Official Smackdown vs. Raw Thread

[Docpepper]

they finally listened to the fans for once on the create a ppv and belt ideas . as for some of the roster not making it like billy kidman and such i agree it sucks i for once wish they'd add billy and paul london , but if online is available then the chance of getting updates could be possible. as far as backstage areas go i'm glad they removed most of them hte backstages got boring and repetive to me and now since you've got the parking lot brawl not too much else is needed

[Kaney]

That screen cap Matzat posted does look very cluttered, especially when a finisher is used. Thats another thing that takes away from the game, the stupid flashes of logos that appear all the time. It's unnecessary, and does nothing except impair your vision.

I'm half-and-half with the meter to throw people out. Sure, it makes it that bit more tactical, but it's bloody annoying having to do that all the time. There was one feature I loved in Royale Rumble matches, but it's never been implemented in any SD! game. The bit in Acclaims WWF Attitude, where you could lift someone up in say, a body slam, hold them, walk to the ropes and dump them out. That was so cool, but I doubt they'd ever include it. Just imagine F5ing someone out of the ring, or chokeslamming them instead of whipping them against the ropes, having them hold on, then have to tug-of-war with them to eliminate them. That would rawk.

Onto the annoying part : I will buy this game. I'm not going to splooge my pants over the fact that it's WWE, I'm going to buy it because I enjoy playing it. I'm not expecting an ultra-realistic, thought-provoking tactical game, because I know they'll never make it. And they're not supposed to. The point of Smackdown! is that it's an arcade game. You're supposed to slap it on, and have fun with it. To me, it's not a wrestling simulator, which seems to be the hang up for some people, I see it as a sort of WWE flavoured Tekken. You pick it up, start playing and having fun fighting people you watch on TV.

I hope people accept that THQ are never going to produce a game that has people taking 5 minutes climbing a cage, that have people sell the fall for ages, have Triple H take a half hour break before making a pin, but they won't. The same arguements will appear next year when the next one is released. Which is a bit sad. Yes, okay, maybe SD! 7 won't have a completely new engine, maybe they won't have every single wrestler that works for the WWE in, maybe the will include pointless extra modes, but who cares? It's not supposed to be a new game. It's a sequal. It's supposed to be similar to the last, because they know it works, and it sells.

No ammount of Sean or Matzat calling me a corporate whore or whatever is going to stop me buying the game, because I like having updated modes, updated storylines, updated wrestlers, even if it is the same game engine. What pisses me off is that we don't have a 10 page thread about how Fifa is the exact same thing each year, and how it sucks that it's only got new menu music, and some new players. Oh look! Some players aged since last year! How dare they! Seriously. It's a franchise, it's not going to ever change completely.

The views expressed here are my own, as are any factual errors that exist in the text.

>_>

Edited August 15, 2004 by Kaneanite

[Herr Matzat]

That screen cap Matzat posted

[SeanDMan]

lol Media doesn't stop.

Until anyone can name a better PS2 wrestling game, with (great gameplay in your opinion) and WWE arenas, wrestlers, titles, and the like. SD is what I'm going to play

Wait a minute, aren't you the same guy who said an updated roster wasn't important because you could use the CAW?

Man, now you're just a Smackdown apologist, what a joke, you're just a gigantic waste of time. If you don't want a better game whatever, that's your deal. But making the arguement that you want a realistic game and then praise heaps for Smackdown is fucking rediculous, you must be stoned.

I hope people accept that THQ are never going to produce a game that has people taking 5 minutes climbing a cage, that have people sell the fall for ages, have Triple H take a half hour break before making a pin, but they won't. The same arguements will appear next year when the next one is released. Which is a bit sad. Yes, okay, maybe SD! 7 won't have a completely new engine, maybe they won't have every single wrestler that works for the WWE in, maybe the will include pointless extra modes, but who cares? It's not supposed to be a new game. It's a sequal. It's supposed to be similar to the last, because they know it works, and it sells.

I'm going to quote a passage and replace a few words, but it's basically going to be a straight up steal, just modified for genre.

I hate it when game franchises find the perfect market equillibrium between profitability and mindlessness. It's an unstoppable economic logic that grinds purists into (the mat).

