The Penn State Scandal

[zero]

I read the entire presentation the grand jury earlier today and literally felt sick to my stomach. As uncomfortable and horrifying as it is, it should be reported in explicit detail so the media stops with sterile phrases like "sex scandal." Anthony Weiner was a sex scandal, this is no sex scandal:

As the graduate assistant put the sneakers in his locker, he looked in the shower. He saw a naked boy, Victim 2, whose age he estimated to be ten years old, with his hands against the wall, being subjected to anal intercourse by a naked Sandusky.

EVERYONE involved with the Penn State football team should be fired. The entire program should be shut down and its $450 million worth should be donated to the victims, their families, and charities of their choice.

And Paterno is a fucking coward. He's always supposedly been this "stand-up guy" who "molds boys into men." Whatever, he's just lucky no charges will be brought against him.

[NobBe Nobbs]

He saw a naked boy, Victim 2, whose age he estimated to be ten years old, with his hands against the wall, being subjected to anal intercourse by a naked Sandusky.

Just quoting this again so Paterno apologists can read it and realise what a sick cunt their saviour was protecting.

I will differ from Zero in saying that there's no reason for the programme itself to be shut down, because the guys on the team had nothing to do with this and it's ridiculous to punish them for something they had no part in. Aside from that, though, clean sweep is needed.

[zero]

The players did nothing wrong, but neither did a lot of Enron employees, doesn't mean Enron should still exist.

Penn State football will forever be the child rape team. Their players will shower in the same place where a 10 year old boy was anally raped by one of its coaches. They will continue to make millions upon millions upon millions of dollars despite a systematic cover-up of child rape not seen since the Catholic Church. On second thought, to hell with just the football program, bulldoze the entire university.

I guarantee this, or something similar, is happening in more than a dozen colleges across the country. Make an example out of Penn State and I bet we'll see this kind of protection dry up really fucking quick.

[Summers]

I obviously have zero interest in the school or staff, so I'm not an apologist or supporting anyone, just wondering a few things.. but how was he protecting him? He did inform his higher ups, didn't he? Yes, it's all horrible and disgusting. And this behaviour has no place in this world.. but the animal is the man who committed the acts. As for whoever the guy was who WITNESSED it and did nothing - well he should be charged, fired and locked up. The fact he saw that happening and just walked out is sickening. If he was the only witness then it was only him who could have really done anything right? Had the head coach gone to the police without proof, would anything have happened?

I don't know or understand the law, so it's more just asking. The head coach guy, he went to his higher ups, said he'd heard it was happening.. then nothing happened? What happened with the guy who saw it? Did he not confirm the story? What eventually leaked that has brought all this tumbling down? Surely people higher than this coach would have been the ones covering it all up.. are they gonna be fired? Is the witness fella fired and in trouble?

[Maxx]

Jesus fucking christ Zero, calm the fuck down.

Sandusky is disgusting child molester who happened to be a football coach at Penn State. That's as far as the association with the team goes. The players, the students, the faculty, they all had nothing to do with it and don't deserve to be painted with such a wide brush. They will never be the "Child Rape Team" because THE TEAM had nothing to do with it. I don't disagree with you very often and I don't think I've ever called you out on anything, but I will on a statement like that. That was just fucking asinine, Zero.

It was a cover up by the AD, the vice president, the president and yes, in a way, Paterno himself. They're all gone now, and they'll be receiving punishment for their role in it. The rest of Penn State, especially those not involved with football at all, are completely innocent in all of this and deserve no share of the blame. You are having the same reaction to this that people had after 9/11, wanting to kill all Muslims. Take a goddamn step back, you're much smarter than that.

[Fait Accompli]

The fact that Sandusky was allowed to have access to campus as recent as a week ago (at least that's what I heard) given what they knew in the years after the incident is just ridiculous.

[zero]

you're much smarter than that.

EWB needs to trademark this condescending catchphrase. Okay, I'm being slightly hyperbolic, I figure after eight years, that would be well-known by now. But let's dig deeper.

