The Thread Where We Discuss Golf

[DavidMarrio]

I do like how the tweet from Lee Westwood in respect of the European Super League with a gif of someone doing a snow angel in a pile of money keeps resurfacing ATM. 

Part of me is like if that's what you wanna do then go for it. It's the hypocrisy of people that's annoying aka Lee Westwood in this case. 

[gunnar hendershow]

As my friend said, if he could make three times the money for half the work why wouldn't he take it?

Like, it's unquestionably a better financial decision to join this tour than play on the PGA or a tour with even smaller purses (as many of the South Africans who joined are showing). Don't pretend it's about something else. Maybe it's fair to say "this'll force these other tours to up the money they give to golfers" but acting like you're making some noble sacrifice to help make that happen is dumb as shit.

[Chris2K]

I'm usually a fan of Rory McIlroy as it is, but if he were to win the US Open ahead of deChambeau, Reed, Johnson, Mickelson etc. it would be very enjoyable.

[Adam]

South Yorkshire on top of the world.

Sublime last few days this has been, Fitzpatrick fully deserving of the win.

[gunnar hendershow]

That bunker shot on 18 was really something. Thought it was all set for a 3-man playoff with Scottie and Will, but he pulled off a truly incredible shot.

17 our 18 greens today, really deserved the win. And he joins Jack Nicklaus as the only player to win both a US Amateur and US Open at the same course.

[Chris2K]

At least Rory isn't throwing this away, but I can't see past Cam Smith roaring past him.

The talk is that Smith is joining LIV, so I hope that it doesn't happen.

 

EDIT: And he wins, and immediately refuses to deny he's joining LIV.

[gunnar hendershow]

And today it comes out he's joining LIV to the tune of $90 million. Roughly 40 times what he made at St. Andrews over the weekend.

[Baddar]

Any idea how long this ties them to the LIV tour for, or do they have different deals with everyone in terms of length?

[gunnar hendershow]

There hasn't been a lot of clarity or info with regards to the LIV deals outside of how much they are getting. I'm sure the tour would like to slowly get rid of some of the lesser names in exchange for more and more big names, so I can't envision some of these guys being attached to it for too long.

[Baddar]

Does anyone here actually blame most of these players for signing though, especially those nearing the end of their careers?

I know "Saudi money bad" and everything but they're not alone in that. I do wonder if some of the journalists who have been applying pressure on players regarding LIV had been offered 50x what they earn to report on the tour in Saudi would feel the same way.

Should Cam Smith do it and potentially ruin his chances to go down as a golfing great by winning more majors? I'd rather he didn't, but the money that's on the table has to be extremely tough to turn down.

[Chris2K]

I'd have more sympathy and less hostility towards the LIV players if it wasn't for two things:

- It will always be impossible for me to get behind anyone already making millions of dollars a year deciding they would rather make tens of millions of dollars directly from Saudi Arabia's attempts to deflect their horrific human rights violations.

- The pathetic attempts to justify their decision by saying "we're looking to advance the game in new regions" or "trying to help change the culture". You don't care about what women are going through in Saudi Arabia, you don't care about the LGBT community, you don't care about how many people play golf and where they do it, just admit you went for the money and stop lying.

[METALMAN]

6 hours ago, Baddar said:

Does anyone here actually blame most of these players for signing though, especially those nearing the end of their careers?

Yes

[Adam]

Case in point today, where Henrik Stenson is joining LIV and been forced to give up the Ryder Cup captaincy as a result. LIV have only recruited Stenson to deal a blow to the Ryder Cup, because he is older and hasn't been in good form in ages. For those same reasons they know it's hard for him to turn it down.

LIV is trying to destabilise the existing Golf ecosystem, dealing damage to the majors and Ryder Cup. And all for what? Not just money, but sportswashing Saudi blood money.

[gunnar hendershow]

I don't really know where LIV is going to make money from. TV networks and sponsors are for the most part not touching them so it really is just the PIF putting a ton of money into it for little return. No matter our thoughts on sportswashing the central goal of the PIF is and always has been to convert oil revenue into different revenue streams. And considering any time the topic of this tour comes up the very first subject raised is Saudi Arabia's human rights record it seems counterproductive in that regard.

PGA is maybe not the organization likeliest to figure out how it can further hurt LIV Golf given how comparatively poorly they treat the golfers who make them money. But we'll see what changes they make for the 2023 season to give all their golfers more money.

[The Lusophone]

On 21/07/2022 at 09:16, Baddar said:

Does anyone here actually blame most of these players for signing though, especially those nearing the end of their careers?

100%. Look at the European and American players on this tour - all of them have won millions in prize money in their careers and are likely millionaires. Saying "I'm just securing my and my kids future" only works until you remember that one of those kids were gay, their new benefactors would happily execute them.

 

[METALMAN]

Exactly. I don't think it is too much to ask or expect that people have a moral code. You wouldn't (I assume) mug an old lady coming out of the bank because it's an easy way to make money. It's immoral. You wouldn't (I assume) get involved in money laundering and terrorist financing even though it's an easy way to make money. It's also immoral.

Likewise for participating in anything that benefits a tyrannical, authoritarian, anti-democratic regime that is a disgrace to the world in terms of environmental standards and human rights. If you blindly take the money without asking yourself why and considering where it comes from you are a fool, a patsy and a charlatan (or Eddie Howe).

[Chris2K]

The LIV players' lawsuit against the PGA Tour isn't going well. The three players on the suit who were hoping to be allowed to play in the Fed-Ex Cup (because they qualified for it) have been told to do one, with the judge saying their claims that them being banned is causing them "irreparable harm" are nonsense because they're literally being paid more to play for LIV.

Also, "irreparable harm"? Probably not the best choice of words given the money source.

[gunnar hendershow]

I really don't know how you can sue the PGA when you're not barred from golfing and making more money on a competing tour. I guess they hoped the PGA wouldn't want to deal with a protracted case that brings to light how it doesn't share as much money with golfers as it could? I don't know.

Very funny. I think as long as a US network doesn't pick up LIV TV rights this is going to just be something that cannot make money, and who knows how long the PIF wants to put up with something that isn't remotely profitable.

[METALMAN]

When is the PIF going to start to worry about the harm their association with golf and Newcastle is doing to their image 

[gunnar hendershow]

Mildly humored how the PGA has now been able to magically find more money.

https://www.espn.com/golf/story/_/id/34452133/top-pga-tour-golfers-commit-play-more-events-12-tournaments-purses-15-million-20-million