The problem with (Smackdown) is that it's fun, but it's just not (a wrestling game). It's fun in the way (Dead or Alive) is fun. I particularilly enjoy (playing with friends). It's great to (lay him on a table and jump from the top of a hell in the cell, and then both get up five seconds later to continue the match none the worse for wear), or (play through the season mode to unlock stupid movies of the divas that we all find online anyway).

But I want a (wrestling) game.

...

I understand and support capitalism. I'm not one to tell a company to make decisions that'll cost it money. But can't there be some satisfaction for us (wrestling fans)? [As opposed to (the ADD-affected children of wrestling fans), at whom this game is clearly aimed?] Whats the harm in using (great graphics) and (the WWE liscense) and (a good story mode) to add to a fundementally solid (wrestling game), as opposed to substituting for one?

This (WWE)'s just not going to keep me interested, nor is there anything in the online play (loaded with fellow kids ODing on speed who have rediculously low attention spans) to warrant you spending another ($50) for this year's version if you've got either of the last two years' editions.

That's pretty much where the Smackdown series is at. The WWE is fine with throwing in stupid gimmicks to get people who are casual fans to buy in, without refining the system for those who think it lacks. The WWE would only gain followers if they balanced the system, but they won't do it, because they know people will continue to baaa at their whim.

Like Media, who defends their games far past the point of absurity and marks for Randy Boreton. He's never going to see logic, he'll just continue to be a stupid mark, and he's not really worth my time.

Edit:

Kaneanite

Fifa is the exact same thing each year, and how it sucks that it's only got new menu music, and some new players. Oh look! Some players aged since last year! How dare they! Seriously. It's a franchise, it's not going to ever change completely.

I've attacked in the past Madden, EA's NHL, and All-Star Baseball. Since I don't watch Soccer I don't get involved in football threads including Fifa. But I do have a problem with releasing the same game every year. Ecspecially now, when you can download roster packs each year. I mean it would be fine if the games were cheaper. Or if every second year, they made a bunch of changes. But that doesn't happen. Game sells, they rerelease it, they rerelease it, they rerelease it. They did it with Tomb Raider until they drove the franchise into the ground. But with sports and fighting games with a big money liscense attatched, that won't happen, so they will never change.

Edited August 15, 2004 by SeanDMan

[Marsh]

Sean and Matzat, shut the fuck up with the personal attacks on Media. He likes the game, and is telling you why he likes the game in a thread about the game. No need to call him stupid or post fake transcripts.

Just accept that a lot of people actually LIKE the Smackdown games, and as this is a thread about the new Smackdown game, surprise surprise, a lot of fans of the series will post in here. If you like another game then that's fair enough, talk about it in its own thread, don't keep causing arguments in this thread with people that are looking forward to Smackdown.

THANKS.

As for that screenshot of the Rumble, it does look quite cluttered, just like the last game did (although this one moreso). However, if it bothers you then just do what I did on the last game and switch the meters off. Then you can see a lot more of the screen.

[Herr Matzat]

is this a smackdown shrine ore a discusion board Marsh ?

well i agree on keeping it a bit cleaner but if he ignores just every point including the stuff he said himself a few pages ago and so one he just makes himself look stupid, and maybee i said it to loude, but to a certain degree that needs to be alowed to be said.

Edited August 15, 2004 by Michael Matzat

[SeanDMan]

He hasn't justified his like of the game at all, on every point he has been refuted with the exception of it looks good, and if that's the only reason to spend $80 on a game, then anyone who does is stupid.

[Xand]

I can't wait for this game; I didn't get HCTP but I might get this. If it isn't realistic I don't care - I like the Smackdown games.

Those that want realism in a wrestling game will have to wait until the Star Trek Holodecks are a reality.

[SeanDMan]

Those that want realism in a wrestling game will have to wait until the Star Trek Holodecks are a reality.

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lol no

All they have to do is turn the selling up. If they set it up like No Mercy it'd work perfect. The guy is down for a while, and when he get's picked up, he can go behind, or rake the eyes. That's how it works in real wrestling. But, I'm presuming for balance issues, Smackdown lets everyone get up way, way too fast, and it just makes the whole experience stupid and unrealistic.