This is nothing like 9/11 and "kill all Muslims," because not all Muslims perpetrated 9/11, but a very significant portion of the higher-ups at Penn State knew about this and allowed it to continue for nine goddamn years. That's after years of rape was already going on and considering Paterno has known Sandusky since the 1960s, I'm sure people figured out something was going on before 2002. And when they learned what happened in the shower, all they did was take away his locker keys? Really? And he still had access to the facilities as of Sunday? They still had a friggin' ice cream named after the guy in the cafeteria!

This is much more like the rampant sexual abuse from Catholic priests, and yes, I do think the entire Catholic Church should've been shut down over that too. This crime is absolutely inexcusable and Penn State deserves to feel serious financial pain. Obviously "bulldoze the entire college" is an exaggeration, but I will have no issue with the victims suing this school into oblivion. PSU knew, did nothing and allowed this man to use a charity organization as a front to funnel in his next victim... on campus, no less. How do you justify or come back from that?

Honestly, and this is no hyperbole: I could not give a shit what happens to this school. They made their bed when they protected this guy:

As the graduate assistant put the sneakers in his locker, he looked in the shower. He saw a naked boy, Victim 2, whose age he estimated to be ten years old, with his hands against the wall, being subjected to anal intercourse by a naked Sandusky.

I know, I know... it's football, the most sacred of America's cows, but crazy people like me tend to think the systematic cover up of child fucking trumps it. Yes, it's even more important than protecting our Joe Paterno hero fetish.

If this shit happened at Burger King, there wouldn't be a Burger King this time next year. What makes Penn State so special?

[Maxx]

It's a completely isolated incident! You're damning an entire university over the actions on one man who was a part of ONE program. We have no idea how many people knew, but everyone who was confirmed to be involved in a cover up has been sacked. You want to shut down the academic side of the biggest university in the United States because of what a few people in the football program did? That's insane. Stop acting like this was some university wide cover up that involved every single faculty and staff member.

If this shit happened at Burger King, there wouldn't be a Burger King? Yeah, there would. Because they'd fire the person responsible and all those responsible for covering it up, and move on. Which is exactly what Penn State is going to do. People wouldn't stop going to Burger King because of the action of one man, or a small group of people. They're not going to assume molestation comes with every kid's meal at every location, because that's a fucking stupid thing to assume. Just like no one is going to assume Penn State is Child Molester U now.

[Sousa]

It was a cover up by the AD, the vice president, the president and yes, in a way, Paterno himself.

The diminution of Paterno's role in all of this makes me think that maybe Zero didn't make this clear enough. Maybe it's because Zero isn't an employee of a state-funded public university. I am. Let me explain to you how this works. I think you know, but I don't think you understand the full ramifications.

If I find out that there is sexual misconduct in my school system at 8:00, I report it to authorities at 8:01. Not university authorities--police authorities. If I do not practice due diligence in this way, I go to federal pound-me-in-the-ass prison.

Okay? I am a part-time university employee, I teach a couple freshman composition classes, and I've been doing so in a post-graduate capacity for about a year and a half, and I understand this. It's not a university policy; it's the law. And it's a good, just, fair, reasonable law that's designed to protect victims.

Paterno shouldn't be sitting in retirement having students riot and the media talk about how this affects his "legacy." Paterno should be in jail. The university authorities should be in jail. What must happen here is, at the very least, a large-scale purging of the rolls. I don't know if "shutter the university" is the solution, but the top brass at Penn State should be completely different depending on how deep the rabbit hole goes here. That Sandusky committed such a travesty is a horrible crime, but that's a given.

What, for some reason, doesn't seem to be a given is that being complicit in his actions for a whole goddamn decade isn't a crime. It is.

[Gazz]

I go to federal pound-me-in-the-ass prison.

Poor choice of wording there, given the situation...

[Sousa]

It's from Office Space! Haven't any of you seen Office Space? Geeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeez.

[Maxx]

I'm not saying it isn't, my initial position on Paterno was quite wrong. I'm saying it's absolutely ridiculous to say the university needs to be shut down, when odds are that only people directly involved in the football program had any idea what was going on. There's thousands of people employed by that university who had nothing to do with it, they don't deserve to be punished for it. You're example doesn't demonstrate what I'm saying Sousa. Say you were teaching at composition classes at Penn State, you have zero connections to the scandal, should you be afraid of losing your job over this scandal? No, because that'd a completely ridiculous idea.

I completely agree with you about Paterno's role, I think its absolutely insane that McQuery hasn't been fired, especially if Paterno was. The old AG of Pennsylvania should be arrested for never following through on charges in 1998. But that's not what I'm here yelling at Zero over, I'm annoyed that he's advocating punishing thousands over the actions of a few.

[zero]

It would've been an isolated incident if the authorities were alerted in 2002. They weren't and how many more kids had to endure this nightmare because of it? They say the cover-up is often worse than the crime, and while that's not true in this case for Sandusky, it's certainly true for Penn State, the university. They could've done the right thing nine years ago, but the people they trusted to run these programs are now responsible for gross criminal negligence. Simply firing those responsible is obviously the right call, but that doesn't absolve the university of what happened on their watch.

Again "shutting down" was hyperbolic, but yes, I do believe the victims have every right to sue the everloving shit out of the school and take a massive chunk out of the football program's $450 million. And if that trickles down to the rest of the university, so be it.

And that's what the whole issue is about. Key members of the administration turned a blind eye and allowed this to continue in order to protect that $450 million brand. Gotta protect the team, gotta protect the school, gotta protect the "legendary" Joe Paterno. Yet no one wanted to protect the (at least) nine victims of rape.

Jerry Sandusky is obviously a very, very sick man. I'm not even remotely defending his actions and he should spend the rest of his life in prison, but something is wrong with his mind. There's nothing wrong with Joe Paterno's mind though, or any of the other people who knew or had suspicions, they were just out to protect their money, fame and power. And yeah, I have serious problem with that.

[Sousa]

The 94,300 students at Penn State won't disappear. They'll have to go somewhere else. Penn State's loss would be other schools' gain.

Again, I'm not saying shutter the place because I don't know how deep the scandal goes yet (still in the "seriously, the fucking students rioted over this?" portion of my outrage), but the fact that this Onion article isn't necessarily even wrong is a big part of the problem, and predicating your argument on "ALL OF THESE GUYS ARE GUILTY... and yeah, Paterno, too. A little. Maybe!" isn't helping.

EDIT: Okay, it went to the goddamn university president? God damn. Okay. This school has serious institutional problems on a fundamental level.

[Maxx]

Zero, do you think this is something that was talked about behind closed doors and discussed at board of trustee meetings or something? Of course it wasn't. There were a limited amount of people who knew about it so they could keep a lid on the whole thing. If the CEO of Burger King is a serial killer and no one in the company knows about it, should the whole company be shut down when he's found out? No. The president of the university let it happen under his watch and he's been fired for it. You can't chastise the entire university for letting it happen when 99% of the university didn't even know it was happening.

I'm not saying anyone is wrong about Paterno, or that the idea of protecting the team and the school reputation is somehow right. I'm don't agree with either of those statements. What I have a problem with is somehow making this isolated incident reflect on the entire university. That's not right, at all.

The only defense I would ever give to Paterno is that many people failed even worse than he did, well before he did. 2002 never should have happened, but somehow Sandusky, despite admitting to carrying out these acts in 1998 never got charged.

The law enforcement tree is more disgusting to me than the majority of the Penn State tree. Everyone failed, but law enforcement failed first. But it's Paterno who is now bearing the brunt of it, because he's the highest profile person involved. Yes, he has he share of the blame, but the goddamn police didn't do anything before Paterno was even involved, where's the outrage about that?

Edit: Sousa, of course it went to the University president, because he has a hand in the athletic department. But I really doubt he was running around telling people about it, so I doubt more people are involved the cover up. If it turns out to be university wide, then yeah, there needs to be harsh punishments doled out on the entire university. But if it's contained to the athletic department, then the rest of the school shouldn't have to suffer for that. And no, in this sense the President does not represent the university as a whole.

