The Penn State Scandal

[Maxx]

Zero, the problem is when you say "the university" you really only mean a few select individuals. For instance, if the head of security at Penn State had no knowledge of any of this, why would he see to it that Sandusky is barred from campus? There would be no reason for it. If his superiors don't hand down such a ruling, he'd have no reason to carry it out. That's just one example. You're painting with too wide a brush when you say "The university" and it unfairly implies that many completely innocent people were involved. Unless of course you actually believe everyone at Penn State knew about Sandusky's behavior.

[zero]

Yes, I am referring to those who knew, but they are university representatives and we're talking about crimes that took place on university property. Crimes that were committed under the guise of charity activity by a man who had unfettered access to the facilities. No, the head of security did not know, but that's not the point. Paterno and others did and allowed it to continue, all to protect their own asses. Does the school not bear some kind of responsibility for putting these people in charge? Whether they were implicit or not, their employees created this environment and it went on for over a decade.

And I guaran-damn-tee a lot more people knew about this than just the ones who have been named and/or fired.

[Meacon Keaton]

I can't help but think if a lot of people knew about this, it wouldn't have stayed covered up for so long. I mean, that's usually how it stays covered up.

[Maxx]

Well if we want a juicy, full blown cover up story, might as well mention that the District Attorney who decided not to prosecute Sandusky in 1998 was declared dead in July because he's been missing since 2005. His laptop hard drive was found in a river near where his car was found parked, too water damaged to read.

[zero]

I can't help but think if a lot of people knew about this, it wouldn't have stayed covered up for so long. I mean, that's usually how it stays covered up.

There are at least nine victims, other friends of victims and potential victims who had an idea, but weren't directly abused. Each of these kids have at least one parent or guardian. Authorities were alerted in 1998 and they declined to press charges. Two Penn State officials have been charged with failing to report the crimes. The eyewitness who discovered the rape in 2002. Paterno knew. The athletic director knew. Graham Spanier knew something. At the bare minimum, we're up to at least two dozen people who had to have had some kind of suspicion or were told that something was up with Sandusky and children. And it took until this week for something to be done about it.

And that's not even getting into the rumors about the child prostitution ring.

[DAv]

Well if we want a juicy, full blown cover up story, might as well mention that the District Attorney who decided not to prosecute Sandusky in 1998 was declared dead in July because he's been missing since 2005. His laptop hard drive was found in a river near where his car was found parked, too water damaged to read.

To be fair, I believe he had brought down some drug runners beforehand so it might have been more revenge as opposed to anything to do with this.

[Guest mr. potato head]

Penn State's enrollment is, give or take, 94,000. They have 8,800 academic staff. I can't find a number for non-academic staff but let's say it's the same (almost assuredly a lowball). You're up over 110,000 people now.

Zero has identified 24, the majority of whom wouldn't actually count towards that figure. To say the whole school should be shuttered for this is ridiculous. Punish those who knew and leave the rest to do what they've been doing.

[Quom]

The thing I think missing from Sousa's post is this:

Mandated reporters are required to report instances of suspected child abuse or maltreatment only when they are presented wth reasonable cause to suspect child abuse or maltreatment in their professional roles.

If Paterno heard a rumour he did what his guidelines stated he should do. I'm someone who works with these children. Like every fucking day. I see what abuse does to these children and the impact it has on their lives. I am hyper vigilant of my own behaviour and how others present due to this.

But if I was in the lunch room and someone said "I think creepy IT guy fucks children" I'd ask what made them think that, if they didn't tell me anything solid or only enough for me to think maybe it could be true but it still sounds like a rumour, then I'd take it to management and report to them. Because I know that A.) they are mandatory reporters as well. B.) They probably have more power and ability to protect children from this person than I do C.) I know that if I stick in a report it won't go anywhere as all I have is conjecture with no dates, name of potential victim, or anything at all to report really.

This is the issue. Nobody seems to know what Paterno was aware of. Obviously the assistant who walked in on him fucking the kid should have straight away called the police. Anyone who was then told by him should have either called the police or child protection (I think mandatory reports go to Child Protection in America as well who then call the police).

But if all he knew were rumours with no factual knowledge or basis for complaint then there is zero expectation for him to report.

When I was in high school there were at least four male teachers who all of the girls used to say were molesters. I really don't believe that they were. If I was teaching at the school do I put in a report on all of them based on what these girls used to talk about?

That's the issue. If he knew nothing besides half formed rumour then there is no more he should, or could have done. Well there is, he could have kept a really close eye on him and made sure he wasn't alone with children, as much for the protection of him as for the children.

All of this hand wringing and should have done is quite touching. But it's not based on the facts as we currently have them. I have absolutely no knowledge of this school or system. I have no bias. But as someone who works in a system with vulnerable children I'd really fucking hate to find myself being bitched about on a forum this way if I took a rumour to my management (who it sounds like did have a much more complete picture) and people wanted me dead because of their inaction rather than my own.

If it turns out he knew more than just half rumour then yes he's a cunt and this is all justified. But if he was in a bubble (which does happen frequently, it's not hard to be completely out of the loop with these things, plenty of child fuckers have wives/husbands who have no idea) then Paterno did everything that could be asked of him.

This is a fucking tragedy and the college as well as the police or campus police or whoever it was who were previously aware should be lined up and shot. If Paterno needs to be an innocent victim in an effort to make sure the slate is wiped clean then it's unfortunate but better than there being suspicion about his level of involvement.

But to single him out when thus far it seems as if he's the person that knew the least about all of this crap, doesn't make one lick of sense to me.

[Plubby]

Quom, that was a really awesome post. (Couldn't word my response any better than that. Wrote it about seven times.)

[Evil Chase K]

This has been a horrible week for me and other Penn State alums that I know. I've felt sick almost non-stop. I still can't quite come to grips with what happened. Or why it was allowed to happen.

My fond memories of my time at University Park are now stained forever and that's hard to get over.

And the fact that the Board of Trustees did the right thing by firing Spanier and Paterno while as of this moment not doing a damn thing about Michael McQueary is absolutely infuriating.

And the sad thing is it's only going to get worse. Fuck.

[Jimmy]

I like Quom's non-gimmick posts, that was a fantastic reponse. The only way I heard about this story was through this topic and I've been very interested in finding out the details about the case. The whole thing is fucking disgusting - and presumably saving the school's rep in favour of keeping this man out of jail is wrong beyond words.

The only thing about your post Quom, is that if the coach didn't know very much, or had only heard a rumour, surely he would've prosted that in the past few days. I don't know enough about the situation, but that was a question that popped into my head.

The whole thing is a tragedy though and I hope the victims recieve plenty of support and a suitable settlement, because they have every right to sue those involved (but don't call me on that, I'm no lawyer.)

[zero]

To say the whole school should be shuttered for this is ridiculous.

Again, outside of my original statement, which I've already conceded was an exaggeration, that's not what I'm saying. Unless you're saying the school shouldn't be sued for the actions of these few, which is my actual point.

Getting into repeating myself territory now though, so I'm just gonna let it go.

[Evil Chase K]

If I were still a student there I'd be disgusted that part of my tuition was going to fund Athletic Director Tim Curley's defense.

[Quom]

I like Quom's non-gimmick posts, that was a fantastic reponse. The only way I heard about this story was through this topic and I've been very interested in finding out the details about the case. The whole thing is fucking disgusting - and presumably saving the school's rep in favour of keeping this man out of jail is wrong beyond words.

The only thing about your post Quom, is that if the coach didn't know very much, or had only heard a rumour, surely he would've prosted that in the past few days. I don't know enough about the situation, but that was a question that popped into my head.

Hey that makes it sound like you dislike my gimmick posts

It depends. He did give an interview which was basically a "I want to keep coaching and lets put this tragedy behind us" interview a few days ago. I don't work in PR, but it may be that he's waiting for the fire to die down a little before he releases a statement about his involvement. At the moment tempers are high and people don't necessarily seem to be thinking straight. So it may be that he doesn't want to say anything on the topic for fear of whipping it up even further. It could also be because he genuinely does love the school and whilst all eyes are on him he thinks it's protecting the school. It could also be that at the moment he's having it fairly easy because there is conjecture about his involvement and if he comes forward with a denial people still won't believe it or will turn and believe he's lying, whereas if he waits for some facts to come out showing he had no involvement then it's safer/people will believe it if he comes out and says he had no involvement.

I don't really care either way, like I said if it turns out he did have reason to report then he's as much scum as everyone else. I'm just confused as to why so much of the anger is aimed at him at the moment. Especially when there are plenty of fuckers to be raging about who definitely knew what was happening. Including it seems the police.

If the police did already know and were complicit in the cover up then what would a report have achieved anyway? I'm not defending him, but if I went to management and said "Thingy told me he saw Whatsit fucking a ten year old in the showers" and management told me police were already informed and I believed this to be true, then again I'd likely not put in a report.

This is all a great big fucking mess.

Whether people want to admit it or not this is a poison for the entire school and anyone in any position of power relating at all to having any control of this team needs to be fired. Campus police definitely knew, which presumably means the Dean knew.

They need to clear house completely and establish a victims fund like yesterday. I'd be suspending every single person pending the completion of this investigation. If it means whole branches of the school are shut down and the Dean and the higher ups are also removed and a caretaker put in place then so be it.

This is the inaction which is inexcusable. Currently the perception is that the cover up is continuing and that the entire college is complicit with the rapes. It's why Paterno is the wrong target. He's just a link on the chain and potentially the strongest as far as his in/action goes. Why not look to the higher ups who must have known something was happening and focus on them? It is beyond any level of believability that there hasn't been a cover up established and controlled by members of the school in a much higher position than football coach. Someone directed the campus police to bury it, I really can't see a football coach having that sort of authority.

[Evil Chase K]

This is the inaction which is inexcusable. Currently the perception is that the cover up is continuing and that the entire college is complicit with the rapes. It's why Paterno is the wrong target. He's just a link on the chain and potentially the strongest as far as his in/action goes. Why not look to the higher ups who must have known something was happening and focus on them? It is beyond any level of believability that there hasn't been a cover up established and controlled by members of the school in a much higher position than football coach. Someone directed the campus police to bury it, I really can't see a football coach having that sort of authority.

President Graham Spanier lost his job because of this, as he should have. The moment I read that he pledged "unconditional support" to Curley and Schultz I wanted him fired.

Paterno had to go now in order to squash the impression that at Penn State football means more than anything else.

Curley and Schultz, to me, are the main culprits behind any cover-up. I think that's pretty evident.

As for Mike McQueary, that piece of shit better not be coaching on Saturday or it will be an absolute travesty.

Edited November 11, 2011 by Evil Chase K

[Quom]

You cannot run any sort of appropriate investigation whilst anyone who may be involved remains at the college. Even if you could, from a PR perspective it's a stupid idea. Send them all the fuck home, get an independent team in ASAP to investigate and then make all findings completely transparent.

This sacrificial lamb shit is complete and utter bullshit and is a cover up of a cover up. The only way anyone will ever move forward is if they are completely assured that there has been a thorough and unbiased investigation with an inability for things to be hidden and that anyone with any level of accountability for this fucking atrocity has been removed.

It's why the entire Catholic Church is now synonymous with child fucking. Covering up a cover up is just as bad as allowing it to continue as you aren't removing the people who thought that this behaviour was acceptable or could be weighed against the perps achievements and be found to be less important, so what's to stop it happening again?

The fact a support fund for the victims wasn't announced within 30 seconds of this story breaking is fucking ridiculous.

At the moment the school sounds as if it is on its own little planet and thinks it doesn't need to be held accountable for anything which happens within its gates. I would honestly pull my child out if they attended. Then sue them for failure to provide adequate protection and failure to meet the minimum standards of a duty of care and that's if my child was college age. The school is heading down a horrible path, they may remain in existence but people have long fucking memories.

[zero]

According to NBC News, Joe Paterno has hired a criminal defense attorney.

Yeah, this story is going to get a lot worse before it gets better.

[Evil Chase K]

You cannot run any sort of appropriate investigation whilst anyone who may be involved remains at the college. Even if you could, from a PR perspective it's a stupid idea. Send them all the fuck home, get an independent team in ASAP to investigate and then make all findings completely transparent.

This sacrificial lamb shit is complete and utter bullshit and is a cover up of a cover up. The only way anyone will ever move forward is if they are completely assured that there has been a thorough and unbiased investigation with an inability for things to be hidden and that anyone with any level of accountability for this fucking atrocity has been removed.

Agreed.

The fact a support fund for the victims wasn't announced within 30 seconds of this story breaking is fucking ridiculous.

To be fair Penn State students are raising money for victims of child abuse.

At the moment the school sounds as if it is on its own little planet and thinks it doesn't need to be held accountable for anything which happens within its gates. I would honestly pull my child out if they attended. Then sue them for failure to provide adequate protection and failure to meet the minimum standards of a duty of care and that's if my child was college age. The school is heading down a horrible path, they may remain in existence but people have long fucking memories.

I disagree 100% with that first sentence. They've fired the university president. They've fired the face of the football program. The VP of Business was forced back into retirement. Outside of Athletic Director Tim Curley, the Board of Trustees is in the process of purging the responsible parties and they've formed a committee to investigate the incident to see if anyone knowingly covered it up and if anyone else was involved.

What more do you want them to do?

Your child would be absolutely safe at Penn State. State College is literally one of the safest cities in America. What happened was horrible, disgusting, and everyone involved should not only find themselves rotting in prison but burning in hell.

But you're acting like State College is fucking Venezuela and people are getting kidnapped every minute.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that you shouldn't blame the college as a whole for the actions of a few despicable people. Penn State is more than the sums of it's parts. It's more than a football team, a legendary coach, or a fucked up Athletic Department.

There are so many good things about Penn State that will be overlooked by everyone from this point on, and rightfully so, but please don't let the actions of a few awful scumbags ruin the reputation and identity of an entire University.

Maybe I'm overreacting and that's not what you're doing. If so, I apologize. It's been a rough week.

[Plubby]

According to NBC News, Joe Paterno has hired a criminal defense attorney.

Yeah, this story is going to get a lot worse before it gets better.

That could just be a precaution. If I were a law firm i'd charge JoePa a lot more after he had been charged with a crime...maybe he's getting in before his fees skyrocket, just in case something does go down?

Unlikely, but plausible.

[zero]

I'm sure it's a precautionary measure, but I'm also pretty confident it means more shit is about to go down.