[Xand]

if I'm honest I've never even seen No Mercy - I've been raised on The Smackdown games and enjoy them.

[SeanDMan]

if I'm honest I've never even seen No Mercy - I've been raised on The Smackdown games and enjoy them.

←

You should see if anyone has it. I know people who even now still play it. I didn't like it at first, because it was a lot slower then the Acclaim games, but it's a lot better.

It's a lot slower then Smackdown, but it is a LOT better.

Edit:

Okay for those who don't know, there are two reversal buttons in No Mercy, L for dodge, and R for counter. When people throw strikes at you, you can hit L to dodge or R to counter. When in a grapple, both buttons work the same.

By pressing it at the right second/button mashing, you can counter a move. Strikes usually are countered by a grapple move (dragon screws on kicks) or a submission (crossface on punches). Each style set has unique counters, and in addition, you can set some of them in CAW, AND some wrestlers have unique counters, AND you can set more then one, AND they can differ when you have special.

Grapples are even better, each grapple meaneuver has about 3 counters on average, some have 2, some have six. They are weight dependent and style dependent. Chris Benoit would counter a suplex with a suplex, Brawshaw with a clothesline, Paul London with an arm drag, etc. Although they are largely automatic, each grappling meaneuver can either be countered with a move or just outright avoided, by slipping under or around, or breaking the grapple, stunning the opponent and leaving the follow up to you. These, too, can differ when on special.

Basically anything that can be done can be countered. Running strikes, irish whips, running grapples, even getting picked up as I said earlier. There are 3 ways to counter the superplex, four if you count the unique special one where you shove him off and immediatly hit your ariel special. There are 3 ways to counter the irish whip, plus 4 ways to dodge blows, plus the ability to hook yourself up on the ropes and or slide under. You can even set how you want to counter grappling ATTEMPTS, and have about 12 choices from the front and six from behind. You can counter ground submission attempts. Basically, the only things you cannot counter are specials, ground strikes, and con hilos. You can dodge all of them, though, so no move in an arsenal will hit %100 of the time.

Except the opponents entrance, of course.

Edited August 15, 2004 by SeanDMan

[kaya]

I only play No Mercy, not out of some sick obsession, but because i sold all my other N64 games, and my HCTP disc died within a month, i only wish they had the Creat a Belt they had in WM2000, in No Mercy, that was awesome fun. My favourite part of NM is the submission system, working body-parts, my CAW finishes with a MMA-style pick up and slam into a Cross-Armbreaker, and it looks really sweet. For some reason in the SD series they just cant seem to animate submissions very well, they all much deadlier in NM, and esp. when you actually get the submission, the submitter sinches the hold even harder and they tap, and the replay of it all after! sweet.

[SeanDMan]

I only play No Mercy, not out of some sick obsession, but because i sold all my other N64 games, and my HCTP disc died within a month, i only wish they had the Creat a Belt they had in WM2000, in No Mercy, that was awesome fun. My favourite part of NM is the submission system, working body-parts, my CAW finishes with a MMA-style pick up and slam into a Cross-Armbreaker, and it looks really sweet. For some reason in the SD series they just cant seem to animate submissions very well, they all much deadlier in NM, and esp. when you actually get the submission, the submitter sinches the hold even harder and they tap, and the replay of it all after! sweet.

←

See, that's why I love No Mercy.

I propose something, how about Media or one of the other Smackdown fans post what they like about Smackdown, what they see as important to a wrestling game, and areas where THEY think the game could use improvement. We'lll just go with HCTP since it was the last released.

Then, we can compare it to other games, see where it comes up short and where it's a better game, THEN maybe you can see why we don't really like the Smackdown games, and why we prefer other games. Because there seems to be an attitude that Matzat and I are anti-Smackdown just for the hell of it, and don't know what we're talking about.

I want to evidence that that's bs.