[naiwf]

I obviously have zero interest in the school or staff, so I'm not an apologist or supporting anyone, just wondering a few things.. but how was he protecting him? He did inform his higher ups, didn't he? Yes, it's all horrible and disgusting. And this behaviour has no place in this world.. but the animal is the man who committed the acts. As for whoever the guy was who WITNESSED it and did nothing - well he should be charged, fired and locked up. The fact he saw that happening and just walked out is sickening. If he was the only witness then it was only him who could have really done anything right? Had the head coach gone to the police without proof, would anything have happened?

I don't know or understand the law, so it's more just asking. The head coach guy, he went to his higher ups, said he'd heard it was happening.. then nothing happened? What happened with the guy who saw it? Did he not confirm the story? What eventually leaked that has brought all this tumbling down? Surely people higher than this coach would have been the ones covering it all up.. are they gonna be fired? Is the witness fella fired and in trouble?

Let's just make this simple. If you went to work/school/home and saw a 10 year old getting raped, would your full responsibility be to alert the legal authorities or your boss/principal/older brother? ANYONE in the chain of command that didn't immediately alert the police deserves to be charged with covering up every act that Sandusky committed on PSU grounds. We're talking about a little kid getting sodomized here. If you don't go straight to the cops for that, you should rot. Period.

Edited November 10, 2011 by naiwf

[Meacon Keaton]

The Board of Trustees are going through and firing everyone that had their hand in this, though. It's not like they're like "My bad" and carrying on.

It doesn't justify them covering this up for so long, but at least they're ridding of anyone involved.

I'm all for the victims suing the University, as well. But you can't shut down an entire University over something a handful of people had their hands in. You do what they're doing. Getting rid of those involved and attempt to start anew.

[naiwf]

The Board of Trustees are going through and firing everyone that had their hand in this, though. It's not like they're like "My bad" and carrying on.

It doesn't justify them covering this up for so long, but at least they're ridding of anyone involved.

I'm all for the victims suing the University, as well. But you can't shut down an entire University over something a handful of people had their hands in. You do what they're doing. Getting rid of those involved and attempt to start anew.

I don't know that they should, but every single victim should sue PSU, Spanier, Paterno, Sandusky, McQueery (sp?) and everyone else for millions upon millions of dollars and if that bankrupts the school, so be it. The football program should probably just expect that this will be a non sanctioned death penalty as well. No one will be able to stop future recruits from hearing about Pedophile State University.

[Maxx]

It's a public university though, so it'll be quite difficult to sue it out of existence. I'd imagine the state of Pennsylvania will just arrange large settlements with the victims' families, especially if the old attorney general gets charged.

[zero]

If the CEO of Burger King is a serial killer and no one in the company knows about it, should the whole company be shut down when he's found out?

But if the CEO of Burger King is a serial killer, and is being protected by key people within the company to protect the brand, and the guy just keeps killing people? Yeah, Burger King's going down when the story comes out. Especially if it's discovered that the company was allowing him to funnel victims through the company.

Okay, hang on, this analogy is taking away from the gravity of the situation.

Sandusky is a child rapist. He was being protected by people within Penn State in order to protect the brand, so he just kept on raping children. And the university allowed him access to their facilities for his charity, which was basically a front for him to get access to children, so he could rape them. Now moving back to the analogy, imagine that in any other business setting. How in the hell would that business continue to operate?

Yes, a lot of innocent people will lose their jobs over it. Not all 22,000 Enron employees were committing fraud, but they lost their jobs. And again, just so we're 100% clear, I don't actually think bulldozers should roll in and flatten PSU. That is not something I literally believe and I apologize if my exaggeration brought on an unnecessary argument. But for lack of a better term, I do think the school should suffer financially. And not a little bit either.

I have read statistics that claim pedophiles average more than 100 victims over the course of their crimes. If that's even remotely true in Sandusky's case, I would have no issue with Penn State being forced to dole out hundreds of millions of dollars.