The England thread

[Marcos]

[Adam]

Playing English players from big teams who suck needs to stop. I cannot remember the last time England played well in a competitive fixture against any team who isn't a bunch of postmen.

[Matticus]

I like the excuse Roy used that he didn't make any subs as he had no one on the bench who could alter the course of the game.

Then why on earth did you pick them to be on the bench ffs?

[Adam]

I like the excuse Roy used that he didn't make any subs as he had no one on the bench who could alter the course of the game.

Then why on earth did you pick them to be on the bench ffs?

He has to pick a 23 man squad (or whatever it is) and all of those players are automatically on the bench. He couldn't just call up 11 players.

For different reasons though, I find that excuse to be a very weak one from Roy.

[Jimmy]

That is a shit excuse.

I still don't understand why we both calling up wingers when we're going to play people who aren't wingers on the wing. But my God, we just lack a striker; an out and out goalscorer. We haven't had one since Owen and it's just depressing. Defoe's the closest we've got and that says something.

[Nerf]

It was painfully obvious we needed an extra midfielder as we were getting overrun in the middle of the park. Is Roy telling me that Scott Parker or Frank Lampard couldn't have steadied the ship at least a little bit?

[Matticus]

I like the excuse Roy used that he didn't make any subs as he had no one on the bench who could alter the course of the game.

Then why on earth did you pick them to be on the bench ffs?

He has to pick a 23 man squad (or whatever it is) and all of those players are automatically on the bench. He couldn't just call up 11 players.

For different reasons though, I find that excuse to be a very weak one from Roy.

Yeah, I mean one part of his job is to pick a 23 man squad to get the job done. He then turns around with his hands up in the air saying there wasn't anyone who could do the job on the bench....

[Pesci]

This is what happens when you hire a manager used to overachieving by finishing mid-table. I think Hodgson's a good manager (even after his dreadful spell at Liverpool), but he clearly wasn't the man for England.

In his defence he doesn't exactly have an embarrassment of riches at his disposal and on paper it's actually a pretty tough group... but we should be much better than Montenegro and it's not looking likely that we'll qualify now.

Edited March 27, 2013 by Pesci

[TCO]

This is what happens when you hire a manager used to overachieving by finishing mid-table. I think Hodgson's a good manager (even after his dreadful spell at Liverpool), but he clearly wasn't the man for England.

In his defence he doesn't exactly have an embarrassment of riches at his disposal and on paper it's actually a pretty tough group... but we should be much better than Montenegro and it's not looking likely that we'll qualify now.

Except it's not. Montenegro, Poland, Ukraine, Moldova and San Marino is far from a tough group. Apart from Montenegro, everybody in England's group were in the bottom 4 of there respective pots.This includes drawing the worst possible teams of the 4th and 6th seeds. Statistically it's one of the easiest groups England could've hoped for.

[Matt]

I didn't watch the game but looking at the line up and Johnson, Smalling, Lescott, Cleverley and Welbeck just scream average to me, throw in that Gerrard is a poor imitation of the player he was 5 years ago and Rooney is always gash for England and I'm not surprised that we can't beat a fairly decent Montenegro side. We're not good and we haven't been for about 10 years now.

[brenchill]

Rooney played alright for a change. He looked very good in the first half. But I agree on Smalling, Welbeck and Cleverley. Are they just in the squad because they play for Man Utd? I think they are. But then again, maybe they are just the best English players available. It's not like 96 - 2006 when all of our players were regulars for top sides in England.

[Colly]

I find racism confusing these days.

[Matt]

My understanding is that if you call Rio Ferdinand a cunt, then you're doing it because you're racist and not just calling a spade a spade.

[brenchill]

The chant was: 'Build a bonfire, build a bonfire, put Rio on the top, put Anton in the middle, then burn the f****** lot.'

Yeah, that's not racist. They just think you're a cunt, Rio.

[Matt]

To be fair, I'd not seen that, everything I'd seen was just "Rio is a wanker" type chants. And although there's a fair chance it is, the above chant isn't necessarily racist -you're making the assumption that "the fucking lot" means black people when it could just mean the bonfire... probably not though.

[brenchill]

I know West Brom fans sing it about their local rivals and I'm sure many others do. Put Villa in the middle, etc, burn the fucking lot.

When I first read the chant, I didn't read "the lot" as being all black people, that's absurd. I just read it as "the lot" being everyone who they've put on the bonfire.

[Matt]

I thought you were being facetious with your last response. I can see how it could be mistaken as being racist if you've never heard the chant elsewhere... I've not heard it before, to the best of my recollection.

[Nerf]

I didn't watch the game but looking at the line up and Johnson, Smalling, Lescott, Cleverley and Welbeck just scream average to me, throw in that Gerrard is a poor imitation of the player he was 5 years ago and Rooney is always gash for England and I'm not surprised that we can't beat a fairly decent Montenegro side. We're not good and we haven't been for about 10 years now.

No, no and no.

I'll give you that Smalling, Lescott and Welbeck shouldn't be anywhere near the England team, but Johnson has been consistently great all season for us, Cleverley is really coming on (and I didn't used to rate him that much) and Gerrard was one of the best players in the Euros last year, let alone just for us. Plus the fact he's been in top form for us since about November. Yeah, he's not what he was five years ago, but "poor imitation?" Not a chance.

[brenchill]

I thought you were being facetious with your last response. I can see how it could be mistaken as being racist if you've never heard the chant elsewhere... I've not heard it before, to the best of my recollection.

No, I don't think it was racist. I agree with what you are saying.

I'm only aware of West Brom fans singing it, that's probably down to them being in the middle of Wolves, Walsall, Villa and Blues.

[Matt]

I didn't watch the game but looking at the line up and Johnson, Smalling, Lescott, Cleverley and Welbeck just scream average to me, throw in that Gerrard is a poor imitation of the player he was 5 years ago and Rooney is always gash for England and I'm not surprised that we can't beat a fairly decent Montenegro side. We're not good and we haven't been for about 10 years now.

No, no and no.

I'll give you that Smalling, Lescott and Welbeck shouldn't be anywhere near the England team, but Johnson has been consistently great all season for us, Cleverley is really coming on (and I didn't used to rate him that much) and Gerrard was one of the best players in the Euros last year, let alone just for us. Plus the fact he's been in top form for us since about November. Yeah, he's not what he was five years ago, but "poor imitation?" Not a chance.

Every time I see Johnson play he's been awful defensively, the only positive is he occasionally makes these great recovery tackles that he wouldn't have to make if his positioning wasn't awful.

I've yet to be impressed by Cleverley, his final ball seems very average. I doubt he'd be getting a look in for any other country in the top 10 and he probably wouldn't get an England look in if it weren't for who he played for.

Gerrard I can accept, he did have a great euros and this has probably been his best season for a few years. On current form I'd probably pick him but he isn't the world class player he once was.