[Herr Matzat]

IGN insider rumble

http://www.garfield0815.de/videos/

Shit dos the crowed ever suck, and SHITFUCK do the commentators ever suck (you know, KoC has over 130 wrestlers and the commentators still are able to call the over 2800 moves with different voice hardness (depending how much closer the match gets to it´s ending) without cutting each other of over and over again and yet you STILL have collercomentary cut inbetwen the moves)

I actualy think i would still hate sdmackdown if it was the only wrestling game on the planet, it´s just to full of bugs that don´t get fixed over and over again, of cause knowing that it is so easy to make it better dossen´t make the situation for smackdown anny better though, but overall it´s just a bad game, Last Action Hero for SNES did not become a good game becaus it was the only Last Action Hero game, right ? It just was unenjoybell crap, but still soled becaus of some austrian guy.

Edited August 16, 2004 by Michael Matzat

[Colly]

I only play No Mercy, not out of some sick obsession, but because i sold all my other N64 games, and my HCTP disc died within a month, i only wish they had the Creat a Belt they had in WM2000, in No Mercy, that was awesome fun. My favourite part of NM is the submission system, working body-parts, my CAW finishes with a MMA-style pick up and slam into a Cross-Armbreaker, and it looks really sweet. For some reason in the SD series they just cant seem to animate submissions very well, they all much deadlier in NM, and esp. when you actually get the submission, the submitter sinches the hold even harder and they tap, and the replay of it all after! sweet.

←

[Herr Matzat]

def jam hase some of the basics but the overall feel clearly goes more in the direction of a streetfight than a good wrestling match, sadly AKI stoped producing the Virtual Pro wrestling series aswell

http://www.aki.co.jp/lang_e/gameinfo/gameinfo01.html

[Docpepper]

HCTP

Pros: The caw mode . I rarely play with the oriignal superstars I prefer to use caws

all the various modes . some are stupid but when you have friends around they can be fun

the control scheme way better than warzone not as good as no mercy's they are in the middle

Cons: the animations for some moves are reused game after game.

SOme of the wrestlers don't stay down too long(well in HCTp they stay down longer than previous titles)

the lack of indy wrestling moves , entrances and music ( the music and entrances will be better with raw vs smackdown)

im my case the pros outweigh the cons becasue i have alot of friends and we create ourselfs and play tournaments and stuff and with the inclusion of the belt creator and ppv mode in raw vs smackdown it shall be a good time around my house

[Timmoru Suzuki]

I didn't really like Def Jam Vendetta. It was good-ish at first, and as Matzat said, had some good basics, but got really repetative, I found myself just doing the same 3/4 moves in the same sequence to win matches again and again and again, and just got boring and stale quickly. Plus their were some other annoynaces such as not being able to move the opponent away from the ropes, and Tag matches (vital in my book, as I play them the most) were truly awful.

[Asuka's Gonna Kill You]

I only play No Mercy, not out of some sick obsession, but because i sold all my other N64 games, and my HCTP disc died within a month, i only wish they had the Creat a Belt they had in WM2000, in No Mercy, that was awesome fun. My favourite part of NM is the submission system, working body-parts, my CAW finishes with a MMA-style pick up and slam into a Cross-Armbreaker, and it looks really sweet. For some reason in the SD series they just cant seem to animate submissions very well, they all much deadlier in NM, and esp. when you actually get the submission, the submitter sinches the hold even harder and they tap, and the replay of it all after! sweet.

←

See, that's why I love No Mercy.

I propose something, how about Media or one of the other Smackdown fans post what they like about Smackdown, what they see as important to a wrestling game, and areas where THEY think the game could use improvement. We'lll just go with HCTP since it was the last released.

Then, we can compare it to other games, see where it comes up short and where it's a better game, THEN maybe you can see why we don't really like the Smackdown games, and why we prefer other games. Because there seems to be an attitude that Matzat and I are anti-Smackdown just for the hell of it, and don't know what we're talking about.

I want to evidence that that's bs.

←

[kaya]

WCW vs nWo Revenge and World Tour were hugely popular, Revenge was still up until NM was released, Revenge is my second fav. N64 wrestling game because i enjoy, like you said, playing with the different roster. NM and Revenge ARE different though, NM is graphically far superior and the original engine was very well tweaked, playing faster (not too fast), but still maintaining the quality elements of the WCW series.