Are you going to explain that? Or are we just expected to take that at face-value because, you know, superheroes? A lot of the plot tends to assume that you're just going to automatically think "hey, the Avengers are bad-ass".

The big climatic battle in Manhattan was a bit naff too - it just seemed to be a solid half-hour of watching Iron Man fly around in circles, while Captain America punched some dudes, followed by an excuse for them all to pose together, then some OTT CGI, rinse, repeat. I get it, comic books, but it wasn't exactly dramatic. Also, most ineffectual race of alien super-soldiers since the Putties.

I also got consistently irritated by Hawkeye using a longbow to shoot people who were less than an arrow's length away from him.

That said, Loki was a great villain, there was some fun set-pieces, and it did a better job of building up to the first appearance of the Hulk than any Hulk movie ever has. It was good fun, but comparisons to the Dark Knight? Nah.

[AnnIQ Edison]

I dunno, It seems like this movie needs the others (especially Thor) to work properly but in saying that, I think that's the point. They've essentially said "You need to have seen the movies we put out earlier to understand the basics of what's going on here". The cube has been the focus of the last two movies Marvel released (being Thor and Cap). Going into this without seeing them, with such a strong tie to having had to see them before, seems like you're missing a piece of the puzzle.

It's like seeing Episode V of Star Wars and then complaining that you have no idea what the fuck is happening because you haven't seen the movie before that introduces you to all the elements.

[Josh]

I get what you're saying, and having seen the previous films does greatly enhance your experience, but I don't think this is entirely analogous to the Star Wars saga. Whedon and the producers clearly tried to give first-time viewers a brief crash course in the essential plot points and character histories in about the first third of Avengers.

Plus, there's hardly anything you need to know about Hulk going into this one. You can pretty much skip his film entirely (though I did enjoy that one too.)

[Universal]

Yeah, The Incredible Hulk is a incredibly useless film when it comes to understanding The Avengers.

I personally did NOT see Thor or Captain America before seeing The Avengers and I thought the movie was awesome.

Iron Man and Iron Man 2 are probably the most important, even though much of the Villain story is taken from Thor.

[Skummy]

Obviously the idea is that you need to see all the films for it to really make sense. It's a genius move on Marvel's part, on stretching the idea of a sequel to a new level - rather than there being one previous film to watch in order to understand this one, there's four or five. And now the characters have gone their seperate ways, we can get a solo film from each of them, and potentially new films starring other Marvel heroes...all of which affect one another, and then move in to the next Avengers movie...which will then affect the next wave of solo movies, and so on and so forth. It's a license to print money, it's brilliant, and I can't think of any similar situation in Hollywood history.

That said, it should never be necessary to have seen a previous film in a series to understand the one that you're watching. Especially considering the main plot point is a magic space cube that some of the central characters in the movie have never heard of before, so there's ample excuse to spend a couple of minutes explaining what and why it is.

I don't think Star Wars is a good analogy because - aside from the prequels, which are uniformly awful anyway - the characters are such basic archetypes that you don't really need much of a catch-up beyond the opening text scrawl.

[Summers]

So the characters who don't know exactly what the cube is should tell the audience exactly what it is?

[Skummy]

So the characters who don't know exactly what the cube is should tell the audience exactly what it is?

No, the characters who do know could tell the characters that don't know, and that, by proxy, would explain it to the audience. Would take thirty seconds, and wouldn't seem remotely forced.

[SRN]

Tell me how you really feel about the Avengers, Skummy.

[Skummy]

It was good, clean fun.

[IDOL]

I thought it was explained pretty good in the movie though. Let's go to Captain America for this one. Captain?

"You should have left it in the bottom of the Ocean"...

Right you are Cap!

[Thrilla]

Its a magic space cube that has the potential to give unlimited power and part of that power is that it can open up portals to other worlds, that was all said in the film and I don't see what else needs to be said about it?

I really enjoyed the film and struggled to contain myself at this bit

[therockbox]

Avenger's gender swap.

Before:

After: