MMA News and Discussion Thread

[Quom]

I don't get how someone can act like they're an authority on something that is completely subjective? Besides clearly Sakuraba (in the past) or Penn are P4P the best due to being proven at much heavier weights.Totally .

[Fitzy]

I know, right? Give it a rest, Master Shakespeare. Who the fuck cares who someone says is pound for pound the best? Get over it already.

[Mancuerda]

Why the asterisk next to UFC 83? Papered?

EDIT: Uh, alright. I already said I was done.

Edited November 21, 2008 by Master Shakespeare

[Fitzy]

Should've included what that meant, my mistake. It was the only figure from that list that UFC publically announced on their own.

[Mancuerda]

How were the others obtained, or do you know?

But anyway, this proves that Lesnar is a huge draw. While the event was spectacular, on paper none of the fights besides the main event were that significant. However, we know that Florian proved he's a top level Lightweight and we got to see some kickass fights... but you wouldn't have really known that beforehand.

It's clear the fight at the top of the card drew in all the buys, in other words... And the fact it was only surpassed by three highly anticipated rematches (and even beat Rampage versus Liddell, which surprises me), is amazing...

Edited November 21, 2008 by Master Shakespeare

[Fitzy]

The others were all in Las Vegas and I am pretty the Athletic Commission gives that out.

[Mancuerda]

I really really want this book.

Considering getting it for Christmas...

Anyway, I think I'd rather see Anderson Silva take on Keith Jardine than Chuck Liddell. Jardine has beaten Liddell (and is coming off a win over Brandon Vera, a former Heavyweight contender turned Light Heavyweight). Liddell is coming off a loss to Rashad Evans.

Jardine has better striking that doesn't leave himself open for Silva's awesome striking skills, so he'd be a tougher challenge. But I understand Chuck Liddell is a much bigger money draw, and that's largely the reason they're doing it...

But still, the principle of the thing. Also, I urge everyone to watch the Okami fight if they can. While Silva was controlling the standup, Okami successfully took Silva down. Silva delivered an illegal kick to the head when Okami was trying to pass his guard (Okami was on his knees, so a kick to the head is an illegal move), and that ended the match.

This fight was more than two years ago, and I think if Okami does get his rightful shot soon, he could have a real chance at beating Silva if he can take him down to the ground. He has to know Silva's stand up game quite well now, and the announcers were bragging on Okami's great ground skills, so I think it'd be an awesome fight.

I just want Silva to have a real challenge, not an opponent that is easy for him based on style who will be a money draw. I know it's a business, but I want the 'best fighter in the world' to have adequate challenges. Chuck Liddell, in this day and age, holding his hands wide, is not a big challenge for Silva.

[Quom]

As much as he talks about wanting to fight the best, I can't imagine that goes for LHW. To the casual fan beating Liddell is going to make him look phenomenal, whereas there would be no pay off to the risk he would face taking on Jardine, if he won it would be a meh type reaction whereas a loss would do him huge damage. I don't see him taking a 50/50 fight at LHW unless it's for the belt.

Edit. Meh I'd rather be shown by a decent kick boxer how to strike than try and figure it out from a book.

Edited November 23, 2008 by QuomQuat

[Mancuerda]

I'm hoping the book would also include, like a lot of these types of instructional books, some other things... like commentary from Silva, some cool insight into how he trains maybe, and some other things.

Of course, it can't compare with http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DghW3qL80Ig.

EDIT:

Fuck having them fight. We need a goddamn

Edited November 23, 2008 by Master Shakespeare

[Quom]

That's the techno viking.

It's good to see a lighter side of Silva, I always thought he was mega serious and uptight.

Edited November 23, 2008 by QuomQuat

[tristy]

has anyone else heard about Liddell possibly going to the heavyweight division to face Couture in Germany at what's likely to be UFC 100?

[Quom]

Makes sense. It isn't like Randy's any bigger really at HW than LHW. Plus Chuck wants to keep his gut. Same opinion on it as the Franklin Silva LHW fight. The difference will be negligible, it will just save them having to make the cut.

Having said that it's a fight I'm up for. Although if it's their next fight it could potentially be career ending for one of them I think. Chuck is in a perilous position and if he beat Randy, Randy would be in a worse position than Chuck is now.

I'd probably either feed Liddell a can first, or have him fight Silva, to either help his reputation or to get full value from him. I wonder who the final fighter of Randy's three fight deal would be provided Chuck is the second and he beats Randy?

Edited November 23, 2008 by QuomQuat

[Thrilla]

but the guy hasn't fought an elite opponent since 05 when he beat Cro Cop.

TIM SYLVIA... man. Tim Sylvia is the same guy Randy Couture defeated for his Heavyweight Title. Tim Sylvia is the same guy Antonio Rodrigo Noguiera defeated for his Heavyweight Title. And guess what? Randy could only beat him by decision. Antonio beat him in the third round. Fedor EMBARRASSED him and beat him in 36 seconds...

I've been away for a couple a couple of days so I'm a little slow to this, but that may be one of the funniest things I've read on this board. Tim Sylvia an elite fighter? You must be having a laugh.

[Guest Mr. Potato Head]

Silva needs to fight Liddell.

[Mancuerda]

but the guy hasn't fought an elite opponent since 05 when he beat Cro Cop.

TIM SYLVIA... man. Tim Sylvia is the same guy Randy Couture defeated for his Heavyweight Title. Tim Sylvia is the same guy Antonio Rodrigo Noguiera defeated for his Heavyweight Title. And guess what? Randy could only beat him by decision. Antonio beat him in the third round. Fedor EMBARRASSED him and beat him in 36 seconds...

I've been away for a couple a couple of days so I'm a little slow to this, but that may be one of the funniest things I've read on this board. Tim Sylvia an elite fighter? You must be having a laugh.

I don't like him, but he beat Andrei Arlovski twice. People are saying, "Ooh, if Fedor beats Arlovski, then maybe that would prove something!"

He beat Tim Sylvia. Tim Sylvia beat Arlovski twice. Besides Nogueira, Sylvia was probably the most legitimate heavyweight Fedor could fight at the time...

He's still ranked #7 or #8 in Sherdog's rankings, and considering the three people he's lost to over the last couple years are Couture, Nogueira, and Fedor (three elite Heavyweights), I'd say that puts him on a pretty high pedestal.

I still think he's an apeish looking motherfucker who doesn't know how to fight, but his record speaks for itself.

[Summers]

I always liked Jardine, one of my favourite fighters, I want to see him get some chances.

His dancing is also amazing. Jesus.

[Thrilla]

but the guy hasn't fought an elite opponent since 05 when he beat Cro Cop.

TIM SYLVIA... man. Tim Sylvia is the same guy Randy Couture defeated for his Heavyweight Title. Tim Sylvia is the same guy Antonio Rodrigo Noguiera defeated for his Heavyweight Title. And guess what? Randy could only beat him by decision. Antonio beat him in the third round. Fedor EMBARRASSED him and beat him in 36 seconds...

I've been away for a couple a couple of days so I'm a little slow to this, but that may be one of the funniest things I've read on this board. Tim Sylvia an elite fighter? You must be having a laugh.

I don't like him, but he beat Andrei Arlovski twice. People are saying, "Ooh, if Fedor beats Arlovski, then maybe that would prove something!"

He beat Tim Sylvia. Tim Sylvia beat Arlovski twice. Besides Nogueira, Sylvia was probably the most legitimate heavyweight Fedor could fight at the time...

He's still ranked #7 or #8 in Sherdog's rankings, and considering the three people he's lost to over the last couple years are Couture, Nogueira, and Fedor (three elite Heavyweights), I'd say that puts him on a pretty high pedestal.

I still think he's an apeish looking motherfucker who doesn't know how to fight, but his record speaks for itself.

Sylvia/Arlovski II was a good victory for Sylvia but he did almost lose that fight early on, he rallied and caught Arlovski with an uppercut during a punching exchange, which given his reach advantage was always a major possibility. The third fight was perhaps the dullest fight ever, I remember it being five rounds of neither man engaging whatsoever and Sylvia eeked out a points decision, it was awful, Arlovski didn't seem interested and Sylvia didn't press the fight, its weird to say but that rubber match didn't prove anything in my opinion. Since then Arlovski has gone away and refocussed, he's always been a better MMA fighter than Sylvia but mentally he seemed to loose interest once he became the UFC Champ, that doesn't seem to be the case anymore and with Arlovski's extensive Sambo background, submissions game and great stand up he is easily going to be a bigger test for Fedor than Tim Sylvia who came into the Fedor fight overweight and uninterested.

And I don't know how many times you need telling but no one here gives a shit about Sherdog's rankings.

[IAceI]

For what feels like the 100th time in the past few weeks, Fedor says he wants a new challenge for himself. The way I see it though, the Heavyweight division is far from stacked with talent at the moment and with Emelienenko wanting a fight with either Couture or it seems mainly Lesnar at the minute - he's not really in a position to try and negotiate much his way anyways. A while back it was a case of Couture wanted Fedor and was trying to find a way to do that, now it seems it's sort of flipped and now Fedor is in the weak spot. He's the best heavyweight fighter in the world, but a lot of people don't particularly care about him.

Much like wrestling, MMA is about appealing to your audience demographics - and a lot of MMA fans will pretty much be tuned in on UFC and not a lot else. So when fights like Anderson Silva vs. Chuck Liddell are thrown around and we moan that it's not a big enough fight for Silva or whatever, when in fact from the UFC's viewpoint - it's absolutely huge. Everyone knows Chuck Liddell... he was in a Nickelback video for Christ's sake!... Maybe not the greatest argumentative point there but it still stands, Liddell is a huge name so if Silva were to come and destroy him - that'd be big.

Slightly off track now. So if Fedor wants the big fights with Couture, Lesnar.. Nog again, he's going to have to come to the UFC to do it. Lesnar isn't going to leave his lovely little payday that is the UFC to fight Fedor, if Fedor wants that fight so much he's going to have to come to Lesnar. And lets be fair, Lesnar isn't going to rush into fighting Fedor anytime soon anyways - he's far from a polished article and still has massive amounts of work to do, but the potential is all there.

If Fedor wants these fights so much he's going to have to come and get them. Until then he can sit on the top of his pedestal and fight off the likes of Arlovski, Werdum now that he's been released should that be the case, etc. but if he wants Couture and Lesnar as much as he says he does and as much as he goes on and on about it he's going to have to come to the UFC to do it and not expect his whole extended family and friends to get contracts and money out of it. And the Couture match is evaporating fast with Couture's age and the like, still the possibility for a Lesnar fight is there in the distant future.

I'm a massive Fedor fan, and think that he's a phenomenal talent but I'm just getting bored of looking on a news website and seeing "Fedor wants Lesnar" "Fedor wants new challenge, targets Lesnar, Couture" "Fedor ready for big fight". At the end of the day UFC aren't going to acknowledge M-1 and Affliction etc. as moderate threats to their affairs or co-promote events, and I'm sure as far as Dana is concerned he's in the drivers seat in terms of the heavyweight division talent and I wouldn't be surprised to see a photo of Fedor licking Dana's boots to get his wanted fight with Lesnar one day.

I needed to vent that after logging on MMAJunkie just before and seeing Fedor yet again telling the world how he wants a new challenge.

[Mancuerda]

For what feels like the 100th time in the past few weeks, Fedor says he wants a new challenge for himself. The way I see it though, the Heavyweight division is far from stacked with talent at the moment and with Emelienenko wanting a fight with either Couture or it seems mainly Lesnar at the minute - he's not really in a position to try and negotiate much his way anyways. A while back it was a case of Couture wanted Fedor and was trying to find a way to do that, now it seems it's sort of flipped and now Fedor is in the weak spot. He's the best heavyweight fighter in the world, but a lot of people don't particularly care about him.

Much like wrestling, MMA is about appealing to your audience demographics - and a lot of MMA fans will pretty much be tuned in on UFC and not a lot else. So when fights like Anderson Silva vs. Chuck Liddell are thrown around and we moan that it's not a big enough fight for Silva or whatever, when in fact from the UFC's viewpoint - it's absolutely huge. Everyone knows Chuck Liddell... he was in a Nickelback video for Christ's sake!... Maybe not the greatest argumentative point there but it still stands, Liddell is a huge name so if Silva were to come and destroy him - that'd be big.

Slightly off track now. So if Fedor wants the big fights with Couture, Lesnar.. Nog again, he's going to have to come to the UFC to do it. Lesnar isn't going to leave his lovely little payday that is the UFC to fight Fedor, if Fedor wants that fight so much he's going to have to come to Lesnar. And lets be fair, Lesnar isn't going to rush into fighting Fedor anytime soon anyways - he's far from a polished article and still has massive amounts of work to do, but the potential is all there.

If Fedor wants these fights so much he's going to have to come and get them. Until then he can sit on the top of his pedestal and fight off the likes of Arlovski, Werdum now that he's been released should that be the case, etc. but if he wants Couture and Lesnar as much as he says he does and as much as he goes on and on about it he's going to have to come to the UFC to do it and not expect his whole extended family and friends to get contracts and money out of it. And the Couture match is evaporating fast with Couture's age and the like, still the possibility for a Lesnar fight is there in the distant future.

I'm a massive Fedor fan, and think that he's a phenomenal talent but I'm just getting bored of looking on a news website and seeing "Fedor wants Lesnar" "Fedor wants new challenge, targets Lesnar, Couture" "Fedor ready for big fight". At the end of the day UFC aren't going to acknowledge M-1 and Affliction etc. as moderate threats to their affairs or co-promote events, and I'm sure as far as Dana is concerned he's in the drivers seat in terms of the heavyweight division talent and I wouldn't be surprised to see a photo of Fedor licking Dana's boots to get his wanted fight with Lesnar one day.

I needed to vent that after logging on MMAJunkie just before and seeing Fedor yet again telling the world how he wants a new challenge.

Well, I agree with about 75% of what you said, though some of the comments were a little over the top.

First, Fedor doesn't want his whole family signed. I know, I know, hyperbole, whatever. M-1, which pretty much handles all his dealings and shit, wanted to co-promote it with UFC. I don't see why not. They did it with Affliction. They've done it elsewhere. Whatever, though, UFC doesn't want to work with other promotions.

Second, the whole licking of the boots thing, yeah right... I'm sure you're joking, so I won't say much else, other than you're dreaming if you think Fedor is that desperate to get into UFC.

And finally, I'll just say I don't want Fedor to go to UFC for a few reasons. I think for the industry to thrive, we need a top talent, an elite fighter who doesn't go to the number one promotion in the world of fighting. We need him to stay away for there to be any real chance of other companies establishing themselves.

And as far as challenges go, there's also Josh Barnett. So you've got Arlovski (who Fedor will beat), Werdum (who Fedor will beat), and Barnett (who would pose the greatest challenge, before Fedor beats him). Other than that, I guess there's "Big" Ben Rothwell out there eating cheeseburgers or something...

But yeah, I get as sick of that shit as you do. I don't like seeing the #1 Heavyweight in the World have to look desperate trying to get meaningful fights. The thing is, though, he doesn't have shit to prove. He beat the #2 fighter twice. That alone is enough of an accomplishment that he doesn't have shit left to do. Until somebody else rises up... say if Lesnar manages to beat Nogueira should they fight to unify the Heavyweight Titles, then maybe Fedor would have something to prove. But right now, he's sitting pretty. He has nothing to prove. He's beaten every conceivable type of opponent in every possible way.

I don't think he'll ever fight Randy, though. Couture isn't as desirable a fight anymore, plus Fedor himself said he likes Randy and would rather not fight someone he has a connection with like that, where they're friends and like each other...

I'd like to see Fedor versus Lesnar a year or so from now when Lesnar is about at the peak of his learning process, and Fedor will have disposed of a few more top level heavyweights and gained some name recognition.

Oh, and one more thing, as far as you sort of implying nobody gives a shit about Fedor in the States, saying that a lot of people don't care about him, Fedor versus Sylvia did a fine job selling out for Affliction's first PPV.

And uh, another thing... heh... I wouldn't really want Fedor to go to UFC for one more reason: The Octagon. Fedor fights in rings, not cages.

[IAceI]

I never said no one gave a shit about Fedor in the States what so ever. But you have to know there's a massive proportion of people out there who may watch MMA but only really know about UFC and fighters like Couture, Lesnar, Liddell. I know it was quite big in my old school, but only two or three of us could actually name more than 10 actual fighters - although there was a massive group of people who liked it.

So I didn't say no one gave a shit about Fedor in the States. But there will be plenty of people who watch MMA but don't really know of him, or know enough to warrant watching him more. While he'll do a very good job of promoting himself in other promotions we all know that will lead to people just saying that he's good but until he fights the best in the UFC he won't be seen as their best. I know, I know, it's narrow mindedness. Unfortunately not everyone who watches MMA is clued up like us lot on here, got to look at the other demographics as well.

The "licking boots" bit was a joke, no need to make a comment on that or anything further. Just a harmless joke.

Also your comment of "First, Fedor doesn't want his whole family signed. I know, I know, hyperbole, whatever. M-1, which pretty much handles all his dealings and shit, wanted to co-promote it with UFC. I don't see why not. They did it with Affliction. They've done it elsewhere. Whatever, though, UFC doesn't want to work with other promotions." appears to be in reference to the wrong thing, I was referring to the first time Fedor and UFC had well known negotiations where Fedor was apparently expecting UFC to offer contracts to his Red Devil Teammates.. which there is a good 20 of I think, and of them the only ones I think who could make a big impact in the UFC? Fedor, Aleksander and Gegard Mousasi. Think you got yourself mixed up as to what I was referring to there - if you did know what I was referring to there then sorry - I didn't realise.